prize for the revamped Ukrainian navy after it takes Crimea this fall

aezmvp said:

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I don't think anyone's Navy is really set up for this type of threat. I'm betting Taiwan is looking at this right now and putting a fab together.

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It's been a massive headache for the USN since the USS Cole and I still don't think we have a true comprehensive response aside from just more deck guns and lookouts/cameras. Tbf though, it's such a tough problem to deal with. Mainly detecting them in the first place.

Two schools of thought I think. Hitting the port side again is potentially a good way to capsize her by making her roll. If they're closing off compartments to limit flooding, another hole potentially floods new areas that were sealed and protected from the initial hit. It's harder to flood the starboard side to maintain stability without sinking the ship.

Hitting the starboard puts a hole below her waterline if she's listing over. If she rights herself due to flooding, potentially the entire hole stays beneath the water. They can seal it off to prevent sinking, but with two holes and one beneath the waterline they may take on too much water for it to matter.

sclaff said:

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prize for the revamped Ukrainian navy after it takes Crimea this fall

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It's in Novorossiysk. That's Russia proper and pretty far east of Crimea. I'm really surprised they were able to get drones that far and successfully strike a ship. A surface group or single ship would have a really hard time with a swarm of maybe 10-12 of these things.

Someone said operating them in pairs, but I could see small groups being more effective. Slave a handful to a mothership to guide them to a target area together, then give pilots control over them once they find a target or reach a jumping off point. A coordinated attack with half the swarm from multiple directions could cripple a ship, with a follow up to finish it off or potentially attack rescue efforts.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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sclaff said:

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prize for the revamped Ukrainian navy after it takes Crimea this fall

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It's in Novorossiysk. That's Russia proper and pretty far east of Crimea. I'm really surprised they were able to get drones that far and successfully strike a ship. A surface group or single ship would have a really hard time with a swarm of maybe 10-12 of these things.

Someone said operating them in pairs, but I could see small groups being more effective. Slave a handful to a mothership to guide them to a target area together, then give pilots control over them once they find a target or reach a jumping off point. A coordinated attack with half the swarm from multiple directions could cripple a ship, with a follow up to finish it off or potentially attack rescue efforts.

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thought it was Sevastopol.... my mistake

No worries

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Two schools of thought I think. Hitting the port side again is potentially a good way to capsize her by making her roll. If they're closing off compartments to limit flooding, another hole potentially floods new areas that were sealed and protected from the initial hit. It's harder to flood the starboard side to maintain stability without sinking the ship.

Hitting the starboard puts a hole below her waterline if she's listing over. If she rights herself due to flooding, potentially the entire hole stays beneath the water. They can seal it off to prevent sinking, but with two holes and one beneath the waterline they may take on too much water for it to matter.

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My question is if you have the ability to steer it and see what you are going to hit, why not hit the stern and try to pop the seals on the prop shafts so you flood the engine room? Sink the stern and it won't be going anywhere.

Another view. That's a pretty good list.

"It is sinking while it is being towed" - another video appeared of the Russian landing ship Olenegorskiy gornyak that was reportedly damaged by a surface drone this morning. pic.twitter.com/nOUFgZUgJi

— Anton Gerashchenko (@Gerashchenko_en) August 4, 2023

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Another view. That's a pretty good list.

"It is sinking while it is being towed" - another video appeared of the Russian landing ship Olenegorskiy gornyak that was reportedly damaged by a surface drone this morning. pic.twitter.com/nOUFgZUgJi

— Anton Gerashchenko (@Gerashchenko_en) August 4, 2023

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yea, that is a bad list to port

No idea, but I think that's a good idea

This one is an amphibious landing ship, so it has large internal spaces. Poke a good hole into one and it's going to be really hard to keep the ship afloat because the water has so much open space to flow into. The bow may have been a better option because the 775 class landing ship has a large bow gate. Damage that or blow it open and there may be uncontrollable flooding.

It's docked now, but there's already satellite images showing a big oil slick coming from it. It'll probably survive, but it's going to be out of commission for a long time.

ETA She's probably ****ed. Apparently her sister ship Tsezar Kunikov, which was damaged in March of last year in a missile attack while offloading equipment and supplies, is out of commission indefinitely due to a lack of parts to repair it. I would think Olenegorsky Gornyak is going to suffer a similar fate.

Lithuania confirmed it has transferred two Mi-8 helicopters to Ukraine. pic.twitter.com/1tEA5XjoS2

— NOELREPORTS 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) August 4, 2023

2 BUK 1s and 2 EW jamming systems destroyed this week same general area. Were not far from a storm shadow hit on the Kerch bridge.

I hope they can drop the main spans.

lb3 said:

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I hope they can drop the main spans.

