***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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Rossticus
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@tipofthespear42 is Ryan Hendrickson, for those who don't know. Some of America's best volunteering for the effort over there.


Rossticus
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Waffledynamics
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AG
Waffledynamics
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AG


Russia pushes all along the line again.
Rossticus
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Rossticus
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/nov/21/russians-accused-of-burning-bodies-at-kherson-landfill
Gaius Julius Bevo
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Peter Zeihan says the Swedes can implicate the Russians in Nordstream bombings. If so, they get the terrorist nation label and the USA will be forced to stop doing business with countries that still do business with Russia. Hmm, seems like this might be a problem for USA/German affairs.

Rossticus
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Rossticus
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Ag In Ok
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AG
I know the newer Russian S400 / S500 are respected, but i didn't know our patriots would struggle against cruise missiles….
Not a Bot
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They are likely quite good against cruise missiles and planes, but demonstrated a struggle against ballistic trajectories in the Gulf War. A lot of upgrades since then but largely untested in real combat situations.

The munitions are also incredibly expensive. There are cheaper alternatives available and more in development to take out these cheaper drones.
Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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agent-maroon said:

So they agreed to give back what they stole from the Ukes in the first place? Such a deal!
Great. Ukaine says absolutely, then pulls a Russia and continues the forward press. Karma.

Person Not Capable of Pregnancy
Waffledynamics
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Why even bother trying to advance? Seems like such a waste of men.
Rossticus
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GAC06
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Ag In Ok said:

I know the newer Russian S400 / S500 are respected, but i didn't know our patriots would struggle against cruise missiles….


Patriots are mostly for long range, high altitude targets. Cruise missiles are typically low altitude targets that would require an extensive and well integrated radar network to engage. Also as mentioned above, patriots are expensive and not a good weapon to target match for conventional cruise missiles.
Rossticus
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80sGeorge
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I get the missile/drone for SAM strategy but given air defense support everyone keeps giving the Ukes I don't think it will work out like they think.

Add to that the demonstrated ability that ground troops have shown in taking out helos and some fixed wing with manpads?

Would really like to see UK get some F16s just in case.
Rossticus
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GAC06
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400km seems… off
80sGeorge
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Based on Wiki it could be 4,000 miles.

Endurance: 25 hours

Top speed: 192 mph
GAC06
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Yeah likely not that high, as max speed is pretty much never max range but 400km is way low
lb3
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Could the 400km be max combat radius? With a bunch of hellfire missiles slung under the wings it's aerodynamics would be pretty dirty. That's a very different mission configuration than for ferry range.
JB!98
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lb3 said:

Could the 400km be max combat radius? With a bunch of hellfire missiles slung under the wings it's aerodynamics would be pretty dirty. That's a very different mission configuration than for ferry range.
I think the combat radius is a lot more (likely still classified), but these things are made to have a very long on station time. If you have been close to one they are bigger than you would think. The wings are designed like a glider and made to just cruise at low speed on station watching until needed.

Edit, I think you would exchange combat radius for loiter time.
GAC06
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Even with 400km as combat radius that's really low. Different sources says 25 or 30 hours endurance. Taking the more conservative 25 hours, a 400km combat radius means a trip at 32kph.
GAC06
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Yeah they're made for endurance and even at low speeds should do a lot better than 400km combat radius
lb3
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Not been up close but am about 15 miles south of Ellington field and spot the occasionally but never seen them armed.
JB!98
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GAC06 said:

Even with 400km as combat radius that's really low. Different sources says 25 or 30 hours endurance. Taking the more conservative 25 hours, a 400km combat radius means a trip at 32kph.
With those long wings, I wonder what the stall speed is on one of those things. They may loiter at a speed not much higher than that.
GAC06
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lb3 said:

Not been up close but am about 15 miles south of Ellington field and spot the occasionally but never seen them armed.


