I mean

I'm not so sure about the MBT in the European theater

agent-maroon said:

---

The rus are putting their incompetence on display for the whole world to see. How the hell do you lose your flagship to a country lacking a functional navy? Seriously, how?

---

About 5 pages back or yesterday I posted our GH went in the AO. I bet it located the ship, UKR moved/prepped ordinance in the dark, and today GH went back in confirmed position for targeting and possibly interfered with early radar/defense system of the ship. This is also likely why RT is claiming our involvement.

FYI above, day here is night there and vice versa.

NATO countries, yes. But nato countries are free to act independently and do not represent all 30 NATO nations and are supplying aid at Ukraine's request.

It's the implication that Ukraine has been manipulated into this as a hapless puppet and that without NATO they'd be joyously rejoining the motherland that's a crock. And that's absolutely the angle that Russia is taking.

Quote:

---

The information part is decided by British intel services. Intelligence is covered by the Americans. The specialists servicing military kit are foreign mercenaries. Ukrainians fulfil the role of cannon fodder.

---

Is he wrong, though?

JFABNRGR said:

---

agent-maroon said:

---

The rus are putting their incompetence on display for the whole world to see. How the hell do you lose your flagship to a country lacking a functional navy? Seriously, how?

---

About 5 pages back or yesterday I posted our GH went in the AO. I bet it located the ship, UKR moved/prepped ordinance in the dark, and today GH went back in confirmed position for targeting and possibly interfered with early radar/defense system of the ship. This is also likely why RT is claiming our involvement.

FYI above, day here is night there and vice versa.

---

Hahahaha. Love it. Pump that isht straight into my veins.

Math is a universal language. Easy peezy. ISR GH overhead.

BusterAg said:

---

Quote:

---

The information part is decided by British intel services. Intelligence is covered by the Americans. The specialists servicing military kit are foreign mercenaries. Ukrainians fulfil the role of cannon fodder.

---

Is he wrong, though?

---

if the full weigh of NATO went after Russia, how long would it take (sans nuclear weapons) to defeat it at this point?

GH?

Rossticus said:

---

NATO countries, yes. But nato countries are free to act independently and do not represent all 30 NATO nations and are supplying aid at Ukraine's request.

It's the implication that Ukraine has been manipulated into this as a hapless puppet and that without NATO they'd be joyously rejoining the motherland that's a crock. And that's absolutely the angle that Russia is taking.

---

Indeed. All good propaganda starts out with a grain of truth.

It's baffling to me to see people believe Russia's side of the information war. The Ukrainians have so much more information at their disposal that even if they lie, it's pretty much an exaggeration and not necessarily a fabrication most of the time.

shiftyandquick said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Quote:

---

The information part is decided by British intel services. Intelligence is covered by the Americans. The specialists servicing military kit are foreign mercenaries. Ukrainians fulfil the role of cannon fodder.

---

Is he wrong, though?

---

if the full weigh of NATO went after Russia, how long would it take (sans nuclear weapons) to defeat it at this point?

---

He clarified, though.

I mean, we say we were fighting China in Vietnam. Its an equivocation, for sure, but there is a lot of truth to it.

This war is probably over by now if Ukraine was fighting it by itself.

I regret not screen shotting the track. Somebody authorized a signature yesterday.

This ship had to be the most expensive piece of equipment in the whole war right? I'm still in shock that the Ukrainians sunk it.

Furthermore, does this kill the whole fleet since I read that this one was providing the majority of the air defense for the rest of the ships (and southern Ukraine for that matter)

Bird of prey. Travels the Globe.

Premium said:

---

So at this point can Russia "win"?

I think we're getting caught up in this as if it has to end within days or weeks but Putin likely has years on the table. In a society of instant gratification I think we're getting caught up in this ending one way or the other, soon.

So can Putin take this thing years and will that outlast international support?

---

He has something like a year of gold left for Russia to continue to import some level of goods. Nobody is taking rubles.

74OA said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

Someone mentioned that this may be the most significant military naval loss to a country since WW2. Can anyone think of one approaching this in the last 80 years?

---

The sinking of the General Belgrano during the Falklands War?

---

This could be bigger.

The Belgrano was an old WW2 US Navy surplus cruiser , the Moskva is a modern warship replete with sophisticated air and maritime radars and air defense weapons systems.

If the news is true, the Moskva would be a much bigger loss, both in terms of morale and military capability.

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I think it’s time to evacuate the Ukrainians Kyiv military HQ’s

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) April 14, 2022

---

If I was any NATO ship captain right now, I would be on high alert for russian SLCM in the Mediterranean or Baltic seas.

FriscoKid said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

shiftyandquick said:

---

BusterAg said:

---

Quote:

---

The information part is decided by British intel services. Intelligence is covered by the Americans. The specialists servicing military kit are foreign mercenaries. Ukrainians fulfil the role of cannon fodder.

---

Is he wrong, though?

---

if the full weigh of NATO went after Russia, how long would it take (sans nuclear weapons) to defeat it at this point?

---

He clarified, though.

I mean, we say we were fighting China in Vietnam. Its an equivocation, for sure, but there is a lot of truth to it.

This war is probably over by now if Ukraine was fighting it by itself.

