***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

7,599,564 Views | 47846 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by sclaff
PJYoung
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Rossticus said:

Definitely Americans in Ukraine.



OdessaAg
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PJYoung said:

Rossticus said:

Definitely Americans in Ukraine.






Badass!
ABATTBQ11
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wangus12 said:

Rossticus said:

"There will be severe consequences of the like you've never witnessed if you join NATO!"

"On second thought… maybe we'll just 'rebalance' ".

Just. Like. We. Thought. Get bent you half-witted clown state.


If only they'd get it thru their thick skulls that the only country that has any interest in invading that ****hole country are the Chinese


Dear Russia,

You don't need to be afraid of Western aggression because you have nothing worth taking. We're more than happy to money whip you for buy your natural resources because it's infinitely cheaper since we're so rich and you're so poor after you decided to roll with communism for 75 years and we didn't. Please stop being insecure little *****es and thinking everyone wants your ****hole country.


Sincerely,

The West
txags92
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ABATTBQ11 said:

wangus12 said:

Rossticus said:

"There will be severe consequences of the like you've never witnessed if you join NATO!"

"On second thought… maybe we'll just 'rebalance' ".

Just. Like. We. Thought. Get bent you half-witted clown state.


If only they'd get it thru their thick skulls that the only country that has any interest in invading that ****hole country are the Chinese


Dear Russia,

You don't need to be afraid of Western aggression because you have nothing worth taking. We're more than happy to money whip you for buy your natural resources because it's infinitely cheaper since we're so rich and you're so poor after you decided to roll with communism for 75 years and we didn't. Please stop being insecure little *****es and thinking everyone wants your ****hole country.


Sincerely,

The West
There really is a sense of the Russians sliding a stick into their own front spokes about all of this. They are so scared of their neighbors allying with the west that they feel compelled to invade their neighbors. Which then makes more of their neighbors want to side with the west, thereby increasing the perceived threat in Russia's eyes.
P.U.T.U
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MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.
SOP for the USA is every 5th round is a tracer. I have heard of some countries doing anywhere from 3-6
aggiehawg
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Any maritime lawyers around here? What are the available remedies against Russia essentially blockading the entire Black Sea and which court?
Rossticus
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Paranoid psychosis is a dangerous mental illness. It's even more dangerous when it's endemic to the bulk of a nation and its leadership.
MouthBQ98
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oldord said:

txags92 said:

FriscoKid said:



Are some of those rounds deflecting off? Is that what we are seeing?
Yes, looks like deflections off of the tank or other surfaces.
I only saw one that might have stuck or hit a flat surface. Is the rear armor of a T-80 sufficient to absorb a 0 angle/pitch 30MM round?


APFSDS Ammunition for the British 30mm cannon will penetrate 100mm rolled steel at 0 degrees.
Rossticus
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HTownAg98
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aggiehawg said:

Any maritime lawyers around here? What are the available remedies against Russia essentially blockading the entire Black Sea and which court?
A letter of marque and reprisal?
Rossticus
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I really wish Russia would get their justification straight and stick with it. As illogical as all the rest have been, this may be the most incoherent.

74OA
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Today's SITREP.
AGS-R-TUFF
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Rossticus said:

I really wish Russia would get their justification straight and stick with it. As illogical as all the rest have been, this may be the most incoherent.


More mumbo jumbo from Peskov…seems like a veiled "don't try and take back Crimea" threat to the Ukes.

And the answer should be GTFO of our country you murderous liars.
ATX_AG_08
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MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.


30mm is what the A-10 shoots and we call them "tank busters". So I'm assuming multiple rounds would cause real damage. Of course also dependent on the type of rounds being used.
txags92
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ATX_AG_08 said:

MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.


30mm is what the A-10 shoots and we call them "tank busters". So I'm assuming multiple rounds would cause real damage. Of course also dependent on the type of rounds being used.
Hitting from above makes a big difference in how lethal those rounds are against armored vehicles. Most are not as heavily armored on the top.
ATX_AG_08
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BQ78
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The only effective recourse is to sink the blockaders, not a legal solution for you but rather a military one that is infallible.

