My impression is that it is tube artillery delivered DPICM that is being primarily considered, so the decision is not necessarily tied to also providing ATACMS.JFABNRGR said:These must be the M39 & M39A1 ATACAMS. I think we have close to 1500 of them and most around 30 years old. They are supposed to be converted to M57E1s but I bet the conversion cost is higher than making new M57s and the PSMs are supposed to replace the ATACMS (all variants) anyway with greater range 100+ miles and come two per pod instead of one.74OA said:
DPICM under serious consideration. We must stop self-deterring and asking Ukraine to fight with one hand tied behind its back. What is the point of having a clean battlefield if Russia ends up owning it? Thanks to Russia, Ukraine already has a massive mine clean-up ahead, so let it decide if adding cluster munition duds to that hazard is worth the additional combat capability DPICM brings.
CLUSTER
There almost isn't another effective weapon like this, that makes complete logical sense on all fronts to give to the Ukrainians. Once the PSMs are in inventory these are almost obsolete. The potential civilian casualty risk is rendered moot by allowing the orcs to continue hitting civilian infrastructure from short to medium weapons while dumping all kinds of mines whenever and wherever they can. Meanwhile talk about a trench clearing charge or possibly even mines. The M39 has 950 bomblets and the M39A1 300. Probably work well over Sevastipul as well when ships refueling or taking on cruise missiles.
Ramp up production of the PSMs for our own stockpile and send these to Ukraine in 25-50 unit blocks. Given today's speech by Zelensky. send some immediately to defend the northern front from potential wagner incursion and keep the majority of the announced reinforcement focused on retaking ground in the east and south.
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
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Well.....I recommend BOTH delivery mechanisms munition types for the lil bombs to the Ukes.74OA said:
My impression is that it is tube artillery delivered DPICM that is being primarily considered, so the decision is not necessarily tied to also providing ATACMS.
Hard to believe they have any real accuracy.2wealfth Man said:
really cool video of pitch-up helicopter attack on Orc positions
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/14mu0ph/two_ukrainian_mi8_attack_helicopters_doing_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
I would love to see nothing more than a surprise rain of these on Sevastipul while subs were reloading and other valuable assets were there.
Being in TexAgs jail changes a man……..no, not really
several new reports coming in on reddit that ukes have massive assault way up north and that russians leaving Zapporizhiah with instructions to leave the Nuke plant.
2 of the links below and its early, so uncorroborated. At about 11:00 mark he states there are reports the orcs are deploying tube launched mines behind their own lines blocking the retreat of their own soldiers.
2 of the links below and its early, so uncorroborated. At about 11:00 mark he states there are reports the orcs are deploying tube launched mines behind their own lines blocking the retreat of their own soldiers.
The destruction of Russian sabotage reconnaissance group somewhere on the banks of the Dnipro river. Near Kherson.https://t.co/mIJtBT5Qle pic.twitter.com/QAsABASMLr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) June 30, 2023
free flying lessons at the 0:47 markWaffledynamics said:The destruction of Russian sabotage reconnaissance group somewhere on the banks of the Dnipro river. Near Kherson.https://t.co/mIJtBT5Qle pic.twitter.com/QAsABASMLr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) June 30, 2023
Or free frogmen flying lessons.Quote:
free flying lessons at the 0:47 mark
One guy caught at least 10 feet of air. Looks like a Tony Hawk Pro Skater achievement.aggiehawg said:Or free frogmen flying lessons.Quote:
free flying lessons at the 0:47 mark
Waffledynamics said:The destruction of Russian sabotage reconnaissance group somewhere on the banks of the Dnipro river. Near Kherson.https://t.co/mIJtBT5Qle pic.twitter.com/QAsABASMLr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) June 30, 2023
How were they seemingly unfazed by those bursts right next to them up until the one sent the dude flying? All of those explosions were right on point and shrapnel clearly everywhere. I thought they were going to be doomed well before those last two.
The idea that the coup was staged.
https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-coup-was-staged-putin-west-fell-it-opinion-1810035
https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-coup-was-staged-putin-west-fell-it-opinion-1810035
shiftyandquick said:
The idea that the coup was staged.
https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-coup-was-staged-putin-west-fell-it-opinion-1810035
I'm guessing you wouldn't lose 6 choppers and an Intel plane if you were gonna stage a fake coup but that's just me.
