***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

8,066,948 Views | 48728 Replies | Last: 3 min ago by pagerman @ work
AtticusMatlock
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This video has radio chatter and flight tracking data. It looks like the A-50 was hit close to the southern coast near Berdyans'k. It was close enough to hit with a Patriot battery if the Ukrainians snuck one up close to the front line.

The IL-22 was actually quite far away, closer to the Kerch bridge. This is well outside of Patriot range or any Ukrainian assets. It was likely hit by friendly fire in the chaos following the hit to the A-50.

nortex97
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AG
That would make more sense, though I have read they also may have used some sort of rigged HARM type of missile strapped to a fighter to launch the attack (vs. a PAC2/ground based asset getting that close/at risk). The russian side has had rumors of friendly fire etc. but it might have been in the panic after the Mainstay went down.
Waffledynamics
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Trying to verify this.

Quote:

The Armed Forces continue measures to expand the bridgehead on the east bank of the Dnipro, the Russian forces have significantly reduced activity, - Defense Forces of the South
https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/16-january-the-armed-forces-continue-measures-to-expand-the

I'm not sure what they could be doing. That bridgehead is basically just a killzone for both sides.
ABATTBQ11
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I think Russia's concern is Ukrainian jets launching cruise missiles or other attacks. Their S-400's and S-300's have been hit hard, so they're trying to use the Mainstay to monitor Ukrainian airfields and airspace for early warnings on attacks. I think they can also use it as a secondary search radar to help target for the S-400 and S-300.

Main takeaway is that it's getting harder and harder for the Russians to keep Ukrainian aircraft at bay because their long range radars keep getting hit. Using the Mainstay like they are is a sign that they're having to dig deep to maintain their anti-air capabilities.
74OA
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The good article you linked on the previous page covers all that in detail.
Ag with kids
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Want to help Ukraine and have fun doing it?


Quote:

Ukraine Create an FPV drone at home, join the destruction of enemies by yourself
2wealfth Man
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ABATTBQ11 said:

I think Russia's concern is Ukrainian jets launching cruise missiles or other attacks. Their S-400's and S-300's have been hit hard, so they're trying to use the Mainstay to monitor Ukrainian airfields and airspace for early warnings on attacks. I think they can also use it as a secondary search radar to help target for the S-400 and S-300.

Main takeaway is that it's getting harder and harder for the Russians to keep Ukrainian aircraft at bay because their long range radars keep getting hit. Using the Mainstay like they are is a sign that they're having to dig deep to maintain their anti-air capabilities.
those 400's and 300's have to be high priority targets; every one that gets taken out is another nail in the air defense coffin.
74OA
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Ukrainian drones struck roughly 100 miles from the border, with the airbase that houses SU-34 fighter-bombers supposedly being the target, and other updates.

Today's SITREP.
2wealfth Man
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The last thing you see….

Waffledynamics
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AgLA06
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Waffledynamics said:


Large numbers Bradley's with the correct armaments and f16 with the same could really make a difference.
MouthBQ98
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The two closet ones are starting to try to bail out. Looks like they saw it at the last second.

Fwiw, a lot of times they just get blown off the roof with injuries but not killed, IF the vehicle doesn't explode.
2wealfth Man
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MouthBQ98 said:

The two closet ones are starting to try to bail out. Looks like they saw it at the last second.

Fwiw, a lot of times they just get blown off the roof with injuries but not killed, IF the vehicle doesn't explode.
nah…. it's a new Russian armor design they are testing
Rongagin71
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Cut of Zelensky speaking at Davos today. He wants Western unity vs Russia.

JFABNRGR
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MouthBQ98 said:

The two closet ones are starting to try to bail out. Looks like they saw it at the last second.

Fwiw, a lot of times they just get blown off the roof with injuries but not killed, IF the vehicle doesn't explode.


This where air burst APM is needed. They are developing some but have not seen them in mass production and the priority target is the armor, so they probably wouldn't use anyway. The surviving orcs not picked up can freeze or get taken out later.

There has also been instances where this soft protection has saved armor and it would not surprise me if an orc tank commander has ordered or requested INF for this reason who also have the difficult opportunity to shoot the drones down.
ABATTBQ11
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74OA said:

The good article you linked on the previous page covers all that in detail.


Yeah, but what I replied to was questioning why Russia was so concerned with Ukrainian air assets.
ABATTBQ11
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2wealfth Man said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

I think Russia's concern is Ukrainian jets launching cruise missiles or other attacks. Their S-400's and S-300's have been hit hard, so they're trying to use the Mainstay to monitor Ukrainian airfields and airspace for early warnings on attacks. I think they can also use it as a secondary search radar to help target for the S-400 and S-300.

Main takeaway is that it's getting harder and harder for the Russians to keep Ukrainian aircraft at bay because their long range radars keep getting hit. Using the Mainstay like they are is a sign that they're having to dig deep to maintain their anti-air capabilities.
those 400's and 300's have to be high priority targets; every one that gets taken out is another nail in the air defense coffin.