This is no different than the Iranians messing with the Straits of Hormuz.
Ulysses90
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AgLA06 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

txags92 said:

EastSideAg2002 said:

At what point will the West be unable to send armor to Ukraine that is old Soviet equipment? All the countries that are sending it are sending based on the principle that the US will be able to backfill that equipment. Does the US have that much old equipment in inventory?

Also, if the war in eastern Ukraine stalemates for months/years, is there any new platforms the West could train the Ukrainians in that time on?
I read somewhere that we have 3,000 M1A1 tanks stored somewhere with no plans to use them again.

Regarding the 2nd question, I can't see this going on beyond another couple of months at the rate Russia is losing equipment. Russia can't build anymore tanks right now, and they will not be able to continue to maintain alot of their other equipment very soon due to the lack of available spare parts. With the Ukes getting a steady supply of guided munitions and gaining experience with the systems, they are going to become more, not less lethal as a fighting force. If the war stalemates and the Russians are forced to dig in and stay stationary, they will be sitting ducks for Uke artillery and drone strikes. My opinion is that this is over in 3 months or less one way or another.


This. Russian capabilities are degrading as Ukrainians' are increasing. The longer this goes on, the faster the Russians will lose men and equipment as the disparity grows. Their planned offensive in the east may be their undoing. Everyone knows it's coming, and they're likely going to be at a huge disadvantage walking into a minefield of ambushes.
If they have half a brain, it won't be from the east. The east will actually be the great feint they lied about Kiev. It will be a penser from the northeast and southeast to encircle the eastern portion of the county. Then hit Kiev again from the north and east.

Yes, every day this goes on Ukraine re-arms. The reality is they only have so many professional soldiers and every day that number drops. Russia is will to throw fodder to absorb munitions. Ukraine can't.

If Ukraine can't push them out in the next month, the war of attrition starts to make long term success much more difficult unless Poland, a coalition of ex-soviet countries, or NATO put boots on the ground.




The problem for the Russians is that to form pincers you need mobility. To have mobility you need functioning log-trains. The Russians began this war with a truck fleet and CONLOG that was abandoned by western militaries during or shortly after WW II.



Their Russians have run out of functional tanks that are of later than 1980s vintage. Even their old museum pieces would have to be shipped by train for the edges of the empire and then, they have nobody to crew them. That won't stop them from putting the spring class of conscripts into tanks but it isn't going to make them an effective fighting force.

The Russian Army will move at a snail's pace until they get killed one by one. There is no more grand maneuver left in their bag of tricks. They can barely keep themselves fed and haven't shown an ability to keep themselves fueled.

They will try to demonstrate otherwise but the Russian Army is past the point of culmination. They will try to convince the world otherwise but shelling cities doesn't equate to offensive capability to seize and hold ground or to achieve surprise against the team with home field advantage.

I believe that the war of attrition favors the Ukrainian army over the Russian army but the Ukrainian civilians lose big regardless.
Rossticus
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The Radicalization of Russia. Putin wants to turn this into a holy war. Sick.



ATX_AG_08
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ATX_AG_08 said:

MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.


30mm is what the A-10 shoots and we call them "tank busters". So I'm assuming multiple rounds would cause real damage. Of course also dependent on the type of rounds being used.
And here's what one of those bad boys look like (non-sabot round).



Cant get that to orient correctly w/o being huge....my apologies.

Rossticus
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aggiehawg
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Wonder if that Russian officer Beseda will be released from house arrest since a few of his "recruited assets" did just enough to get caught.
rgag12
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Rossticus said:

I really wish Russia would get their justification straight and stick with it. As illogical as all the rest have been, this may be the most incoherent.




I agree that it probably isn't one of the reasons Russia started the war, however I think he might be right in that a NATO member Ukraine could create extremely hairy situations for the west.

If Ukraine had joined NATO, and then invaded Crimea, (it's own territory), would you want the west to join the conflict? NATO is primarily a defensive alliance, but many posters on here want to join the current war as they see Russia unjustifiably invading a sovereign Ukraine. Wouldn't Ukraine invading, (or perhaps you could argue counter-attacking 8 years later), Crimea be the same thing?

The Ukrainians would definitely argue this and try to force the west into a war with Russia.
G Martin 87
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Rossticus said:

The Radicalization of Russia. Putin wants to turn this into a holy war. Sick.