Not everyone is in on the secret. They are collateral damage and heighten the realism. A sacrifice.
hopefully all 30 Russkie officers on that listSouthTex99 said:
A secret VIP member? I think they mean he steered contracts and shared the bounty.
start falling out of windows in Moscow shortly
74OA said:The offensive is still focused on attacking Russian logistics, command hubs and artillery, so Ukraine doesn't need to take Mariupol and Melitopol in the near term, just get close enough to place them under fire.P.U.T.U said:
Mariupol and Melitopol are key logistic centers, take those and you cut off anything to the west like Kherson. I have not looked at the maps but if Ukraine made it that far in they are likely past the second line of defenses in that area. They will have to start again at Tokmak since I remember seeing defenses around the city
Getting close enough to hit them and the LOCs running from them is an important step towards starving the Russian force in the south of the high resupply volume needed to enable its usual prolific munitions expenditure--particularly artillery fires.
The broad-front Ukranian advance compliments this interdiction campaign and is intended, amongst other things, to keep as many Russians as possible in contact and steadily drawing down their stockpile of increasingly hard to get munitions.
Meanwhile, it appears that Ukraine's primary mechanized force is being held in reserve until sufficient weakness develops to make a concentrated assault on a narrower front feasible.
Will this approach succeed? I have no particular insight, but the strategy seems a good ends-ways-means fit for Ukrainian strengths and Russian weaknesses.
from what the Uke commentators are stating- it's the Russkie KA-52 and other attack choppers that are the biggest threat to their armor moving forward.
the Russians have greater range than anything the AFU can deploy- so their armor is always sitting ducks.
it may make sense to wait until F-16s come online-
and then use them to blast the Russian choppers when they come up to hit the advancing Uke armor hitting the weak spots.
You never can get an outboard motor started when you really need it.Waffledynamics said:The destruction of Russian sabotage reconnaissance group somewhere on the banks of the Dnipro river. Near Kherson.https://t.co/mIJtBT5Qle pic.twitter.com/QAsABASMLr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) June 30, 2023
Absolutely. Like a bad horror movie watching them trying to get that motor going with the killer slowly closing in on them.torrid said:You never can get an outboard motor started when you really need it.Waffledynamics said:The destruction of Russian sabotage reconnaissance group somewhere on the banks of the Dnipro river. Near Kherson.https://t.co/mIJtBT5Qle pic.twitter.com/QAsABASMLr
— Special Kherson Cat 🐈🇺🇦 (@bayraktar_1love) June 30, 2023
shiftyandquick said:
The idea that the coup was staged.
https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-coup-was-staged-putin-west-fell-it-opinion-1810035
Putin has been in crisis mode and the coup has greatly destabilized the Russian regime. Autocrats never risk looking weak.
Now I would buy the idea that Wagner was cut off from funding and desperate instead of going full blown coup. I think it was more of a hybrid. If they got the support they were hoping for, go full coup. If they don't strike a deal.
Could be nothing, but not a great sign...
Relocated to the Med. I think the nuclear plant situation, might be more real than some of you want to believe. Add in the Russia denial and preemptively blaming Ukraine. Something to watch.
USAF WC-135R Constant Phoenix WNDSR01 "nuke sniffer". pic.twitter.com/Ym8M1m2K4a
— Manu Gómez (@GDarkconrad) July 1, 2023
Relocated to the Med. I think the nuclear plant situation, might be more real than some of you want to believe. Add in the Russia denial and preemptively blaming Ukraine. Something to watch.
PJYoung said:shiftyandquick said:
The idea that the coup was staged.
https://www.newsweek.com/wagner-coup-was-staged-putin-west-fell-it-opinion-1810035
I'm guessing you wouldn't lose 6 choppers and an Intel plane if you were gonna stage a coup but that's just me.
Yeah. You don't blast high value assets out of the air for smoke and mirrors.
Gordo14 said:
Could be nothing, but not a great sign...USAF WC-135R Constant Phoenix WNDSR01 "nuke sniffer". pic.twitter.com/Ym8M1m2K4a
— Manu Gómez (@GDarkconrad) July 1, 2023
Relocated to the Med. I think the nuclear plant situation, might be more real than some of you want to believe. Add in the Russia denial and preemptively blaming Ukraine. Something to watch.
It's a 100 times more real than a nuclear missile attack. It's also reason to push to get them out of there as quickly as possible.
