Grapes said:
wangus12 said:
docb said:
Interestingly I had a Russian middle aged man and his wife in my office yesterday and briefly chatted about the war. The man was pretty adamant that what Putin is doing is justified. I was surprised to hear this from a Russian that lives here.
So ge was totally fine accepting that Putin's decision is likely going to destroy his country? Did you ask if he was volunteering for conscription?
I find it surprising that this thread is so one sided. There is a significant block of the world that thinks the Ukraine, NATO and the US are corrupt as **** and the ones in the wrong here.
From Putin's rant at the start of the "special operation" criticizing Lenin for allowing Ukrainian independence 100 years ago to Putin-aligned Russian nationalists calling on Ukrainians to be sent to Siberia, it's clear there was no real justification for this war other than land grab and ethnic nonsense. The overthrow of the Russian puppet regime in 2014 was a pretext for complete annexation which has been Putin's goal since the 1990s. He wants the Russian Empire back in the worst way. Nationalists in Russia have been calling for the complete elimination of Ukraine for decades. Blaming the US, NATO, "nazis", or Ukrainian corruption for the war is just buying into the false pretext.
Even if there were actual justification for invasion (an actual threat to the Russian homeland), the way they waged the war nullifies any justification they had. The indiscriminate shelling of civilian centers and the leveling of entire cities is and was never justified. They sent in conscripts with little training and forced them to the front lines to be ground up. It is clear Russian leadership places no value on human life other than their own.
It is telling that only a few countries voted against condemning the war and very, very few have offered material support to Russia. When you are getting reassurances from Zimbabwe you are probably not on the best side. Even Belarus has refused to sent troops up to this point. Kazakhstan is moving away from Russia. Armenia saw how worthless the CSTO is and will likely move closer to Europe. Loose allies see the writing on the wall.
