Janabean02 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good luck with dividing and classifying people based on race.

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keegan, that is not what I'm in favor of and, again, do not believe that is what the term is intended to do. It is your choice to see it that way. I simply do not.

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The moment you attribute certain unchangeable positives and negatives attributes (one might even call the positive attributes "privileges") to an individual based on race, that is what you will do.

So good luck dividing people by skin color. I'm sure it will work out well.

Athanasius said:

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More whites in basketball?

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Perhaps white kids don't have the same access to gyms and basketballs as black kids?
Perhaps if more whites were added to the rosters, more whites would advance?
Perhaps there is systemic black racism on the court and white kids aren't given the ball enough to gain skills?
Perhaps the rules for basketball are racist and give blacks an unfair advantage?
Perhaps coaches don't recruit white kids because they are racist?
Perhaps white kids aren't encouraged enough?

These arguments sound sort of stupid don't they?
But these are the arguments that are used by the left today to push equity

Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

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You can acknowledge its existence (there is more than one type of privilege) while disagreeing with ways it can be used unfavorably. Denying it exists is insane and unbelievable to me.

TXAGFAN said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

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You can acknowledge its existence (there is more than one type of privilege) while disagreeing with ways it can be used unfavorably. Denying it exists is insane and unbelievable to me.

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If you stipulate to things like being watched in a store or being pulled over for DWB, what are the actual impacts of this privilege of not being subject to those? What real advantage is gained by "white privilege". Wealth and attractiveness are the real privileges to be born into.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

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You can acknowledge its existence (there is more than one type of privilege) while disagreeing with ways it can be used unfavorably. Denying it exists is insane and unbelievable to me.

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If you stipulate to things like being watched in a store or being pulled over for DWB, what are the actual impacts of this privilege of not being subject to those? What real advantage is gained by "white privilege". Wealth and attractiveness are the real privileges to be born into.

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If you fit the mainstream (straight white guy), yeah wealth and physical attractiveness are the only priveleges you'd probably be aware of.

I can't speak for black people, but being tailed in a store, pulled over and possibly facing police aggression or arrest seems pretty awful to me and don't say that doesn't happen or justice system is perfect, neither side thinks that.

I hate posting this **** because people will say "I'm a victim" which is nonsense, but as a gay guy who passed as straight without anyone, even immediate family, knowing into my early 30's it's not that there are these terrible things that definitely happen. You just can't easily be on equal footing with your heterosexual peers without risk of something negative happening. That doesn't mean having a gay pride parade of decorations on your desk or making being gay your whole personality, can be as simple as not having to flip pronouns about significant other when discussing weekend (something I did) or bringing them to a holiday party if you're brave (never was). In a work setting the impact could be as extreme as losing your employment, being passed up for promotion, or even just the stigma of being "TXAGFAN the gay in the dept" vs just "TXAGFAN". Can't hide your race, but as a guy who lived in closet during 20's heard an earful on a regular basis from people who felt safe espousing their bigotry in workplace. I didn't come out professionally in any capacity until I was more or less untouchable (higher in hierarchy, not easily replaced, etc). Would I have suffered any Ill effect if I'd been out? Who knows. I know my straight buddies never had to give their girlfriend/wife coming up in conversation or bringing them to holiday party a second thought, that's an example of privilege.

Quote:

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this is an interesting post. I agree with most of what you wrote until the bolded part. that is not what is meant by 'white privilege.' It is used to highlight the benefits I am afforded living as a white person. I am not assumed to be 'from the hood,' or followed around a store because I may shoplift, or pulled over because I'm driving a nice car, or complimented when I speak intelligently, to name a few examples.

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I was followed around all the time in stores, it's called being a teenager. I've been pulled over for driving in an odd area, while cops do profile cars (you can't see the race of a driver at night time), they're more likely to wonder why someone is out and about in a certain area at a certain time of night. I've also been complimented for my elocution and vocabulary.

The funniest one is the complaint about 'speaking intelligently', because they're so desperate to find something to complain about, they claim compliments are racist. When someone compliments how you speak, it is often because your enunciation makes it easier for them to comprehend what you're saying, or because they learn something when you speak. Both are positive responses and neither are signs of racism.

As for being followed in a store, some companies take shrink more seriously than others. It's annoying to be followed, even more annoying when you're falsely accused and they don't apologize, but that isn't 'racism', it's just stupidity on the part of store security.

The difference here is that while others attribute everything that happens to them, big or small, to racism, others just look at them as individual inconveniences and go on their way.

TXAGFAN said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

---

You can acknowledge its existence (there is more than one type of privilege) while disagreeing with ways it can be used unfavorably. Denying it exists is insane and unbelievable to me.

