Is that just from their fall offensive?

Htownag11 said:

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If they've only lost 13,000 troops they are doing remarkably well. Seems a little too low to be believable IMO.

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Thats only KIA. Ukraine has a decent western style medical corps and actually treats its wounded.

One reason the Russians count is higher is that they basically leave their wounded to die in the field. The Russian ratio of dead to wounded is probably closer to what was seen in the Civil War than the global war on terror.

Corporal Punishment said:

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This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

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Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

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I'm sure the numbers are under reported for moral purposes.

I also think they don't have the horrible wounded to dead ratio Russia has on the battlefield either. They've stressed evacuating wounded soldiers and keeping the ratio closer to Allied military numbers.

Htownag11 said:

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If they've only lost 13,000 troops they are doing remarkably well. Seems a little too low to be believable IMO.

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Does seem kind of low....

13,000 dead + 3 x missing wounded = 52,000ish

But also consider the caliber of troops the Ukes are going against v. their Western trained troops. The Germans killed Russians a something like a 4-5 X's rate as well and the current Orcs seem to be using the same early WWII tactics but with virtually untrained troops...<shrug>

Corporal Punishment said:

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This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

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Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

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no freaking way,

especially with Uke forces moving from the defensive to the offensive over the last three months

It's one of the non highlighted aid benefits of the quasi coalition. Badly wounded Uke warriors are being hosted in western countries and getting some of the best trauma care in the world.

The orcs on the other hand….

And I am pretty sure the Uke numbers are low too. Definitely one of the more hush hush bullet points of the conflict. Which I fully understand. We do it too in a way with our "contractors". We lost a lot in the ME but you will never see those numbers highlighted. Russia is a floundering beast but a lot of Ukes are still dying unfortunately.

AgLA06 said:

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Corporal Punishment said:

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This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

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Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

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I'm sure the numbers are under reported for moral purposes.

I also think they don't have the horrible wounded to dead ratio Russia has on the battlefield either. They've stressed evacuating wounded soldiers and keeping the ratio closer to Allied military numbers.

---

let's look at reality though.

of course the Ukes want to save all their wounded. In Afghanistan the US wounded would be operated on within 15 minutes.

but Ukraine has been shattered in the east, hospitals without electricity or supplies, vast refugee problems, supply problems, even the roadways and bridges are destroyed.

much less how many mobile field hospitals have we ever even seen in Ukraine?

I haven't seen a single one in the last 8 months.

so it's not like the Ukes are this ultra modern force able to save their wounded at a rate similar to the USA with helicopters and the most advanced hospitals in the world. I have seen video of more Russkie military ambulances and field hospitals than I have Ukrainian.

LMCane said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Corporal Punishment said:

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This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

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Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

---

I'm sure the numbers are under reported for moral purposes.

I also think they don't have the horrible wounded to dead ratio Russia has on the battlefield either. They've stressed evacuating wounded soldiers and keeping the ratio closer to Allied military numbers.

---

let's look at reality though.

of course the Ukes want to save all their wounded. In Afghanistan the US wounded would be operated on within 15 minutes.

but Ukraine has been shattered in the east, hospitals without electricity or supplies, vast refugee problems, supply problems, even the roadways and bridges are destroyed.

much less how many mobile field hospitals have we ever even seen in Ukraine?

I haven't seen a single one in the last 8 months.

so it's not like the Ukes are this ultra modern force able to save their wounded at a rate similar to the USA with helicopters and the most advanced hospitals in the world. I have seen video of more Russkie military ambulances and field hospitals than I have Ukrainian.

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This doesn't surprise me based on your posting history. It's also bogus.

The Ukes have a very comprehensive evacuation system set up to shuttle troops to care. Their medics are quite good as well. Miles ahead of the RUssians. This is also an area where the UKes have utilized international volunteers with the necessary experience and skill. And it appears to have made a huge difference.

You are also wrong on the hospital system being shattered. They often have local hospitals up and running right after they are liberated and caring for the wounded. Not difficult to bring supplies and generators with you and well as staff.

You don't need helicopters to evac troops when every city / village you take is your country. They aren't 8,000 miles away from home in a foreign sand box. They aren't fighting an insurgency where you have to protect ambulances or your rear. Anything can be used as a medivac. And they've been just as ingenuitive here as everywhere else.

Is their survival numbers as good as us or Britton. I doubt it. They aren't going to be able to provide tier 1 trauma care as quickly because of enemy artillery / offensive threat. But I've been just as amazed (if not more) at what they have been able to do in this area.

USA*** said:

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Htownag11 said:

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If they've only lost 13,000 troops they are doing remarkably well. Seems a little too low to be believable IMO.