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What you want to drop is the rail side and the electric and data cables heading over there.

Yeah if you look at the Ukrainians USVs are maybe 2 feet out of the water, you can see someone coming up with one that is nothing but a periscope / data link and a bigger warhead. Good luck stopping that effectively.

aezmvp said:

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Yeah if you look at the Ukrainians USVs are maybe 2 feet out of the water, you can see someone coming up with one that is nothing but a periscope / data link and a bigger warhead. Good luck stopping that effectively.

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It would be easier and almost as effective to design a USV which can simply ballast down to the waterline as it waits in the sea-lanes or harbor approaches for a passing target.

In the meantime, Ukraine continues to innovate: USVs

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Another view. That's a pretty good list.

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Hitting the bridge 2 days before a grain deal to force a "blockade" from Russia.

Hitting a Russian ship near Novorossiysk (no where near the "bockade") a week later.

I don't understand how these ships cannot detect a drone on the water. Recreational marine radar (Garmin, Raymarine) can identify obstacles in the water for miles away.. even birds. I realize it has to be an above the water to detect.. but not much.

You have to keep in mind that Russian radars were designed to find larger objects like ships or subsurface vehicles like subs, a small USV that barely sticks out of the water was not part of its design. Anything of that size would be like a RIB that you can clearly see.

The other issue is from the video that the USV is too close for deck guns to aim that low. There are a few other ways to knock them out but most cannot be deployed that quickly.

.......and there's so much organics, clutter and spurious return out there that military radar computer software is written to filter a lot of it, otherwise the operators would be overwhelmed.

Ship detection radars are optimized for detecting other ships at or beyond the horizon. To do that they use lower frequency bands that aren't absorbed by the atmosphere and can bend with the curvature of the earth. The downside is that It's difficult to detect anything that is significantly smaller than the wavelength of the beam you're trying to illuminate them with. For example a 30MHz radar has a wavelength of 10 meters and won't pick up a small semi-submerged surface drone.

Higher frequency radars are typically optimized for aircraft and are mostly pointed at the sky.

Quote:

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Deputy minister of defense of Ukraine: Ukrainian forces have breached the 1st Russian line of defense of in the south

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/4-august-deputy-minister-of-defense-of-ukraine-ukrainian

Waffledynamics said:

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Quote:

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Deputy minister of defense of Ukraine: Ukrainian forces have breached the 1st Russian line of defense of in the south

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/4-august-deputy-minister-of-defense-of-ukraine-ukrainian

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Was going to say, this is starting to be reported by multiple sources.

Looking like a bad day for the Russians

Surovikin line seems pretty stout, and to get to the shore would mean going through several water obstacles so it may still be slow going. I doubt we'll see a wide breakout like in Kharkiv last year. Seems they may have Tokmak in their sights.

"And there they are faced with concrete engineering fortifications on the dominant heights created by the enemy. This, of course, complicates the movement of our troops and the combat actions," Maliar said on national television.https://t.co/oclwDDCANs

— The Kyiv Independent (@KyivIndependent) August 4, 2023

Very, very interesting article about Ukraine's air defense. Contains a lot of stuff I assumed was to be kept secret, but it is good it's public now and we can talk about Ukraine's need for more air defense before winter.https://t.co/ktd2aAL3kF

— Thomas C. Theiner (@noclador) August 4, 2023

Not sensitive content - just Zelensky pictured with a raised fist

Large explosion reported on Kerch Strait Bridge.

Russian channels posted this video. The man is informing vessels moving to the Kerch strait that "the enemy is attacking the Crimean Bridge with USVs and UAVs" and requests all the ships to report in case detecting the objects pic.twitter.com/hDlhhE6tPh

— Giorgi Revishvili (@revishvilig) August 4, 2023

Quote:

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Kerch bridge has been closed to traffic

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2023/4-august-kerch-bridge-has-been-closed-to-traffic-

👀 pic.twitter.com/JcQHOQFdxa

— Intel Crab (@IntelCrab) August 4, 2023

At least 3 Explosions are reported to have been heard so far near the Kerch Strait Bridge between Crimea and Mainland Russia, it is not yet known if any of the Explosions have Struck the Bridge but the Light are still Out.

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) August 4, 2023

Small-Arms Fire can be heard near the Kerch Strait Bridge as Russian Forces are reportedly attempting to Repel an Assault by Ukrainian Naval and Air “Kamikaze” Attack Drones.

— OSINTdefender (@sentdefender) August 4, 2023

Lights at the crimean bridge has been turned off - Mashhttps://t.co/opjzgTzrUd pic.twitter.com/gqISmxwGuT

— Faytuks News Δ (@Faytuks) August 4, 2023