---

If you stipulate to things like being watched in a store or being pulled over for DWB, what are the actual impacts of this privilege of not being subject to those? What real advantage is gained by "white privilege". Wealth and attractiveness are the real privileges to be born into.

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If you fit the mainstream (straight white guy), yeah wealth and physical attractiveness are the only priveleges you'd probably be aware of.

I can't speak for black people, but being tailed in a store, pulled over and possibly facing police aggression or arrest seems pretty awful to me and don't say that doesn't happen or justice system is perfect, neither side thinks that.

I hate posting this **** because people will say "I'm a victim" which is nonsense, but as a gay guy who passed as straight without anyone, even immediate family, knowing into my early 30's it's not that there are these terrible things that definitely happen. You just can't easily be on equal footing with your heterosexual peers without risk of something negative happening. That doesn't mean having a gay pride parade of decorations on your desk or making being gay your whole personality, can be as simple as not having to flip pronouns about significant other when discussing weekend (something I did) or bringing them to a holiday party if you're brave (never was). In a work setting the impact could be as extreme as losing your employment, being passed up for promotion, or even just the stigma of being "TXAGFAN the gay in the dept" vs just "TXAGFAN". Can't hide your race, but as a guy who lived in closet during 20's heard an earful on a regular basis from people who felt safe espousing their bigotry in workplace. I didn't come out professionally in any capacity until I was more or less untouchable (higher in hierarchy, not easily replaced, etc). Would I have suffered any Ill effect if I'd been out? Who knows. I know my straight buddies never had to give their girlfriend/wife coming up in conversation or bringing them to holiday party a second thought, that's an example of privilege.

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So the cost was being uncomfortable, basically? And of course, that was then and this is now; if there's even the accusation of being insensitive to a protected class, it's a full HR investigation with termination of employment on the table. Most companies have a LGBQT and allies special interest group. If there was "straight privilege" at one point, that day is not only long gone, but swung the other way to ramifications for expressing support for traditional marriage. Same for most other protected groups. If you don't agree to hire and promote based on race or gender, you're a bigot - *phobe - *ist and your career and employment are at risk.

That's your opinion, but remember you think the only privilege that exists is wealth and being attractive. So going to consider the source.

TXAGFAN said:

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That's your opinion, but remember you think the only privilege that exists is wealth and being attractive. So going to consider the source.

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I was just going on what you said. Basically, you didn't feel like you could be yourself. You didn't test that theory and suffer actual damage, but I know other anecdotes where people are sure they were passed over for promotion, ostracized, etc. I don't mean to be flip about it; I am sure it was unpleasant.

I noticed you didn't address the current situation. Now you can post your "coming out" story on the company website, wear your GLAD bling and dare anyone to even think about not supporting your lifestyle. If you are a white, straight, Christian male and point out discrimination against you, you are openly mocked.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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That's your opinion, but remember you think the only privilege that exists is wealth and being attractive. So going to consider the source.

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I was just going on what you said. Basically, you didn't feel like you could be yourself. You didn't test that theory and suffer actual damage, but I know other anecdotes where people are sure they were passed over for promotion, ostracized, etc. I don't mean to be flip about it; I am sure it was unpleasant.

I noticed you didn't address the current situation. Now you can post your "coming out" story on the company website, wear your GLAD bling and dare anyone to even think about not supporting your lifestyle. If you are a white, straight, Christian male and point out discrimination against you, you are openly mocked.

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Couple thoughts…
1) HR and diversity initiatives look good on paper and the ESG report, but you know they don't necessarily reflect the tone of middle-upper management based on your own responses in this thread.
2) Yes, you're right in most F1000 companies would be problematic to bring up anything related to a persons race, sexual orientation, etc in a formal matter like hiring/firing/promotion. However, as a person who's led large departments we both know that's not how world works and there are countless things you can choose to do (or not do) that can impact a persons career trajectory. For example, maybe your bias that this person is getting special treatment for having their coming out posted on company intranet/materials for pride month impacts how much you push for their promotion.
3) "didn't feel like you could be yourself" is more taxing than you probably realize. You can't evangelize in office, that was never appropriate, but don't see any white Christian men being actively discriminated against or spoken poorly of in my offices over the last 15+ years.

Because of a couple points above and the SIGNIFICANT shift in last 5-10 years, you're right many people can more safely be out in workplace with less fear of reprisal. However, it's not foolproof.

I work in a little different capacity nowadays (was out in a prior company/role) and my sexuality just doesn't come up, ever. I avoid the topic completely as it's not worth it. I am not on some crusade for acceptance in office, I'm there to collect my check. If I develop a close relationship with a peer I evaluate it as time goes on. If they're a good enough friend to socialize outside of work like coming to my home then I'll usually let them in on it.