They have been, and the radars are expensive AF. In equipment alone this war has to be costing Russia trillions of rubles.
74OA
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France to provide more cruise missiles. Need Germany to step up, too.

SCALP
docb
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74OA said:

France to provide more cruise missiles. Need Germany to step up, too.

SCALP

And we should be sending those ATACMs slated for scrap.
74OA
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Photo shoot of the frontlines in winter.

GALLERY
Waffledynamics
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Trying to find more information.

Quote:

Explosions were reported in St.Petersburg
https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/18-january-explosions-were-reported-in-stpetersburg
74OA
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"Systems blending Western and Soviet parts, including repurposed air-to-air missiles, offer Ukraine added air defenses it desperately needs."

FRANKENSAM
Touchless
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Interesting article on Ukraine shooting down the A-50 from a few days ago.

Ukrainian Crews Set A Complex Missile Trap For Russia's Best Radar Plane

Quote:

On Sunday night, Ukrainian air-defenses shot down one of the Russian air force's very rare, and very valuable, A-50 radar early-warning planes, likely killing all 15 people aboardpotentially including high-ranking officers. A Russian Ilyushin Il-22 command plane was damaged in the same attack.

"Who did this?" the Ukrainian air force quipped. The answer, it seems, is the air arm's 90-mile-range Patriot PAC-2 air-defense missiles. Less likely: shorter-range Patriot PAC-3s or S-300s.

Exactly how the Ukrainians shot down the four-engine A-50 with its top-mounted radar is unclear, but analyst Tom Cooperwho has written many books about Soviet and Russian warplaneshas a theory.

Ukrainian radar and missile crews lured the Russian crews into a trap.

If Cooper's theory is correct, the Ukrainians set the trap on Saturday, when Ukrainian air force jetspresumably Sukhoi Su-24 bombersstruck Russian air force installations across the Russian-occupied Crimean Peninsula. "A number of radars were knocked out," Cooper reported.

The Saturday strikes, the latest in a long campaign of Ukrainian raids on Russian defenses in Crimea, suppressed the Russians' ground-based radar coverage, leaving the surviving missile batteries on the peninsula partially blindespecially to the north, where the terrain could mask incoming Ukrainian planes, drones and missiles.

So Russian commanders did the obvious, but stupid, thing. They ordered one of their few remaining A-50U radar planes, which normally fly far to the south over the Sea of Azov, to push farther north in order to extend radar coverage over most of Crimea. An A-50's rotating radar can see airplane-size targets nearly 200 miles away.

A four-prop Ilyushin Il-22M airborne command post with around 10 crew aboard accompanied the A-50. The Il-22 is a radio-relay platform; its crew assists the A-50's crew by handling communications and data-transfer for which the A-50 lacks the power and processing.

Satellite imagery and radar data seem to place the A-50's northernmost flight path over occupied Berdyansk, just 75 miles from the front line. That's within range of the single Patriot surface-to-air missile battery, out of three in the arsenal, that the Ukrainian air force has deployed along the southern front.

The trick was for the Ukrainians to target the A-50 and its accompanying Il-22 without giving the Russian crews too much advance notice of the attackand without sacrificing their precious Patriot system.

"All Ukrainians had to do was to secretly deploy a suitable SAM system to target the two aircraft from long range," Cooper wrote. "Perhaps this was one of [air force's] S-300 SAM systems. Perhaps one of [the air force's] PAC-2/3 SAM systems."

"It is also possible that Ukrainians have deployed a launcher and a radar, plus power-supply equipment, from one of their three PAC-2/3 SAM systems ... in combination with one of their S-300 radars."

There's some evidence of an S-300-Patriot team-up. A Russian air force Sukhoi Su-34 fighter-bomber reportedly detected a previously unknown Ukrainian S-300 battery switching on its radar in the minutes before the A-50 and Il-22 were hit.

If the S-300 battery did the initial illumination, it must have passes along target tracks to a nearby hidden Patriot battery. "The latter powered up its radar for only a few seconds: long enough to obtain its own targeting data, but too short for the Russians to dependably detect its emissions and assess them as a threat," Cooper surmised.

"And then the Ukrainians started firing their missiles."

A minute later, the missiles explodeddestroying the A-50 and damaging the Il-22. "With their fire-action over," Cooper wrote, "the Ukrainian S-300 and PAC-2/3 crews promptly ceased emitting, and started packing [up] their systems to move them away and thus avoid any possible Russian retaliation."
Down one A-50, the Russian air force may have just two of the jets left; the other six A-50s reportedly are in need of upgrade and overhaul. Unless the air force is willing to risk the last two flyable A-50s, it must make peace with its new inability to provide radar coverage over all of Crimea.