---

Ukraine is 100% leading this fight. UK is probably #2.

But, sending a bunch of weapons and intel doesn't win a war. Just look at Afghanistan. They had everything they needed and they didn't fight. The Ukrainian people are winning this war and the west is feeding them stuff, but it's a crime to not give most of the credit to Ukraine.

---

This is fair too. The Uke's are the ones paying the blood price, and they are fighting like lions. It doesn't take much courage to ship someone else Javelins.

But, I don't think they could do it without the help. If you are Russia and you are going to equivocate, saying the the UKE's couldn't do it without help is right.

I guess the way it was phrased was not as kind to Uke, but I think that they now realize that the war with Uke men and women and the West's war toys will be very hard to win.

I'd agree except, how many times have we said that and been proven wrong.

JFABNRGR said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I think it’s time to evacuate the Ukrainians Kyiv military HQ’s

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) April 14, 2022

---

If I was any NATO ship captain right now, I would be on high alert for russian SLCM in the Mediterranean or Baltic seas.

---

That would be a horrible move and that would end this conflict tomorrow (unless Putin goes nuclear).

If he hits a NATO ship then all hell breaks loose at this point. You gotta believe that every military spot in Russia is currently targeted. If Russia is getting their asses kicked by Ukraine then the west will finish them off in less than a day.

They are not dumb enough to try and sink a NATO ship.

Waffledynamics said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I think it’s time to evacuate the Ukrainians Kyiv military HQ’s

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) April 14, 2022

---

If I was any NATO ship captain right now, I would be on high alert for russian SLCM in the Mediterranean or Baltic seas.

---

I would be shocked if NATO ships got hit. Russia cannot be that stupid.

---

yea, because if those ships are in the Med or the North Atlantic when hypothetically hit, from NATO treaty perspective that's the same as if they hit a NATO country directly at home and triggers an article 5 response.

HTownAg98 said:

---

It's kind of nice to be fighting a proxy war alongside someone that actually wants to fight for once.

Books will be written about sinking this ship. I'll buy a copy.

---

Like the sinking of the Bismark.

PA24 said:

---

The future for warships are much like tanks. Sitting ducks with today's GPS type drones and tactical weapons.

---

Y'all need to stop with this line of thinking tanks are weapons of the past. If you can tell me you've been a tanker or been in an armored BCT, then I'll start listening (because I have been). These wild assumptions carry zero weight and I implore you to do more research before making these statements in the future.

Rossticus said:

---

I'd agree except, how many times have we said that and been proven wrong.

---

Lets say they do. Whos ship is it? Weakest in support to UKR so far, strongest (which may not even have a ship), or somewhere in between? Or is it another metric?

No notice yet of LR missile launches into UKR, are they low out or deciding on what to target in or out of theatre?

Waffledynamics said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

Agthatbuilds said:

---

I think it’s time to evacuate the Ukrainians Kyiv military HQ’s

— ELINT News (@ELINTNews) April 14, 2022

---

If I was any NATO ship captain right now, I would be on high alert for russian SLCM in the Mediterranean or Baltic seas.

---

I would be shocked if NATO ships got hit. Russia cannot be that stupid.

---

Yeah. That would be suicide.

GarryowenAg said:

---

PA24 said:

---

The future for warships are much like tanks. Sitting ducks with today's GPS type drones and tactical weapons.

---

Y'all need to stop with this line of thinking tanks are weapons of the past. If you can tell me you've been a tanker or been in an armored BCT, then I'll start listening (because I have been). These wild assumptions carry zero weight and I implore you to do more research before making these statements in the future.

---

I'd honestly love to hear your educated opinion on this. It does seem to me like the usefulness and Survivability of tanks is in doubt. I do realize that the Russians are absolutely misusing their armor and their tactics are largely to blame but please do let us know more.

BusterAg said:

---

GH?

---

Global Hawk
US UAS
General Atomics stated they would provide UAS/UAV to Ukraine if the USG approved

Waffledynamics said:

---

Rossticus said:

---

In Mariupol, units of the 36th Marine Brigade made complex maneuvers to break through and joined the Azov Bataillon. As a result, Azov received significant reinforcements, the Marines escaped defeat in parts and received additional opportunities — Oleksiy Arestovych

— Hromadske Int. (@Hromadske) April 13, 2022

---

Sorry to bring this post back up, but would this not mean resources will drain faster? They aren't getting sufficiently resupplied, if at all, in that city.

---

Really, though, can we address this? How is this necessarily a good thing? Sure, they're not separated, but I have questions on the longevity of the supplies that are now being more deeply tapped into. Do some of you know something I don't? This seems like something that might hasten Mariupol's downfall, even marginally.

I wish they had some relief.

If the MOSKVA was sunk as a result of an attack by Neptune ASCMs launched by Ukraine, it becomes largest tonnage *warship* (11.5K GT) sunk by cruise missiles. Atlantic Conveyor, a container ship pressed into service for the Falklands as a mobile sea base( 14.9K GT), was largest. pic.twitter.com/daOKgZYjde

— (((steeljawscribe)))🇺🇦 (@steeljawscribe) April 14, 2022

One interesting historical tidbit is this would be the first sunk Russian Cruiser since 1941.

— OSINT UK (@jon96179496) April 14, 2022