It seems cheaper and more effective to just buy a million suicide drones

Zobel said:

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that's how suppressive fire works...estimates for WWII range from 25k to 100k small arms rounds fired per casualty.

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All these current SF based movies have really skewed perception of actual warfare. People think you have armies of highly trained specialists combat gliding around and double tapping everything with Legolas type precision. Our training standard was two to the chest and one to the head which far as I am concerned is null and void with drugged up terrorists and modern body armor. Real life was mag dump center mass. And that is if you even had a solid sight of the enemy. Which was rare. I think Vietnam was even worse on the ratio of fires small arms to casualties.

Drones are changing everything though as mentioned above. The stuff you can do with a Mavic and a VOG17 grenade is pretty awesome. Definitely getting better use out of those belts of grenades for their AGM.

They may have overrun a maintenance area where damaged vehicles were being collected or repaired.

I'm waiting for the auto-aiming drones to enter the arena. There is zero reason for these custom grenade, mortar, and small arms drones to not have the ability to auto track targets. Every cell phone recognizes and tracks faces.

If I were a defense contractor working in this space I would be rushing prototypes to Ukraine for some field testing.

⚡️All three MiG-31K, which have been deployed at Machulishchy airfield since October 16, 2022, are flying to Russia.
These are MiG-31K with reg.numbers
RF-92462, RF-92339 and RF-92333.
Destination – Savasleika airfield (Nizhny Novgorod oblast, Russia).

— Belarusian Hajun project (@MotolkoHelp) December 1, 2022

Because of friendly fire, because energy processing for AI reduces range, payload, and cost. They need more, more, more now as opposed to better sometime in the future.

Also, Identifying targets is not a complaint/problem that Ukraine's drone operators are complaining about that I've seen discussed.

Any AI implementation would be better applied to survivability and counter EW, for example if jamming signal detected switch to home on emitter mode.

lb3 said:

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I'm waiting for the auto-aiming drones to enter the arena. There is zero reason for these custom grenade, mortar, and small arms drones to not have the ability to auto track targets. Every cell phone recognizes and tracks faces.

If I were a defense contractor working in this space I would be rushing prototypes to Ukraine for some field testing.

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Right up until someone important gets killed in a blue on blue drone incident.

I mean, we have JAG staff personally having to approve artillery. You think the US will release a swarm of Sky Net drones and hope for the best?!?

Waffledynamics said:

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⚡️All three MiG-31K, which have been deployed at Machulishchy airfield since October 16, 2022, are flying to Russia.
These are MiG-31K with reg.numbers
RF-92462, RF-92339 and RF-92333.
Destination – Savasleika airfield (Nizhny Novgorod oblast, Russia).

— Belarusian Hajun project (@MotolkoHelp) December 1, 2022

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Is this saying they "pulled back" out of potential range?

Good question. Or ready to escort the bombers?

I haven't heard of them doing much other than crash.

AgLA06 said:

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Good question. Or ready to escort the bombers?

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Against what?

Quote:

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I haven't heard of them doing much other than crash.

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That's pretty funny right there!

lb3 said:

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I'm waiting for the auto-aiming drones to enter the arena. There is zero reason for these custom grenade, mortar, and small arms drones to not have the ability to auto track targets. Every cell phone recognizes and tracks faces.

If I were a defense contractor working in this space I would be rushing prototypes to Ukraine for some field testing.

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There is considerable interest in this realm and progress IS being made.

Weapons procurement has one overarching consideration though.

Cost

Cost is end all, be all for the vast majority of our stuff. Sure we have expensive stuff but I think most people will be surprised at how much is denied every year simply due to cost. As our tech is more refined, the cost will come down and that is what drives weapons availability. But for now, auto bot level is not going to happen on scale. I mean just look at our SF guys standing next to normal infantry. They are not equipped the same simply because we can't afford to.

Eliminatus said:

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lb3 said:

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I'm waiting for the auto-aiming drones to enter the arena. There is zero reason for these custom grenade, mortar, and small arms drones to not have the ability to auto track targets. Every cell phone recognizes and tracks faces.

