https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3281480/1#discussion

What about all of the fossil fuel necessary to build the EVs- and all of the components used in it?

There is a reason Toyota uses hybrid tech

hopeandrealchange said:

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My question for the EV fans is where is the energy going to come from?
If you are going to remove gasoline and diesel from the energy supply what do you propose to replace it?
Seems like I remember a winter storm not long ago that overwhelmed our electrical systems. The infrastructure to support all vehicles being EV is decades away.

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50% of households in America are powered by disgusting natural gas. Good thing people drive electric cars to avoid evil fossil fuels. I mean it doesn't matter how much energy it took to make the batteries or what happens to them afterwards, as long as they can try to talk smugly and down on the common man/woman just trying to make a living.

nortex97 said:

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Do you care about the planet and slavery?

Some have asked how much fuel this loader burns per hour. The Cat 994 has a 3516 engine, 16 cylinder, The tankage is approx. 1000 gals and it burns about 150 gallons per hour or 1800 gals. per 12 hour shift.

— John Lee Pettimore (@JohnLeePettim13) March 31, 2022

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Then...

1. You'll need a new battery if you keep the car over 10 years; probably over 7 years. I know people who've had their's replaced under warranty after 2-3 years.

2. Those used batteries don't just disappear. You have to dispose of them. Where?? I realize you can probably recycle SOME of the materials but you obviously can't recycle all of them yet otherwise there wouldn't be constant mining.

3. EVs have to have more electronic parts that are not only far more sensitive to things that can damage them (shorts, etc.) but are more difficult to work on and fix by the average person. I don't change my own oil, but I can. I always change my own filters, engine air and cabin air, and do a lot of routine maintenance on my vehicles. What routine maintenance can an EV owner reasonably be expected to perform?

A friend of mine owns a Tesla and another car. He's a realtor and uses the Tesla around town. He drives the other car when he leaves the general city (greater Dallas -- city and, say, first and maybe second ring suburbs) boundaries. I understand having 2 vehicles. I'd like a small, sporty SUV to go along with my pickup. But I don't want 2 CARS.

I sometime believe people hate EVs is because they are protecting the fossil industry. I irrational hatred is confusing to me. I love meat, would never be a vegetarian, but I would never argue with a vegetarian why they are wrong because there is no right or wrong.

I have a gas car and a Tesla that gets about 260 miles on typical highway real driving. I had a BMW X5 before this and I would say the comparison between both cars when it comes to size, seating, cargo space is similar.

Typical 365 dy/yr we take a 5 dy ski trip to colorado and 1 wk trip to Destin. So 3.5% of the year, a gas car is by far more logical.

I drive from Austin to SA or BCS about 3 times a month and never need to charge for a round trip. I have a 60AMP outlet that cost $1K installed in the garage and plug it in every time I get out of the car. Its no different than turning off my gas car when I park, it just becomes instinctual.

So for 97% of the year, here is the non subjective comparisons.

1. Up front cost - Both cars costs 60K without any rebates - PUSH
2. I drive 30K/yr and save about 4K/yr with the current gas prices, and $2500/yr pre Ukraine - TESLA
3. Maintenance - I have zero maintenance vs yearly BMW would have been $200 for oil change and about 1500 for an upcoming brake bad replacement. - TESLA
4. Convenience - After 45K miles, I have stopped to super charge 3 times for a total of 40 minutes. Twice b/c I forgot to charge overnight. BMW would have needed 150 fill ups at 7 min per stop comes out to 17hrs. This is not even counting taking the car to get oil changed/brake pads - TESLA
5. Tesla Battery has lost 20mi range in 45K miles. From my research, I doubt I would need a battery change (about 7-10K) for atleast 150K+ miles. My BMWs all have had to have major engine repair/timing belts that by 100K typically costs me 5-7K. So I would give this a push so even if at worse case scenerio and I need a battery replacement, cost about the same. - PUSH

So for my family and most people I know who do not do regular long hauls, the Tesla is a much cheaper ride, more convenient .

And from a subjective standpoint, Tesla kills my BMWs in terms of tech, ride quality, fun factor. I don't really care to discuss what is more environmentally friendly, sustainable, etc b/c it just goes in circles.

Refute the subjective points, but the objective ones are hard to argue.

Honest question for the physics nerds. An ICE burns gas. An EV recharged by a grid also runs on fossil fuels, albeit burnt by the the power company.

I know different fuel types blah blah. But let's say that an ICE tank holds 10 gallons and runs 30 MPG and goes 300 miles. What is the equivalent amount of gas used by the power company to power an EV that also goes 300 miles? I understand this answer is going to have a lot of variability, feel free to use reasonable approximations.

