It's interesting/amusing to me that the pro-CCP EV crowd now retorts simply with, in essence "meh, Tesla is great (All others are crap), and yet also the CCP will also build/ship/sell a lot of BEV's so obviously the market is moving to BEV's and it has nothing to do with politics/subsidies/mandates/global warming."
I will never buy an electric powered vehicle.
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Last: 4 days ago by techno-ag
Never argued for EVs from a political or environmental standpoint. It is a pure cost reduction/convenience standpoint.
I don't claim that BEVs from other manufacturers are universally crap (though some of them surely are), but rather that there is an undeniable gap in the total experience of owning a Tesla and a non-Tesla. That gap exists between Tesla and Ford and between Tesla and BYD. The difference is that Ford is attempting to sell their vehicles at a comparable price while providing an inferior product, whereas manufacturers like BYD are going to undercut both.
That gap exists in support infrastructure (charging, where all non-Tesla vehicles presently fail) and in software (where most fail). From an infrastructure perspective Tesla is opening up their charging network and is expanding it on their own and through partners. From a software perspective I have very little faith any of the legacy auto manufacturers will match Tesla.
The market is about tradeoffs and some people will choose a worse experience for a cheaper price, they won't choose a worse experience for the same price.
I am in no way cheering the arrival of Chinese EVs. I will never buy one. I'd much prefer Ford/GM/VW succeed in their EV efforts, but they are trailing Tesla in competency and trailing China in price. That's a formula for failure.
I don't claim that BEVs from other manufacturers are universally crap (though some of them surely are), but rather that there is an undeniable gap in the total experience of owning a Tesla and a non-Tesla. That gap exists between Tesla and Ford and between Tesla and BYD. The difference is that Ford is attempting to sell their vehicles at a comparable price while providing an inferior product, whereas manufacturers like BYD are going to undercut both.
That gap exists in support infrastructure (charging, where all non-Tesla vehicles presently fail) and in software (where most fail). From an infrastructure perspective Tesla is opening up their charging network and is expanding it on their own and through partners. From a software perspective I have very little faith any of the legacy auto manufacturers will match Tesla.
The market is about tradeoffs and some people will choose a worse experience for a cheaper price, they won't choose a worse experience for the same price.
I am in no way cheering the arrival of Chinese EVs. I will never buy one. I'd much prefer Ford/GM/VW succeed in their EV efforts, but they are trailing Tesla in competency and trailing China in price. That's a formula for failure.
You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
Yeah but this one was DEVASTATING. Do you know how dangerous it is to have the wrong font size on your display? I'm glad Tesla doesn't let the user choose the font size or could you imagine what irresponsible young drivers could do with that? I am so glad we have Big Brother government looking out for us.JamesE4 said:You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
When I started this thread, I was stating my opinion on how EVs do not work for people in certain circumstances and thus had a limited consumer dynamic.
One hundred and sixteen pages later, it seems there has developed an almost religious fervor among the EV adherents. Quite amazing to me.
One hundred and sixteen pages later, it seems there has developed an almost religious fervor among the EV adherents. Quite amazing to me.
man, I have been out of the country so I don't know if mine has updated yet. I better not drive it until I am sure the font is updatedKansas Kid said:Yeah but this one was DEVASTATING. Do you know how dangerous it is to have the wrong font size on your display? I'm glad Tesla doesn't let the user choose the font size or could you imagine what irresponsible young drivers could do with that? I am so glad we have Big Brother government looking out for us.JamesE4 said:You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
Poro
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
When you started this thread (page 48-49 of the mar a Lago raid thread to be exact) you made the claim that you were on hospice, we are grateful you made that up like you did everything about EVs.
Okay whose sock is this? Just started an account to crap on me today?
aggiehawg said:
When I started this thread, I was stating my opinion on how EVs do not work for people in certain circumstances and thus had a limited consumer dynamic.
One hundred and sixteen pages later, it seems there has developed an almost religious fervor among the EV adherents. Quite amazing to me.
Anti EV people: "OMG I would never have one of these cars and they don't work for anyone"
EV owners on this thread: "We like them but govenment should stay out of it. They work for some and not others"
Anti EV poster: "OMG you have a religious devotion to these cars. "
aggiehawg said:
Okay whose sock is this? Just started an account to crap on me today?
Staff can still see the Mar a Lago thead. Very Barnsy claim around page 48-49.