They don't do this at Baylor.

sicem22 said:

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They don't do this at Baylor.

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A model for athletics departments.

Janabean02 said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Janabean02 said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

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thanks for your response. I understand your perspective, but I just choose to see it another way. I actually think it helps curb the use of the term 'racist' that, imo, is used too broadly and often. When the term 'white privilege' is invoked, it is meant to be an opportunity to see the situation through another lens - which is does for me every time.

we may not agree on this topic, but I'm glad for the conversation.

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Has it, though? That certainly isn't my observation.

My parents both came off the farm in east Texas. Dad worked as a union mechanic, mom worked in the school cafeteria. They worked at the same jobs at the same wages as hispanics and african americans. Anything I have is because my parents lived conservatively to provide opportunities to me and/or I worked for it. Anyone else's parents could have done the same.

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'White privilege' and 'privilege' (as defined and used) are not the same thing. I too was raised by a parent who worked her ass off to provide the necessities, and had to put myself through college. But that is not what 'white privilege' is in reference to. I still benefit from 'white privilege.'

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You can go ahead and believe that. There are plenty of whites who have no privilege and work in middle class jobs, living paycheck to paycheck. People who are being discriminated against - in university and professional school admissions, job opportunities, etc - because they are white. White people (and Asians too) are actively being discriminated against in the arenas that are necessary to take an economic step up in this country.

sicem22 said:

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They don't do this at Baylor.

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No, they just let rape go unchecked and ignore any scandal in athletics in the name of winning.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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TXAGFAN said:

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Keegan99 said:

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Good for you.

But it's divisive by its very nature and creates tribalism and negative feelings.

The moment you treat an individual differently due to their race, for any reason, that will be an outcome.

---

You can acknowledge its existence (there is more than one type of privilege) while disagreeing with ways it can be used unfavorably. Denying it exists is insane and unbelievable to me.

---

If you stipulate to things like being watched in a store or being pulled over for DWB, what are the actual impacts of this privilege of not being subject to those? What real advantage is gained by "white privilege". Wealth and attractiveness are the real privileges to be born into.

---

If you fit the mainstream (straight white guy), yeah wealth and physical attractiveness are the only priveleges you'd probably be aware of.

I can't speak for black people, but being tailed in a store, pulled over and possibly facing police aggression or arrest seems pretty awful to me and don't say that doesn't happen or justice system is perfect, neither side thinks that.

I hate posting this **** because people will say "I'm a victim" which is nonsense, but as a gay guy who passed as straight without anyone, even immediate family, knowing into my early 30's it's not that there are these terrible things that definitely happen. You just can't easily be on equal footing with your heterosexual peers without risk of something negative happening. That doesn't mean having a gay pride parade of decorations on your desk or making being gay your whole personality, can be as simple as not having to flip pronouns about significant other when discussing weekend (something I did) or bringing them to a holiday party if you're brave (never was). In a work setting the impact could be as extreme as losing your employment, being passed up for promotion, or even just the stigma of being "TXAGFAN the gay in the dept" vs just "TXAGFAN". Can't hide your race, but as a guy who lived in closet during 20's heard an earful on a regular basis from people who felt safe espousing their bigotry in workplace. I didn't come out professionally in any capacity until I was more or less untouchable (higher in hierarchy, not easily replaced, etc). Would I have suffered any Ill effect if I'd been out? Who knows. I know my straight buddies never had to give their girlfriend/wife coming up in conversation or bringing them to holiday party a second thought, that's an example of privilege.

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So the cost was being uncomfortable, basically? And of course, that was then and this is now; if there's even the accusation of being insensitive to a protected class, it's a full HR investigation with termination of employment on the table. Most companies have a LGBQT and allies special interest group. If there was "straight privilege" at one point, that day is not only long gone, but swung the other way to ramifications for expressing support for traditional marriage. Same for most other protected groups. If you don't agree to hire and promote based on race or gender, you're a bigot - *phobe - *ist and your career and employment are at risk.

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Yep. The most egregious example of this off the top of my head was the CEO of Mozilla donating $1,000 and being in favor of the California prop to keep traditional marriage as the state law which last I checked was all legal in a free country. He was then fired. The combination of the alphabet mafia, BLM, and Antifa is a massive threat to a civil society.

Personally, I want "ain't no fun..."as an entry song.

Best player comes out to "guess who's back in the mother****ing house with a fat dick for your mother****ing mouth...".

Perfect. Song.

BigRobSA said:

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Personally, I want "ain't no fun..."as an entry song.

Best player comes out to "guess who's back in the mother****ing house with a fat dick for your mother****ing mouth...".

Perfect. Song.

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Why? Do you have children?