Cybertruck driver wearing VR headset creates a stir on social media.

https://www.unilad.com/technology/news/tesla-owner-driving-wearing-vr-headset-602071-20240204

You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

Snowbanks … the cybertruck's kryptonite.

https://www.themanual.com/auto/tesla-cybertruck-snow-performance/

A Subaru outdoes the Cybertruck off road in almost every way.

https://www.themanual.com/auto/tesla-cybertruck-vs-subaru-crosstrek/

Quote:

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In a recent YouTube video posted by VoyageATX, the stainless steel monstrosity struggled with inclines, terrain features, and even basic offroad functionality. Despite having the option to lock the rear differential in its menu, Tesla has yet to enable this feature. When the YouTuber attempted to lock his Cybertruck's diff, he was instead met with an error message and a promise he would be able to perform the action at some point in the future. The same restrictions applied to front diff locking when that was attempted.

Another nagging fault with the Cybertruck is more of a quality of life issue, but an extreme one at that. Every time the driver left the vehicle, the offroad mode would be disengaged. Said driver would then have to go through the menus and re-enable it before setting off again. As with the differential problems, a lot of these issues will likely be fixed with a software update. But given the marketing for the Cybertruck saw it doubling as a boat and blasting across rivers - its inability to handle a trail is likely a slap in the face to the customers who spent years sitting on a pre-order.

The Subaru, which again starts at just over $30,000, ate every challenge thrown at it without any problems. Its performance was so good that it received compliments from the video host and the Tesla Cybertruck owner himself.

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Devastating. Funny, but devastating.

hph6203 said:

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You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

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I went back and reviewed that post and I did get that wrong.

I was concentrating on them singing and looking around during the song not necessarily just the hands. The not paying attention was more what I was referring to...but, the post was about the hands, so...

Mea culpa on that.

But, my point really was that they still have to be IN the loop on that system.

Ag with kids said:

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hph6203 said:

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You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

---

I went back and reviewed that post and I did get that wrong.

I was concentrating on them singing and looking around during the song not necessarily just the hands. The not paying attention was more what I was referring to...but, the post was about the hands, so...

Mea culpa on that.

But, my point really was that they still have to be IN the loop on that system.

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That is the problem with all of these systems. If people are determined, they can cheat all 17 vehicles this group reviewed. If used as a driver assist, they should make driving safer. If turned into self driving with someone playing video games, sleeping, putting on makeup whatever, they are a disaster waiting to happen.
https://www.motor1.com/news/526086/all-driver-assist-systems-test/amp/

Kansas Kid said:

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Ag with kids said:

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hph6203 said:

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You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

---

I went back and reviewed that post and I did get that wrong.

I was concentrating on them singing and looking around during the song not necessarily just the hands. The not paying attention was more what I was referring to...but, the post was about the hands, so...

Mea culpa on that.

But, my point really was that they still have to be IN the loop on that system.

---

That is the problem with all of these systems. If people are determined, they can cheat all 17 vehicles this group reviewed. If used as a driver assist, they should make driving safer. If turned into self driving with someone playing video games, sleeping, putting on makeup whatever, they are a disaster waiting to happen.
https://www.motor1.com/news/526086/all-driver-assist-systems-test/amp/

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This is what worries me with adoption of these systems. People see/hear "hands free" and think "attention free". And the companies don't help when they show people being "distracted" while driving.

And, with most things, the dumbasses will ruin it for the rest of us.

BTW, I'm a huge proponent of autonomy. I've worked with aircraft that have had high levels of autonomy and flown a ton in simulators testing it out. I'm currently working to enable it in the unmanned aircraft world (think Uber Air Taxis). So, I'm NOT a hater.

Ag with kids said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

---

I went back and reviewed that post and I did get that wrong.

I was concentrating on them singing and looking around during the song not necessarily just the hands. The not paying attention was more what I was referring to...but, the post was about the hands, so...

Mea culpa on that.

But, my point really was that they still have to be IN the loop on that system.