You do realize you are outing yourself as a long term poster who created an account today, don't you?Three Teas said:aggiehawg said:
Okay whose sock is this? Just started an account to crap on me today?
Staff can still see the Mar a Lago thead. Very Barnsy claim around page 48-49.
Gee whiz I used the same email I used in 2007.
If the Chinese dump a bunch of low priced EVs into the market that are low priced because the CCP government subsidizes them way more than others can, then that's not "let the market decide", that's "stopping market distortion".hph6203 said:
Every time I read a story that says EVs are failing and demand is falling it becomes clear the person writing the story is being either absent minded or intentionally dishonest. Demand falling suggests that the total number of sales is declining rather than what is actually happening, which is the rate of growth is slowing.
Compare that to vehicles with combustion engines (hybrid, PHEV, or ICE) where the total number of sales was down 20% between its peak in 2017 and 2022. And yet no one seems to think that rate of reduction portends a destruction of ICE sales, but a mere 50% growth rate of EVs means they're doomed. Odd.
That is a trend that began long before supply chain issues hit during the pandemic and the only thing that maintained some level of normalcy in vehicle sales was the growth in BEVs. There has been a small reprieve in that downward trend in 2023, but BMW's CEO recently stated they do not expect that resurgence to be durable. In other words its backlog demand from an even lower than expected sales in 2022 getting pushed out into 2023 causing the increase, rather than an upward trend returning to 2017 sales volumes.
We'll see what's in store when China begins exporting BEVs to the world and whether the "let the market decide" chants will continue as 300+ mile range <$30,000 vehicles hit the market. All while ICE vehicle prices continue to rise.
BYD just purchased 9 (I believe) car carriers capable of shipping 5,000 vehicles. I think I read Chinese manufacturers in total have ordered 60. My guess is it's going to turn into "we need to protect our auto manufacturers and impose strict tariffs against Chinese manufacturers." Rather than the market will decide.
aggiehawg said:
When I started this thread, I was stating my opinion on how EVs do not work for people in certain circumstances and thus had a limited consumer dynamic.
One hundred and sixteen pages later, it seems there has developed an almost religious fervor among the EV adherents. Quite amazing to me.
Those people are insecure about their choice to go EV. IRL we had a coworker go EV several years ago. Everybody playfully teased him endlessly about it, and he tried to rationalize his decision using the same arguments the EV bros here use, but to no avail.
He now drives a hybrid.
Well, it's someone a) with an agenda and b) with a lot of time on their hands to dig into an old thread like that to try to get a gotcha and c) who is a d-bag.aggiehawg said:
Okay whose sock is this? Just started an account to crap on me today?
Hopefully this ad hom attack will be quashed quickly.
That really is not my point but thank you for the response.
And the fact someone felt the need to create a new account just to attack me personally, because they are so emotional about this issue? Baffling to me.
And the fact someone felt the need to create a new account just to attack me personally, because they are so emotional about this issue? Baffling to me.
aggiehawg said:
That really is not my point but thank you for the response.
And the fact someone felt the need to create a new account just to attack me personally, because they are so emotional about this issue? Baffling to me.
Yeah, not cool.
Thank you.Quote:
Yeah, not cool.
aggiehawg said:
That really is not my point but thank you for the response.
And the fact someone felt the need to create a new account just to attack me personally, because they are so emotional about this issue? Baffling to me.
Agreed.
You mean … like a computer?JamesE4 said:You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
You do realize you just made my point, right?
Trump will fix it.
Beta users that don't know they're Beta users...techno-ag said:You mean … like a computer?JamesE4 said:You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
You do realize you just made my point, right?
Smooth operator here.Three Teas said:
When you started this thread (page 48-49 of the mar a Lago raid thread to be exact) you made the claim that you were on hospice, we are grateful you made that up like you did everything about EVs.
Beware.
Troller trying to get me banned again. Difference being, I don't flag people for doing that. They have a personal beef with me, despite not knowing me.bobbranco said:Smooth operator here.Three Teas said:
When you started this thread (page 48-49 of the mar a Lago raid thread to be exact) you made the claim that you were on hospice, we are grateful you made that up like you did everything about EVs.
Beware.