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Does seem kind of low....

13,000 dead + 3 x missing wounded = 52,000ish

But also consider the caliber of troops the Ukes are going against v. their Western trained troops. The Germans killed Russians a something like a 4-5 X's rate as well and the current Orcs seem to be using the same early WWII tactics but with virtually untrained troops...<shrug>

---

You also have to consider how many Uke troops were caught up in the first weeks of the war. It was a desperate time to just stall invasion forces that had better equipment and sheer numbers. I'd guess the first month probably skews the Uke casualty numbers quite a bit.

I'd imagine since then, they are multiples better on casualties than the Orcs. Even with the offensives. No doubt they took casualties, but they hit so fast with such violence that entire Orc units broke and ran instead of fighting. It wasn't the slow grinding daily heavy battle trench warfare we are seeing today in Bakhmut

If you are a wounded Russian soldier still alive. You should consider yourself extremely fortunate.

Russian President Vladimir Putin fell down the stairs and soiled himself this week https://t.co/QDDPS4KdpZ

— AlexandruC4 (@AlexandruC4) December 2, 2022

Russia now wants its annexations of four Ukrainian regions to be formally recognized before talks can begin

Russia is effectively asking Ukraine to give up territories of Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia and Kherson that Kyiv holds. A total non-starter

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) December 2, 2022

LMCane said:

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AgLA06 said:

---

Corporal Punishment said:

---

This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

---

Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

---

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

---

I'm sure the numbers are under reported for moral purposes.

I also think they don't have the horrible wounded to dead ratio Russia has on the battlefield either. They've stressed evacuating wounded soldiers and keeping the ratio closer to Allied military numbers.

---

let's look at reality though.

of course the Ukes want to save all their wounded. In Afghanistan the US wounded would be operated on within 15 minutes.

but Ukraine has been shattered in the east, hospitals without electricity or supplies, vast refugee problems, supply problems, even the roadways and bridges are destroyed.

much less how many mobile field hospitals have we ever even seen in Ukraine?

I haven't seen a single one in the last 8 months.

so it's not like the Ukes are this ultra modern force able to save their wounded at a rate similar to the USA with helicopters and the most advanced hospitals in the world. I have seen video of more Russkie military ambulances and field hospitals than I have Ukrainian.

---

The 13,000 KIA (low or not) should never be separated from 100,000+ Uke civilians killed.

I expect that number to be about 1:3 Ukes to Orcs. I have seen field hospitals and I bet they are using helos to evac but since the orcs target hospitals OPSEC is pretty strict on this. 15 minutes to surgery in Astan is pretty good stretch as well. Not saying it didn't happen a few times but certainly not the average. November was bad for Ukraine as you stated offensive operations. Foreign legion losses as well. 9 Americans wounded shipped home in November alone.

Of interest these outstanding folks doing good works in Ukraine, including medical extractions among other things.
https://saveourallies.org/

I doubt that. He was giving his shorts a goodwill gesture of fertilizer as the liberated his colon. That was not a accident.

For most of Astan war the US operated on the "golden hour" rule meaning if they has a serious CASEVAC their goal was to get that soldier to an operating room in under an hour. Unless you had an 18D (special forces medic) or equal you were stuck waiting to be evacuated for medical help. US and the allies have spent a ton of money helping the Ukes with medical aid/training and there are a lot of volunteer groups helping as well.

For Ukraine 1:3 seems to be about accurate, for Russia it is probably 1:4-5+ and maybe worse for conscripts. Wagner probably has the lowest number just because they handle most of stuff themselves and they have the best training.

I am not sure about 13k KIA soldiers. that seems low since at the beginning of the war Russia was in major cities with a lot of forces. The Kherson area was mostly artillery until Ukraine figured out the Russia ground defenses were pretty weak. Ukraine in the east is difference, they are going against seasoned Wagner troops in much more difficult terrain. Plus it is much more easy to supply Russian troops with the border being right there. Russia has been pretty vocal, they want the east and keep Crimea due to resources and the economic benefit of keeping it

Rossticus said:

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Seeing Ukes pilot F14s for stand-off missile strikes into Russia would be one of those extra special things I'd love to see for a few reasons. Sadly, the chances of it happening are somewhere between none and lol. But, a guy can dream, though.

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Unless you are getting those Tomcats from Iran you are SOL. The US F-14's are either on sticks, in museums, or are razor blades. It's a shame that we did not at least keep 2-3 D models for Airshows by private groups like the F-4. The .gov was too worried about parts making their was to Iran.

The AIM-120D has pretty good range, but probably not enough to get to the Russian bombers without crossing into Russian territory.