---

That is the problem with all of these systems. If people are determined, they can cheat all 17 vehicles this group reviewed. If used as a driver assist, they should make driving safer. If turned into self driving with someone playing video games, sleeping, putting on makeup whatever, they are a disaster waiting to happen.
https://www.motor1.com/news/526086/all-driver-assist-systems-test/amp/

---

This is what worries me with adoption of these systems. People see/hear "hands free" and think "attention free". And the companies don't help when they show people being "distracted" while driving.

And, with most things, the dumbasses will ruin it for the rest of us.

BTW, I'm a huge proponent of autonomy. I've worked with aircraft that have had high levels of autonomy and flown a ton in simulators testing it out. I'm currently working to enable it in the unmanned aircraft world (think Uber Air Taxis). So, I'm NOT a hater.

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Aircraft autonomy is so much easier even though it is three axis to worry about. No construction, pedestrians, bikes, traffic controls and essentially no concerns about other pilots.

Autonomy will eventually come for cars and it will save a ton of lives and improve the lives of those that can't drive but it will take a while. The key is to make it dumb ass proof.

Kansas Kid said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

hph6203 said:

---

You told the individual you responded to they were wrong about hands free operation. That is not clunky wording, that is being wrong.

---

I went back and reviewed that post and I did get that wrong.

I was concentrating on them singing and looking around during the song not necessarily just the hands. The not paying attention was more what I was referring to...but, the post was about the hands, so...

Mea culpa on that.

But, my point really was that they still have to be IN the loop on that system.

---

That is the problem with all of these systems. If people are determined, they can cheat all 17 vehicles this group reviewed. If used as a driver assist, they should make driving safer. If turned into self driving with someone playing video games, sleeping, putting on makeup whatever, they are a disaster waiting to happen.
https://www.motor1.com/news/526086/all-driver-assist-systems-test/amp/

---

This is what worries me with adoption of these systems. People see/hear "hands free" and think "attention free". And the companies don't help when they show people being "distracted" while driving.

And, with most things, the dumbasses will ruin it for the rest of us.

BTW, I'm a huge proponent of autonomy. I've worked with aircraft that have had high levels of autonomy and flown a ton in simulators testing it out. I'm currently working to enable it in the unmanned aircraft world (think Uber Air Taxis). So, I'm NOT a hater.

---

Aircraft autonomy is so much easier even though it is three axis to worry about. No construction, pedestrians, bikes, traffic controls and essentially no concerns about other pilots.

Autonomy will eventually come for cars and it will save a ton of lives and improve the lives of those that can't drive but it will take a while. The key is to make it dumb ass proof.

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I won't say "easier" but I will say "different". Totally different problem set to deal with. Remember, if bad things happen to UAS, then they could fall down and squish people.

As to being dumbass proof:

Quote by a forest ranger at Yosemite National Park on why it is hard to design the perfect garbage bin to keep bears from breaking into it: "There is considerable overlap between the intelligence of the smartest bears and the dumbest tourists."

Dumbass proof is the key though.

And I agree autonomy will come for cars. And I'll welcome it (as long as I can keep my stick shift).

Yogi isn't JUST "smarter than the average bear".

Quote:

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Registrations of Tesla vehicles in California dropped 10% in the last quarter of 2023, the first fall in more than three years in the state, which is one of the most important markets for the electric carmaker and considered a national trend setter.

A total of 47,592 Tesla vehicles were registered in California in the fourth quarter, compared with 52,782 a year earlier, according to data from California New Car Dealers Association.

The last time Tesla posted a year-on-year registration fall in California was the third quarter of 2020 during the COVID-19 pandemic. California accounts for about 10% of Tesla's global deliveries.

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Quote:

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Tesla's price cuts also hit the value of Teslas out on the road, which may also dissuade some potential customers, especially since many Tesla owners are repeat buyers, Guidehouse Insights analyst Sam Abuelsamid said.

"The poor residuals have probably left a lot of owners underwater on existing loans," he said.
Ongoing layoffs at tech companies located in California also may have weighed on consumer sentiment, they said.

Competition is also growing from the likes of Chevrolet, Hyundai, Mercedes-Benz and BMW, which all increased their EV market share in California last year.

During the full year of 2023, Tesla increased vehicle sales by 24.6% but lost battery market share by 10.5 percentage points, to 60.5% of EVs registered in California. Its share of the overall California car and light vehicle market rose slightly to 13%.