If I were a defense contractor working in this space I would be rushing prototypes to Ukraine for some field testing.

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There is considerable interest in this realm and progress IS being made.

Weapons procurement has one overarching consideration though.

Cost

Cost is end all, be all for the vast majority of our stuff. Sure we have expensive stuff but I think most people will be surprised at how much is denied every year simply due to cost. As our tech is more refined, the cost will come down and that is what drives weapons availability. But for now, auto bot level is not going to happen on scale. I mean just look at our SF guys standing next to normal infantry. They are not equipped the same simply because we can't afford to.

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Interesting. Developing an "auto-aiming" drone in the proverbial "backyard" would be pretty cheap and easy using open source code and off the shelf hardware. But my backyard uses different standards (tolerances etc.) than the US military.

URGENT: The Russian forces began to withdraw some of their units, as well as to evacuate collaborators from the front-line settlements of the Zaporizhzia region.

-General Staff of Ukraine

— NOËL 🇪🇺 🇺🇦 (@NOELreports) December 1, 2022

AgBank said:

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Eliminatus said:

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lb3 said:

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I'm waiting for the auto-aiming drones to enter the arena. There is zero reason for these custom grenade, mortar, and small arms drones to not have the ability to auto track targets. Every cell phone recognizes and tracks faces.

If I were a defense contractor working in this space I would be rushing prototypes to Ukraine for some field testing.

---

There is considerable interest in this realm and progress IS being made.

Weapons procurement has one overarching consideration though.

Cost

Cost is end all, be all for the vast majority of our stuff. Sure we have expensive stuff but I think most people will be surprised at how much is denied every year simply due to cost. As our tech is more refined, the cost will come down and that is what drives weapons availability. But for now, auto bot level is not going to happen on scale. I mean just look at our SF guys standing next to normal infantry. They are not equipped the same simply because we can't afford to.

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Interesting. Developing an "auto-aiming" drone in the proverbial "backyard" would be pretty cheap and easy using open source code and off the shelf hardware. But my backyard uses different standards (tolerances etc.) than the US military.

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Indeed. Much, much more different standards for sure. This is actually one of my favorite things to think and talk about. It's what led me to my current vocation.

The problem is that it has to be very, very good at what it does to be able to field it. And there are simply wayyyyy too many variables and nuances that prevent this from happening on a battlefield currently. Face recognition? We have one of the most diverse militaries out there. Won't work. Energy radiation recognition? Easy to spoof or simply not use. Weather conditions? Countermeasures? Logistics to keep operating? Range? Gaps in coverage and how to mitigate those gaps? Training needed to implement and maintain? And of course, cost?

Then you have to secure it. Hack proof it. I can tell you that signal jamming has been done for many decades and is a seasoned field of science. Signal hijacking is the newer younger model version of it. "Oh I can block you from operating EM in this area……orrrrr…..I can hijack your signal and take over your device or even worse, fool it with false data and lead you to make battlefield decisions based on what I want you to think".

It's a crazy field of war. America is very, very good at electronic warfare. The problem is that a lot of other countries are pretty good at it too. But it is something that is being worked on for sure.

Good article from a UK think tank about lessons learned so far. My biggest takeaway was just how much initial inventory is required to go to war in modern times.
https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/special-resources/preliminary-lessons-conventional-warfighting-russias-invasion-ukraine-february-july-2022

The arms manufacturer is a defence company sending arms to Ukraine. https://t.co/KMrIm6IWma

— Faytuks News Δ (@Faytuks) December 1, 2022

Oleshky is the main point of the drawdown according to Ukrainian sources

Russia had previously ordered civilians to leave within 15km of the river and its administration in Nova Khakhovka by the bank has withdrawn

— Samuel Ramani (@SamRamani2) December 1, 2022

It consists of almost 14 pages and contains a request for automotive engine parts such as pistons, oil pumps and ignition coils. There is also demand for bumpers and safety belts.