Looking for info on what the US Army is learning from this war. Is there a summary somewhere that provides any key learnings coming out of this relative to US equipment or doctrine. I have to assume tactical drone use at the Btn, Co and PLT level is an area where our current doctrine have been shown to be deficient. Anyone aware of how/what we are learning from all this?
Probably not something publicly available, but I would venture a guess that it has to do with EW, drones, and fighting without air superiority. Probably also thoughts on use of autonomous systems in highly contested areas.
Just search "US Army lessons learned from Ukraine".japantiger said:
Looking for info on what the US Army is learning from this war. Is there a summary somewhere that provides any key learnings coming out of this relative to US equipment or doctrine. I have to assume tactical drone use at the Btn, Co and PLT level is an area where our current doctrine have been shown to be deficient. Anyone aware of how/what we are learning from all this?
Lots of good articles will pop up....... HERE
Probably a ton of lessons learned about electronic warfare and signal jamming.
For sure. Our SHORAD capabilities are questionable. No problem with air superiority ... but that's not guaranteed in all peer-to-peer scenarios.ABATTBQ11 said:
Probably not something publicly available, but I would venture a guess that it has to do with EW, drones, and fighting without air superiority. Probably also thoughts on use of autonomous systems in highly contested areas.
Ukraine smartly upgrading its Leo 2's with reactive armor. It's the thinner-skinned Leo I's that really need it.
PLATES
PLATES
Hopefully one lesson getting through is that just because you are fighting a "near peer" that it doesn't mean the war will be fought or won with standoff weapons and shaping operations. Misreading that might lead to the idea to pay for new technology through divestiture of tanks, tube artillery, and shrinking the number of trigger pullers in an infantry battalion by 15%.
Another look at the effects inside Russia from the Wagner mutiny. If the analysis of the vast majority of commentators is correct about the negative impact on Putin's credibility, no way he deliberately staged something so damaging to himself.
MYTH
MYTH
japantiger said:
Looking for info on what the US Army is learning from this war. Is there a summary somewhere that provides any key learnings coming out of this relative to US equipment or doctrine. I have to assume tactical drone use at the Btn, Co and PLT level is an area where our current doctrine have been shown to be deficient. Anyone aware of how/what we are learning from all this?
What everyone listed is true. Trying to not sound dramatic but when looking at the technical learning side of this conflict, this has been an absolute goldmine for us. From using preexisting equipment in new and novel ways, to forcing our hand in finally addressing new realities of warfare the US has gotten so much.
It is no secret that we get caught flat footed in a lot of areas in nearly every conflict since WW1. It takes us a while to learn and adapt to a new war and in that gap time, our military pays for it in blood and broken bodies. To be blunt, the Ukes are the ones who are paying that price for the new waves of hard learning. The best example I have is the use of cheap throw away drones. It was an area that we had a footprint in but the scale we have seen to date over there has made us accelerate the amount of resources and attention on it. In both using and defending. It was a wake up call.
We are even learning tactics and procedures. The Vinzhal hypersonic that was shot down by a Patriot. Many reports out there describing it wasn't really capable of that until Uke operators tweaked the software until it could. It is also forcing us to look at what happens if air superiority is not available. Something that literally every American takes for granted. We learn the how tos of navigating minefields into prepared defenses but that is all book learning at this point for us. The Ukes are doing it now and putting theory to the test every day now. And I know we have people devouring every byte of battle data coming from that.
The RF side may be even more drastic of a learning curve but we will really never know considering the secrecy of that world but the Russians are very good at it and we are putting some of our equipment against it now. The Ukes also captured intact dedicated Russian EW platforms and gave them to us. Our RF engineers are probably wetting the bed in glee at this "free" testing, evaluation, and collecting of adversarial capabilities and glad they don't have to truthfully answer that question of giving up their first borns for this opportunity.
Seems the precision munitions might be worth their weight in gold
Company I-1, Ord-Ords '85 -12thFan and Websider-
Thanks for the followup folks...appreciate it very much
we often forget that what Putin does is not to influence us. It's to influence the people that sustain his power (Russians).74OA said:
Another look at the effects inside Russia from the Wagner mutiny. If the analysis of the vast majority of commentators is correct about the negative impact on Putin's credibility, no way he deliberately staged something so damaging to himself.
MYTH
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