Tesla's Model Y and Model 3 were the top selling light truck and sedan in California for the year, respectively, by wide margins.

Consumers in California have been gravitating towards less expensive hybrid vehicles, which can run on gasoline and electric power.

Market share of vehicles with that powertrain type in California jumped to 13.3% in the fourth quarter, compared with 8.7% a year earlier.

The market share of battery electric vehicles in the state also fell to 21.1% in the fourth quarter from 22.3% in the prior three month period.

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Autoblog.

NEWS: The 2025 Porsche Taycan Charges From 8% To 80% In Just 16 Minutes https://t.co/ibSKtQR1RS

— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) February 5, 2024

Cybertruck has trouble doing donuts...

A Tesla Cybertruck’s wheel basically broke off while doing donuts. Here’s what happened. https://t.co/oKIaHXTth6 via @InsideEVs

— InsideEVs (@InsideEVs) February 5, 2024

hph6203 said:

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NEWS: The 2025 Porsche Taycan Charges From 8% To 80% In Just 16 Minutes https://t.co/ibSKtQR1RS

— Sawyer Merritt (@SawyerMerritt) February 5, 2024

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....and how much longer does it take to go from 80%-100%, I wonder...In any case, 16 minutes is 10 minutes too slow....

It is simple, you do not charge above 80% when on a road trip. Adding stops and charging in the 10% to 80% SoC range saves a lot of time.

You don't charge to 100% except when you know you're driving more than the 80% range and can do it on a slower charge rate overnight.

Leave house 380 miles of range (because you can slow charge to 100% at home before long trips)
Drive 350 miles (5 hours)
Stop and charge and relax for 16 minutes, get food, pee etc
Get in car drive for another 250 miles (3 1/2 hours)
Stop and charge 16 minutes, food, pee
Get in car and drive for 250 miles (3 1/2 hours)
Finish day 12 hours and 32 minutes, plug car in at destination and start the day with full range

Get in car with half a tank
Drive 200 miles
Fill up 6 minutes
Get in car drive 400 miles
Take piss, get food, eat for 15 minutes
Drive 250 miles and finish with half a tank


Finish day in 12 hours 21 minutes and still need to go to the gas station if you want full range to start off tomorrow.


That 11 minutes on a 12 1/2 hour day may be valuable to some people, but it rates real low on my list. Granted I'd probably shoot myself before driving 12 hours in a day.

Your assumption is you get ideal, as advertised charging. You know that with the current chargers including Tesla, you usually get slower than that for charging. I would add 25-50% to the charge time and maybe more for the Porsche because how many public chargers can deliver the KW they require for that charge rate?

I would also add that time spent getting gas is usually more than people think especially if they have multiple people on the trip. The bathroom, food and snack gathering takes 10-20 minutes for a lot of people. When I was in college and could go 10 hours without a bathroom break at a gas stop it only took 5 minutes but now, it is practically a given if I stop for gas.

Kansas Kid said:

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Your assumption is you get ideal, as advertised charging. You know that with the current chargers including Tesla, you usually get slower than that for charging. I would add 25-50% to the charge time and maybe more for the Porsche because how many public chargers can deliver the KW they require for that charge rate?

I would also add that time spent getting gas is usually more than people think especially if they have multiple people on the trip. The bathroom, food and snack gathering takes 10-20 minutes for a lot of people. When I was in college and could go 10 hours without a bathroom break at a gas stop it only took 5 minutes but now, it is practically a given if I stop for gas.

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I could easily end up spending 30 minutes stopping at a Buc-ee's if I intended to do so or not.

Sure, it's an idealized version but it's mostly just an illustration of how little of a gap there can be in a mature state. The charging infrastructure is not well distributed enough currently to reliably drive those 350 and 250 mile stretches and stop somewhere and especially get those charge rates, but it's indicative of the possibility of the technology given enough growth in the product. 16 minutes today for 72% charge is going to seem slow by the time charging infrastructure has been built out to that degree.

Tesla's current version supercharger has forward capacity of 600 kW charging even though they've only deployed it in a 250 kW capacity.