Perhaps the same one from last time?aggiehawg said:Troller trying to get me banned again. Difference being, I don't flag people for doing that. They have a personal beef with me, despite not knowing me.bobbranco said:Smooth operator here.Three Teas said:
When you started this thread (page 48-49 of the mar a Lago raid thread to be exact) you made the claim that you were on hospice, we are grateful you made that up like you did everything about EVs.
Beware.
The "Three Teas" name implies they understand TexAgs canon...
techno-ag said:You mean … like a computer?JamesE4 said:You all do realize that a Tesla "recall" is when they push out a software update that gets automatically downloaded and installed overnight, right?techno-ag said:Thanks. There are so many recalls, at least one a week it seems like. Really you're buying a computer more than a car. A glitchy, unsafe computer.Teslag said:
ANOTHER RECALL. DEVASTATING.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/business/tesla-recall-font-size/index.htmlQuote:
Tesla is recalling 2.2 million of its vehicles on US roads because the font size of the warning lights on its display is too small, according to federal safety regulators.
You do realize you just made my point, right?
You guys really need to decide if it's a computer or a golf cart.
aggiehawg said:Troller trying to get me banned again. Difference being, I don't flag people for doing that. They have a personal beef with me, despite not knowing me.bobbranco said:Smooth operator here.Three Teas said:
When you started this thread (page 48-49 of the mar a Lago raid thread to be exact) you made the claim that you were on hospice, we are grateful you made that up like you did everything about EVs.
Beware.
Best to hit the ignore button and don't get banned.
And...let's get the thread back to where it was before Tres Tes hijacked it.
EVs could be good products but the government thumb has been on the scale to help them out for years.
Truth is, EVs suck and ICE are awesome.
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!
EVs could be good products but the government thumb has been on the scale to help them out for years.
Truth is, EVs suck and ICE are awesome.
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!
Ag with kids said:
And...let's get the thread back to where it was before Tres Tes hijacked it.
EVs could be good products but the government thumb has been on the scale to help them out for years.
Truth is, EVs suck and ICE are awesome.
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!
And yet you have the government regulator forcing a recall over font size and wanting the driver assist to be more big brother like. Funny how the anti mandate crowd is ok with this kind of government action.
If they made recalls like this on ICE vehicles there would be a bunch of posts that the government is trying to force EVs on us.
If is weird that Elon Musk and Tesla has forced supposed "conservatives" to embrace big government and Greenpeace level environmentalism.
WOW! That is your take?Teslag said:
If is weird that Elon Musk and Tesla has forced supposed "conservatives" to embrace big government and Greenpeace level environmentalism.
Kansas Kid said:Ag with kids said:
And...let's get the thread back to where it was before Tres Tes hijacked it.
EVs could be good products but the government thumb has been on the scale to help them out for years.
Truth is, EVs suck and ICE are awesome.
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!
And yet you have the government regulator forcing a recall over font size and wanting the driver assist to be more big brother like. Funny how the anti mandate crowd is ok with this kind of government action.
If they made recalls like this on ICE vehicles there would be a bunch of posts that the government is trying to force EVs on us.
Don't paint with a broad brush. Last I heard the anti-mandate crowd does not particularly care for the govt busy bodies.
V8 enthusiasts are wanting big govt and are joining Greenpeace. You serious Clark?Teslag said:
If is weird that Elon Musk and Tesla has forced supposed "conservatives" to embrace big government and Greenpeace level environmentalism.
bobbranco said:V8 enthusiasts are wanting big govt and are joining Greenpeace. You serious Clark?Teslag said:
If is weird that Elon Musk and Tesla has forced supposed "conservatives" to embrace big government and Greenpeace level environmentalism.
Yes. Just read the posts from techno ag and Nortex
mkay
Sorry about those feelz
Sorry about those feelz
bobbranco said:Kansas Kid said:Ag with kids said:
And...let's get the thread back to where it was before Tres Tes hijacked it.
EVs could be good products but the government thumb has been on the scale to help them out for years.
Truth is, EVs suck and ICE are awesome.
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!
And yet you have the government regulator forcing a recall over font size and wanting the driver assist to be more big brother like. Funny how the anti mandate crowd is ok with this kind of government action.
If they made recalls like this on ICE vehicles there would be a bunch of posts that the government is trying to force EVs on us.
Don't paint with a broad brush. Last I heard the anti-mandate crowd does not particularly care for the govt busy bodies.
So do you view worrying about font size as government busy bodies or a serious safety risk?