They wouldn't be armed there
GAC06
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JB!98 said:

GAC06 said:

Even with 400km as combat radius that's really low. Different sources says 25 or 30 hours endurance. Taking the more conservative 25 hours, a 400km combat radius means a trip at 32kph.
With those long wings, I wonder what the stall speed is on one of those things. They may loiter at a speed not much higher than that.


I don't know the answer but I bet it's higher than that by a good bit. 32kph is 20 miles per hour
JB!98
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GAC06 said:

JB!98 said:

GAC06 said:

Even with 400km as combat radius that's really low. Different sources says 25 or 30 hours endurance. Taking the more conservative 25 hours, a 400km combat radius means a trip at 32kph.
With those long wings, I wonder what the stall speed is on one of those things. They may loiter at a speed not much higher than that.


I don't know the answer but I bet it's higher than that by a good bit. 32kph is 20 miles per hour
Sorry I read 32kph as 32kts.

Another edit: Just saw where the typical sail plane stall speed is 30-35kts. This thing's would be much higher. I will craw back in my hole and let people who know what they are talking about handle it.
lb3
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GAC06 said:

JB!98 said:

GAC06 said:

Even with 400km as combat radius that's really low. Different sources says 25 or 30 hours endurance. Taking the more conservative 25 hours, a 400km combat radius means a trip at 32kph.
With those long wings, I wonder what the stall speed is on one of those things. They may loiter at a speed not much higher than that.


I don't know the answer but I bet it's higher than that by a good bit. 32kph is 20 miles per hour
Combat radius means max payload weight, high power settings, and shorter endurance. Max endurance missions are with clean airframes, low payload weight, and low power settings.
JoeAggie1010
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GAC06 said:

Ag In Ok said:

I know the newer Russian S400 / S500 are respected, but i didn't know our patriots would struggle against cruise missiles….


Patriots are mostly for long range, high altitude targets. Cruise missiles are typically low altitude targets that would require an extensive and well integrated radar network to engage. Also as mentioned above, patriots are expensive and not a good weapon to target match for conventional cruise missiles.
They can track and target Cruise Missiles, but it depends what profile they are in. Also, Cruise Missiles can be tricky due to their Nap of the Earth flight path.
GAC06
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I know, and if 400km is the combat radius this twitter dude heard, I bet it's with hours of loiter time
GAC06
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JoeAggie1010 said:

GAC06 said:

Ag In Ok said:

I know the newer Russian S400 / S500 are respected, but i didn't know our patriots would struggle against cruise missiles….


Patriots are mostly for long range, high altitude targets. Cruise missiles are typically low altitude targets that would require an extensive and well integrated radar network to engage. Also as mentioned above, patriots are expensive and not a good weapon to target match for conventional cruise missiles.
They can track and target Cruise Missiles, but it depends what profile they are in. Also, Cruise Missiles can be tricky due to their Nap of the Earth flight path.


They can. But they've been increasingly modified/optimized to target ballistic missiles. The low altitude profile of most cruise missiles means you'd need more radar sites. It's not a great match compared to localized NASAMS and IRIS-T plus stuff like gepards
JoeAggie1010
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GAC06 said:

JoeAggie1010 said:

GAC06 said:

Ag In Ok said:

I know the newer Russian S400 / S500 are respected, but i didn't know our patriots would struggle against cruise missiles….


Patriots are mostly for long range, high altitude targets. Cruise missiles are typically low altitude targets that would require an extensive and well integrated radar network to engage. Also as mentioned above, patriots are expensive and not a good weapon to target match for conventional cruise missiles.
They can track and target Cruise Missiles, but it depends what profile they are in. Also, Cruise Missiles can be tricky due to their Nap of the Earth flight path.


They can. But they've been increasingly modified/optimized to target ballistic missiles. The low altitude profile of most cruise missiles means you'd need more radar sites. It's not a great match compared to localized NASAMS and IRIS-T plus stuff like gepards
I agree mostly, as PATRIOT is primarily Missile Defense, in the lower tier coverage. They are also integrated. I don't want to get into more specifics.
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