People on these threads have a tendency to claim that the current version is as good as it will get and then the next version comes out and then that's as good as it will get despite batteries being in small scale production now that blow those Porsche charging rates out of the water.

hph6203 said:

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Sure, it's an idealized version but it's mostly just an illustration of how little of a gap there can be in a mature state. The charging infrastructure is not well distributed enough currently to reliably drive those 350 and 250 mile stretches and stop somewhere and especially get those charge rates, but it's indicative of the possibility of the technology given enough growth in the product. 16 minutes today for 72% charge is going to seem slow by the time charging infrastructure has been built out to that degree.

Tesla's current version supercharger has forward capacity of 600 kW charging even though they've only deployed it in a 250 kW capacity.


People on these threads have a tendency to claim that the current version is as good as it will get and then the next version comes out and then that's as good as it will get despite batteries being in small scale production now that blow those Porsche charging rates out of the water.

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I agree the technology will get better as it does with any relatively new tech. I am sure Nortex will be here in a bit to point out there were battery cars back in 1900 but that was completely different technology and it wasn't developed after that until the last 10-20 years.

The stock keeps falling.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sap-to-stop-using-tesla-for-company-fleet-report-says-54627dbb

techno-ag said:

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The stock keeps falling.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sap-to-stop-using-tesla-for-company-fleet-report-says-54627dbb

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ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING
After that it is only twice the market cap of number 2 Toyota and 14x GM and Ford.

techno-ag said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.html

Quote:

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Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.

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Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.

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You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?

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You mean … like a computer?

You do realize you just made my point, right?

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Lol like all new cars don't have a computer. My wife's 4 yr old Mercedes wouldn't start because of a computer problem, which was fixed under warranty. My Tesla - perfect so far (coming up on one year).

BTW, got my font upgrade last night, so I am good to go!

JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.html

Quote:

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Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.

---

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Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.

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You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?

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You mean … like a computer?

You do realize you just made my point, right?

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Lol like all new cars don't have a computer. My wife's 4 yr old Mercedes wouldn't start because of a computer problem, which was fixed under warranty. My Tesla - perfect so far (coming up on one year).

BTW, got my font upgrade last night, so I am good to go!

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I'm glad you survived that major inconvenience to get the recall done. How many hours were wasted waiting on the critical repair so you could drive safely today? It took 2 days to get my last Corvette recall completed and that was after waiting 3 or 4 months for the dealer to get the parts. I assume you had a similar experience.

Kansas Kid said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.html

Quote:

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Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.

---

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Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.

---

You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?

---

You mean … like a computer?

You do realize you just made my point, right?

---

Lol like all new cars don't have a computer. My wife's 4 yr old Mercedes wouldn't start because of a computer problem, which was fixed under warranty. My Tesla - perfect so far (coming up on one year).

BTW, got my font upgrade last night, so I am good to go!

---

I'm glad you survived that major inconvenience to get the recall done. How many hours were wasted waiting on the critical repair so you could drive safely today? It took 2 days to get my last Corvette recall completed and that was after waiting 3 or 4 months for the dealer to get the parts. I assume you had a similar experience.

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Lol when I got home it said update available, do you want to install it at 1:10 am - I pushed yes (2 seconds) - was updated this morning, so instead of 2 days it took me 2 seconds. BTW, my wife's Mercedes was at the dealer a week getting her computer fixed.

JamesE4 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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JamesE4 said:

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techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.html

Quote:

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Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.

---

---

Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.

---

You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?

---

You mean … like a computer?

You do realize you just made my point, right?

---

Lol like all new cars don't have a computer. My wife's 4 yr old Mercedes wouldn't start because of a computer problem, which was fixed under warranty. My Tesla - perfect so far (coming up on one year).

BTW, got my font upgrade last night, so I am good to go!

---

I'm glad you survived that major inconvenience to get the recall done. How many hours were wasted waiting on the critical repair so you could drive safely today? It took 2 days to get my last Corvette recall completed and that was after waiting 3 or 4 months for the dealer to get the parts. I assume you had a similar experience.

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Lol when I got home it said update available, do you want to install it at 1:10 am - I pushed yes (2 seconds) - was updated this morning, so instead of 2 days it took me 2 seconds. BTW, my wife's Mercedes was at the dealer a week getting her computer fixed.