— MAKS 22🇺🇦 (@Maks_NAFO_FELLA) November 30, 2022

Also on the list are raw materials for the production of paper, paper bags and consumer packaging, materials and equipment for the production of textiles, in particular fabrics and dyes, and about 200 more items related to metallurgy.

— MAKS 22🇺🇦 (@Maks_NAFO_FELLA) November 30, 2022

Today's SITREP.

We have to improve our skills every day and supply our groups with modern equipment!

Every missed opportunity is someone's life😔

I am constantly working on these tasks, the results will be visible already tomorrow! 🫡

— Vlad Sokolov (@whatislove_rv) December 1, 2022

Man's ingenuity serving the devil's purpose.

But Ukraine is of no economic or strategic value to the US or the rest of the world.

I'm not following you here. I'm sure we'll ask for something in return for helping them eventually, but this is more about crippling Russia without losing a single soldier than Iraq.

74OA said:

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Man's ingenuity serving the devil's purpose.

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The slingshot worked for David, but David needed goliath to reach his destiny.

Russia is Ukraine's Goliath and they can use whatever works IMO.

AgLA06 said:

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I'm not following you here. I'm sure we'll ask for something in return for helping them eventually, but this is more about crippling Russia without losing a single soldier than Iraq.

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I'm poking fun at those who would let Russia walk in and set up house with no western opposition.

B-1 83 said:

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If only the Ukes could do the same. I'll go out on a limb and say that Orc airbase would never see it coming.

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Unless the Ukrainians inherited some long range bombers (Blinders, Bears, or Backfires) or long range missiles from the USSR that we don't know about, they don't have anything that can hit that base. Best info I have is that Ukraine's Blinders were retired and Backfires were scrapped according to the same treaty that sent nukes that were in Ukraine where the USSR dissolved back to Russia.

The US doesn't have anything ground launched we can send them, either. All of our Pershing II and ground-launched TLAMs were scrapped in accordance with the 1987 INF treaty.

We still have sea launched TLAMs and air launched cruise missiles with long enough range to hit that base, but I don't see us giving Tomahawk capable ships or strategic bombers to the Ukrainians.

What might be interesting is if we have any F-14s sitting in the Davis-Monthan boneyard, and Phoenix missiles squirreled away somewhere.

Ukraine actually had about 20 Tu-160's after the end of the USSR but they traded some to Russia for debt relief and scrapped the rest

Seeing Ukes pilot F14s for stand-off missile strikes into Russia would be one of those extra special things I'd love to see for a few reasons. Sadly, the chances of it happening are somewhere between none and lol. But, a guy can dream, though.

I wasn't thinking stand off missile strikes with the F-14/Phoenix combo so much as the possibility of intercepting the Russian bombers before they launch their cruise missiles.

It would probably also require AWACs or other airborne radar aircraft for target location and intercept direction.

AgLA06 said:

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I'm not following you here. I'm sure we'll ask for something in return for helping them eventually, but this is more about crippling Russia without losing a single soldier than Iraq.

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Pretty sure this was tongue in cheek. A reflection of Obama's strategic conclusion.

B-1 83 said:

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I'm poking fun at those who would let Russia walk in and set up house with no western opposition.

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You inadvertently trolled me too. I was about to roll up my sleeves, hop on my soap box and give you a long post complete with examples like:
1. Cardinal Rousseau (catholic cardinal) who engaged in his own proxy wars by supporting the protestants against the catholics
2. Bismarck's threading the needle with certain 'realpolitik' strategies to weaken the Austrian and French empires

This figure seems extraordinarily low IMO:

Quote:

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Late Thursday, Mykhailo Podolyak, a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, relayed new figures about Ukrainian soldiers killed in battle, while noting that the number of injured troops was higher and civilian casualty counts were "significant."

"We have official figures from the general staff, we have official figures from the top command, and they amount to between 10,000 and 12,500-13,000 killed," Podolyak told Channel 24.

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/official-says-over-10000-ukrainian-troops-killed-in-war/ar-AA14OFCW

If they've only lost 13,000 troops they are doing remarkably well. Seems a little too low to be believable IMO.