It must, in other words, accept the risk of continuingindeed, escalatingUkrainian missile raids on Russian forces on the peninsula.

If there's any comfort for the Russians, it might be that the Ukrainian air force does not have a limitless supply of PAC-2 missiles. Unless and until pro-Russia Republicans in the U.S. Congress approve the $61 billion in fresh aid to Ukraine that U.S. president Joe Biden has proposed, the Ukrainians may need to begin rationing their missilesand taking fewer chances on ambitious missile traps.
txags92
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Waffledynamics said:

Trying to find more information.

Quote:

Explosions were reported in St.Petersburg
https://liveuamap.com/en/2024/18-january-explosions-were-reported-in-stpetersburg
Looks like they were targeting a petroleum terminal in St Petersburg. Stories are unclear on whether they were successful in damaging it.
74OA
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Putin starting to talk tough about the Baltic states. Either we deal with him now at comparatively small cost to us or we let him succeed in Ukraine and pay a far higher price in blood and treasure later.

THREATS
aezmvp
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74OA said:

Putin starting to talk tough about the Baltic states. Either we deal with him now at comparatively small cost to us or we let him succeed in Ukraine and pay a far higher price later.

THREATS
I'm increasing wary of that situation simply due to the number of escalating threats out there: N Korea, Iran, Houthis, Lebannon, Gaza, Venezuela, Ukraine and Taiwan. All are either open warfare zones or close. The US just simply doesn't have the wherewithal to support or deploy to more than one of these. If Russia ever announce a full mobilization I'd be very concerned. It hasn't, probably can't or won't and has it's own problems but we'll see.

I think the US populace is starting to turn a bit on Ukraine. Largely this is due to the continued unwillingness to even acknowledge let alone address our border issues and it's starting to impact both sides. But if things blow up even in one other major area I'd expect to see one or more others decide to be opportunists.
74OA
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The US isn't in this alone. For example, 23 nations just joined together to produce artillery for Ukraine.

COALITION

Here's some solid perspective on where things stand at the moment.

NARRATIVES
74OA
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docb said:

74OA said:

France to provide more cruise missiles. Need Germany to step up, too.

SCALP

And we should be sending those ATACMs slated for scrap.
Agree. Send them all. "Kyiv has also received a limited amount of Army Tactical Missile System, or ATACMS from the U.S. Ukrainian forces first began using older ATCAMS variants - with a range of about 102 miles - to great effect in October."

MISSILES
74OA
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France sending interesting new weapons and other notes from the front.

Today's SITREP.
BadMoonRisin
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74OA said:

Putin starting to talk tough about the Baltic states. Either we deal with him now at comparatively small cost to us or we let him succeed in Ukraine and pay a far higher price later.

THREATS
We? Sounds like it's our NATO "partners" and Baltic states problem, not "ours". They should have more skin in the game than we do.
BadMoonRisin
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Waffledynamics said:


When it says in notes FPV drone are they talking about these?

https://www.dji.com/dji-fpv

These are civvy drones....and they are fitting them with bombs? Or are they just saying that's how they confirmed that the vehicle was destroyed, sunk, damaged, etc?
74OA
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BadMoonRisin said:

74OA said:

Putin starting to talk tough about the Baltic states. Either we deal with him now at comparatively small cost to us or we let him succeed in Ukraine and pay a far higher price later.

THREATS
We? Sounds like it's our NATO "partners" and Baltic states problem, not "ours". They should have more skin in the game than we do.
Any attack on a NATO ally is, by treaty, an attack on us. So, it's far cheaper in blood and treasure to help Ukraine beat Putin than to let Ukraine fall and risk war coming to NATO. Meanwhile, the EU has spent more money on aid to Ukraine than the US precisely because it does recognize what's at stake.
Waffledynamics
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BadMoonRisin said:

74OA said:

Putin starting to talk tough about the Baltic states. Either we deal with him now at comparatively small cost to us or we let him succeed in Ukraine and pay a far higher price later.

THREATS
We? Sounds like it's our NATO "partners" and Baltic states problem, not "ours". They should have more skin in the game than we do.
The Baltics and Eastern Europeans have provided an outsized amount of support compared to their GDPs.

Here is a comparison from January 24, 2022 and May 31, 2023.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303450/bilateral-aid-to-ukraine-in-a-percent-of-donor-gdp/
Waffledynamics
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BadMoonRisin said:

Waffledynamics said:


When it says in notes FPV drone are they talking about these?

https://www.dji.com/dji-fpv

These are civvy drones....and they are fitting them with bombs? Or are they just saying that's how they confirmed that the vehicle was destroyed, sunk, damaged, etc?
Those are some of the drones being used on the battlefield, but there are a variety. A lot of them are kamikaze drones meant to fly at the target and then explode.
ABATTBQ11
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FPV is just First Person View. It's any drone with a camera attached so the pilot can see where he's going.
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