Nice photos of the defensive works Russia is building to defend southern Ukraine.

FORTS

Interesting considering that's where the Zaporizhzhia NPP is:

Quote:

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Detonation of ammunition reported near Enerhodar, Zaporizhzhia region

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https://liveuamap.com/en/2022/2-december-detonation-of-ammunition-reported-near-enerhodar

If they have released photos of the Russian defenses that very likely means Ukraine has the lat/long of where they are at which makes them easy targets for things like HIMARs. Wait until Russian troops mass there and take them out. If just a few show up see if you can drop some explosive ordinance from drones.

Very good interview with a British dude just back from the Uke foreign legion. He left London last week of February. Talks about kalibre missle attack on his 3rd day in country.
Foreign fighters from all over the world. Tongue in cheek about respecting cultural differences.
He's a good storyteller and fun to listen to.
It's about 1hr long.

P.U.T.U said:

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If they have released photos of the Russian defenses that very likely means Ukraine has the lat/long of where they are at which makes them easy targets for things like HIMARs. Wait until Russian troops mass there and take them out. If just a few show up see if you can drop some explosive ordinance from drones.

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Why bother? I don't see obvious signs of artillery emplacements in those photos which means supporting big guns may be in fire bases further to the rear. If so, they should be the targeting priority. Once they're taken out just bypass the forts.

True, maybe use traditional artillery to soften the targets and wait to use HIMARS for HVTs

Interesting.

https://t.co/R1y0LsLN6V pic.twitter.com/D6mEJqT80b

— Clown World ™ 🤡 (@ClownWorld_) December 2, 2022

If I recall correctly, there are something like 3 or 5 orthodox denominations in Ukraine, and I am not sure how significant this is at all really. The primary Russian one has obviously been overtly political throughout.

Lower Ukrainian casualty numbers might make some sense when it is considered that they've been on the defensive side of most direct front line combat after the very start of the war, being able to fire on more exposed attacking forces often from prepared defenses. The times Ukraine was on the offensive, they have forced logistical withdrawals, or exploited a breakthrough and rout, instead of having to conduct heavy grinding frontal assaults.

Not sure how I feel about this. As an American and retired attorney outlawing a religion goes against my principles. But the rest of the world doesn't necessarily have the same principles.

A British Volunteer Back from Ukraine.

Excellent listen. He was present when the barracks in the west were hit with cruise missiles.
Big chat about volunteers somewhere around 26-30 min.
CASVAC discussion about 31 minutes.
about 41 min, discusses soviet era logistics and or possible russian loyal officers.
45 min theft
47 min Thermobaric strike 135 KIAsf

Just listen to the whole thing!

aggiehawg said:

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Not sure how I feel about this. As an American and retired attorney outlawing a religion goes against my principles. But the rest of the world doesn't necessarily have the same principles.

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Nor do all religious entities.

aggiehawg said:

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Not sure how I feel about this. As an American and retired attorney outlawing a religion goes against my principles. But the rest of the world doesn't necessarily have the same principles.

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Its really a KGB/FSB/Kremlin policing/intel arm masked as a religion.

Oh. Thanks for the explanation.

aggiehawg said:

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Not sure how I feel about this. As an American and retired attorney outlawing a religion goes against my principles. But the rest of the world doesn't necessarily have the same principles.

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I agree. Would rather see them arrest the clergy, deacons, etc… rather than ban the entire denomination.

nortex97 said:

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Interesting.

https://t.co/R1y0LsLN6V pic.twitter.com/D6mEJqT80b

— Clown World ™ 🤡 (@ClownWorld_) December 2, 2022

If I recall correctly, there are something like 3 or 5 orthodox denominations in Ukraine, and I am not sure how significant this is at all really. The primary Russian one has obviously been overtly political throughout.

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Actual headline of the article-

" Zelensky prepares to ban Ukrainian Orthodox Church institutions with affiliations to Moscow"

There already was a split of the Ukrainians from the Russian Orthodox church before the war started.... because they are headed by the heretic Kiril.

So the clown world winner should be the tweet headline writer.

The name of the church that has ties ot moscow is the Ukranian Orthodox Church (UOC) as opposed to the independent Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU). Only so many letters to make acronyms with...

Rossticus said:

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Russian President Vladimir Putin fell down the stairs and soiled himself this week https://t.co/QDDPS4KdpZ

— AlexandruC4 (@AlexandruC4) December 2, 2022

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If our intelligence is so good we know when Putin shat his pants we should know every move they're making.

The Moscow branch Orthodox priests are spies. I learned that from The Americans.