There have been a couple of auto analysts that have recently said the industry will not have enough rare earth metals by around 2025. But when contacted, every automaker stated that won't affect them because they already have their supply locked in. We'll see if these analysts are correct or not.

Either way, the Bidens are getting paid by China. That is really why the WH has made a mad push to stop all oil drilling.

Medaggie said:

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I sometime believe people hate EVs is because they are protecting the fossil industry. I irrational hatred is confusing to me. I love meat, would never be a vegetarian, but I would never argue with a vegetarian why they are wrong because there is no right or wrong.

I have a gas car and a Tesla that gets about 260 miles on typical highway real driving. I had a BMW X5 before this and I would say the comparison between both cars when it comes to size, seating, cargo space is similar.

Typical 365 dy/yr we take a 5 dy ski trip to colorado and 1 wk trip to Destin. So 3.5% of the year, a gas car is by far more logical.

I drive from Austin to SA or BCS about 3 times a month and never need to charge for a round trip. I have a 60AMP outlet that cost $1K installed in the garage and plug it in every time I get out of the car. Its no different than turning off my gas car when I park, it just becomes instinctual.

So for 97% of the year, here is the non subjective comparisons.

1. Up front cost - Both cars costs 60K without any rebates - PUSH
2. I drive 30K/yr and save about 4K/yr with the current gas prices, and $2500/yr pre Ukraine - TESLA
3. Maintenance - I have zero maintenance vs yearly BMW would have been $200 for oil change and about 1500 for an upcoming brake bad replacement. - TESLA
4. Convenience - After 45K miles, I have stopped to super charge 3 times for a total of 40 minutes. Twice b/c I forgot to charge overnight. BMW would have needed 150 fill ups at 7 min per stop comes out to 17hrs. This is not even counting taking the car to get oil changed/brake pads - TESLA
5. Tesla Battery has lost 20mi range in 45K miles. From my research, I doubt I would need a battery change (about 7-10K) for atleast 150K+ miles. My BMWs all have had to have major engine repair/timing belts that by 100K typically costs me 5-7K. So I would give this a push so even if at worse case scenerio and I need a battery replacement, cost about the same. - PUSH

So for my family and most people I know who do not do regular long hauls, the Tesla is a much cheaper ride, more convenient .

And from a subjective standpoint, Tesla kills my BMWs in terms of tech, ride quality, fun factor. I don't really care to discuss what is more environmentally friendly, sustainable, etc b/c it just goes in circles.

Refute the subjective points, but the objective ones are hard to argue.

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You started with feelings and ended with horrible analyses lacking any depth.

BEV's on a broad global transition have a huge cost which will be borne by the planet and 'western' countries. I'd recommend you consider that broadly, and research it if you have the capacity to do so, instead of demagoguery against those who have a different viewpoint as to the efficacy of such a move.

I certainly don't' 'hate' BEV drivers, but I do think they are largely ignorant as to how their vehicles are created/supply chains and the costs many, many people pay to support their creation/infrastructure.

Recycle

I never thought I'd go the hybrid route but I just ordered the plug in Hybrid Chrysler Pacifica because neither my wife's Civic nor my Ram 1500 are suitable for our new family. Couldn't care less about the environment, only doing it because we have to take our foster kids all over for visitations and other appointment and the state doesn't cover even close to the cost of that so 85 mpg sounded pretty attractive

Not getting one, immediately try insane mode and wreck.

So don't.

94AGBQ said:

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I'll buy an electric car when I can get 500 miles on a full charge and it only takes 10 minutes to charge completely at a station when I'm on the road.

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It's gonna have to charge more quickly than that or we are going to have to build some massive fueling stations to accommodate all the cars sitting for ten minutes.

Ive been driving the little known Lexus CT-200's for over 15 years. Never a problem, 40+ MPG, never breaks down, No trickle charging. Carries a ton of stuff. as of now EV's cant touch the reliability, utility of a good Hybrid. When they get there I'll be game to buy but right now the specs are not there, yet.

I dont buy on fads, or because the MSM or gov tells me what to do. I buy on reliability, utility, functionality, and worry free driving.

I won't even start looking until they go 5,000 miles, charge in 2 mins, can pull my 15k lb dump trailer, cook me dinner and give me a beej

GAC06 said:

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94AGBQ said:

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I'll buy an electric car when I can get 500 miles on a full charge and it only takes 10 minutes to charge completely at a station when I'm on the road.

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My car could do maybe 375 miles without stopping (all highway). How many times have you travelled 500 miles, stopped for ten minutes, then travelled another 500 miles?