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DEVASTATING.

That is 2 seconds of your life you won't ever get back.

https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/toyota-motor-reports-rise-in-quarterly-net-profit-as-sales-grew-5324042e

Save you the trouble of reading it but Toyota made record profit led by HYBRID vehicles. What do you know if you offer the consumer a reasonable product That's reliable and doesn't get you stranded people will buy it.

Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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The stock keeps falling.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sap-to-stop-using-tesla-for-company-fleet-report-says-54627dbb

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ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING
After that it is only twice the market cap of number 2 Toyota and 14x GM and Ford.

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Tell that to the stock holders. I'm sure they appreciate their loss is still a bigger market cap. I find your white knighting amusing. "Record losses. But hey we're still bigger than the other guys!"

techno-ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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techno-ag said:

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The stock keeps falling.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/sap-to-stop-using-tesla-for-company-fleet-report-says-54627dbb

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ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING
After that it is only twice the market cap of number 2 Toyota and 14x GM and Ford.

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Tell that to the stock holders. I'm sure they appreciate their loss is still a bigger market cap. I find your white knighting amusing. "Record losses. But hey we're still bigger than the other guys!"

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If someone was dumb enough to buy it at the speculative top when it was valued at north of $1T and unbelievably high valuation multiples, then yes they aren't happy but most shareholders have held it a lot longer than that.

If you have had it for 5 years, you have a 745% gain
10 years 1,516% gain.
If I had the stock and had those gains, then I assure you that I wouldn't be unhappy even after the pull back.

Would you like me to compare that to Ford or GM or any other car company?

PS. I still wouldn't buy the stock here because the stock is still over priced based n most valuation metrics. So are the other magnificent 7 stocks.

DDub74 said:

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https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/toyota-motor-reports-rise-in-quarterly-net-profit-as-sales-grew-5324042e

Save you the trouble of reading it but Toyota made record profit led by HYBRID vehicles. What do you know if you offer the consumer a reasonable product That's reliable and doesn't get you stranded people will buy it.

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Is that why Tesla has two of the best selling cars in the world and US?

DDub74 said:

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https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/toyota-motor-reports-rise-in-quarterly-net-profit-as-sales-grew-5324042e

Save you the trouble of reading it but Toyota made record profit led by HYBRID vehicles. What do you know if you offer the consumer a reasonable product That's reliable and doesn't get you stranded people will buy it.

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For Hawg regarding her OP, a plug in hybrid might make sense. I didn't like the hybrid I owned I don't plan to get another one because it felt like I got the worst of both worlds with mine but I know people who really like theirs.

Teslag said:

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DDub74 said:

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https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/toyota-motor-reports-rise-in-quarterly-net-profit-as-sales-grew-5324042e

Save you the trouble of reading it but Toyota made record profit led by HYBRID vehicles. What do you know if you offer the consumer a reasonable product That's reliable and doesn't get you stranded people will buy it.

---

Is that why Tesla has two of the best selling cars in the world and US?

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… At the expense of profits? They're HODL to their market share by cutting prices right and left. Hertz and other fleet buyers are abandoning them because they can't get their money back on the trade in market.

And yet Teslas margins are better than the legacy carriers.

techno-ag said:

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Teslag said:

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DDub74 said:

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https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/toyota-motor-reports-rise-in-quarterly-net-profit-as-sales-grew-5324042e

Save you the trouble of reading it but Toyota made record profit led by HYBRID vehicles. What do you know if you offer the consumer a reasonable product That's reliable and doesn't get you stranded people will buy it.

---

Is that why Tesla has two of the best selling cars in the world and US?

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… At the expense of profits? They're HODL to their market share by cutting prices right and left. Hertz and other fleet buyers are abandoning them because they can't get their money back on the trade in market.

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Far from the first company to take advantage of scale to dominate their market. Anyone who didn't realize prices of new products was going to come down in a relatively new market with rapid innovation and rapidly growing scale didn't use their brain. Musk was clear from a long time ago that his model was to start with high prices and then drop them as the production costs went down.

What Hertz was thinking is beyond me. Putting EVs into a rental fleet other than a few token cars is corporate malpractice.