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Came close last week. Drove 825 miles from Atlanta, GA to College Station in 12.5 hours. Stopped only a few times -- for mere minutes -- to gas up, grab coffee, and relieve the bladder.

aggiehawg said:

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The reason why is The Hubs has a hard time keeping the lake house golf cart charged, all of his tools charged.

We have multiple 200 amps drops on the ranch. But keeping that many things charged even on a trickle cell does not work forever. They die.

Until battery tech makes a HUGE advancement, EVs are futile.

Now, tell me why I am wrong.

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Hybrids, Hawg. The optimal solution.

'03ag said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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'03ag said:

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These threads are are just an excuse to say "my use case is the only one worth considering"

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This is a ridiculous take. No one is talking about putting restrictions on EV. We just want options vs the government picking and choosing winners by sending credits to one while burdening or banning another. We're smart enough to realize there are a wide variety of use cases and want to keep all options on the table

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This response is full of projection. I'm staunchly against EV subsidies. That doesn't change the fact that this thread is full of people making use case arguments for no reason.

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You may want to educate yourself about the restrictions being put on gas vehicles, including outright bans on the way. These people are making a use case not to. You are biching just to bich, lol millenials

How much is the cheapest Tesla nowadays?

I don't understand how they can ban gas vehicles if apartments are t set up to charge EVs. That's not to mention who will be able to afford one.

We bought a new Jeep last year so we can tow a new travel trailer. We were going to sell my Lexus that has $100k miles on it, but we decided to keep it.

BuddysBud said:

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Gunny456 said:

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And just exactly how much of our tax dollars has been funneled to the auto makers for the sudden push on EV's? Anybody believing that is not happening is uneducated. Just look at the solar and wind power subsidies that we the tax payer pay for b

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Slight but relevant derailment:

Our government stopped spending tax dollars a long time ago. Now they just create money out of nothing to pay for pet projects like EVs, normal government services, and interest on the imaginary funds that they keep spending. It's almost as if our political "leaders" believe that uncontrolled spending on worthless projects manically creates more more money.

EVs might be the best vehicles in the future. If we would let the market work we likely would have better EVs or a far superior technology for transportation that is affordable, comfortable, clean, and practical.

Every time the government forces one technology over another we end up getting something worse than we would have had from free market development.

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it's called "modern monetary theory" where because the leftists are so advanced in intellect now, actual inflation does not exist when printing trillions of dollars.

because we can always print another trillion dollars.

and when that doesn't work, print another trillion dollars.

aTmAg said:

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How much is the cheapest Tesla nowadays?

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in the 40s thousand range minimum

cheap!!

Bought a pontoon boat and pulled it back to central Texas from north Texas in the wind today. My truck that normally gets 19mpg was getting 8. Sucked but I could still fill up with gas and remax my range within minutes. EVs are no where near this capable. No thanks.

Worlds ending in like 10-12 years any way right? ***k it. Smokem if you got 'em.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Plug in hybrid is the way to go. Bought a Prius Prime for son a month ago. School is 8 miles away. We have solar panels.

We filled up the prius once and it's still at 3/4 tank.

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Did your son reenact the car buying scene from Transformers? Because I feel like he should have.

This guy gets it.

I just hope my 85 plug in hybrid acts as advertised, church is 35 miles away

DannyDuberstein said:

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'03ag said:

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DannyDuberstein said:

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'03ag said:

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These threads are are just an excuse to say "my use case is the only one worth considering"

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This is a ridiculous take. No one is talking about putting restrictions on EV. We just want options vs the government picking and choosing winners by sending credits to one while burdening or banning another. We're smart enough to realize there are a wide variety of use cases and want to keep all options on the table

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This response is full of projection. I'm staunchly against EV subsidies. That doesn't change the fact that this thread is full of people making use case arguments for no reason.

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You may want to educate yourself about the restrictions being put on gas vehicles, including outright bans on the way. These people are making a use case not to. You are biching just to bich, lol millenials

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It's not my fault you haven't read the whole thread. There are people discussing the environmental impact of EVs and the merits of various policies. Those are reasonable arguments to make.

Then there are people whose whole argument boils down to "muh road trip needs" and that's dumb.

How about this, buy what is most cost effective and agreeable with your wallet.

MapGuy said:

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How about this, buy what is most cost effective and agreeable with your wallet.

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Woah woah woah. How am I supposed to show people how rich/eco friendly/hate eco friendly/rancher/lesbian/suburban mom I am with that attitude?

The whole concept of owning a vehicle is convenience and utility. You may not like the reasons because you rarely venture past the nearest starbucks, but one being significantly less convenient is a valid reason

And when it comes to that concept…your mileage may vary

Everyone go buy a Camry and stfu

Just a couple questions. Is your electricity at home free? Do electric cars not have brakes?