Remember that Russians define a "nationalist" as a citizen of another country that is against the other peoples of Russia. This is especially true of citizens of The Ukraine claiming to be Ukrainians instead of Russians. The Patriarch's own words prove it.
SPF250
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ATX_AG_08 said:

ATX_AG_08 said:

MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.


30mm is what the A-10 shoots and we call them "tank busters". So I'm assuming multiple rounds would cause real damage. Of course also dependent on the type of rounds being used.
And here's what one of those bad boys look like (non-sabot round).



Cant get that to orient correctly w/o being huge....my apologies.


Interesting that you have one of those stuffed in a kitchen drawer and available for a comparison pic.
USAFAg
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Rossticus said:

Paranoid psychosis is a dangerous mental illness. It's even more dangerous when it's endemic to the bulk of a nation and its leadership.


Plus generations of people suffering the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome creating a nation of clinical morons.

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
Jackie Daytona
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probably a dummy round

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/928468774
Rossticus
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I don't see that happening because

1) a vote to invoke article 5 has to be (a.) unanimous and (b.) can't be trigged by the offensive actions of a member in aggression on the sovereign soil of another country against that country. The situation between, say, Poland and Russia in Ukraine is different and gray because it wouldn't be an aggressive attack against sovereign Russia territory.

2) Ukraine couldn't have joined NATO while Russia occupied Crimea because of the charter's prohibition on accepting countries with active territorial disputes (for this specific reason).

That's why this line of justification is bunk. Ukraine was prohibited from joining by the very fact that Russia was already in Crimea.
Rossticus
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USA*** said:

Rossticus said:

Paranoid psychosis is a dangerous mental illness. It's even more dangerous when it's endemic to the bulk of a nation and its leadership.


Plus generations of people suffering the effects of fetal alcohol syndrome creating a nation of clinical morons.


The effects certainly compound exponentially under these circumstances. Morons with nukes.
ATX_AG_08
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My kitchen identifies as an armory thank you very much. And no, I was actually kind enough to go dig it out of a box for y'all.
gigemhilo
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OdessaAg said:

PJYoung said:

Rossticus said:

Definitely Americans in Ukraine.






Badass!
Met with a guy the other day who is recent former Navy. Lets just say he "knows people".

And those people are silent right now.

He also got a phone invite recently from entities putting certain groups of former military together. He decided not to go, but many of his friends did.


74OA
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SPF250 said:

ATX_AG_08 said:

ATX_AG_08 said:

MouthBQ98 said:

I imagine not every round has a tracer on it but I could be wrong. The rear hull armor is only going to be an inch or two thick at most so HEAT or APFSDS could penetrate and kill the engine or start a fire, disabling the vehicle.


30mm is what the A-10 shoots and we call them "tank busters". So I'm assuming multiple rounds would cause real damage. Of course also dependent on the type of rounds being used.
And here's what one of those bad boys look like (non-sabot round).



Cant get that to orient correctly w/o being huge....my apologies.


Interesting that you have one of those stuffed in a kitchen drawer and available for a comparison pic.
It's an inert training projectile (blue) re-mounted on expended brass (empty). Most anyone who passed through the A-10 community got one as a farewell gift of some sort, usually engraved.
aggiehawg
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Quote:

60 Russian soldiers 'stage a mutiny and refuse to fight in Ukraine and now face prison sentences'
  • The paratroopers from Pskov were sent to Belarus as part of the invasion force
  • They refused to fight and were sent back to their base in disgrace, reports say
  • Some have been dismissed and branded 'cowards' while others face jail

Quote:

Around 60 Russian paratroopers have staged a mutiny and refused to fight in Ukraine, local reports say.
The men, who were from key airborne forces headquarters Pskov in northern Russia, could now face jail sentences for the insubordination.

The refusenik troops had been moved to Belarus as part of the invasion force but after their mutiny were sent in disgrace back to their base in Pskov.
Quote:

Some have been dismissed and branded 'cowards' while others are set to face the Russian equivalent of a court martial with likely jail sentences.
Quote:

Defence minister Sergei Shoigu is reported to have sent one of his deputies to Pskov to handle the insubordination.
Quote:

Ukraine claimed that the troops were elite paratroopers but this has not yet been confirmed, even though Pskov is a key HQ of Russia's most elite airborne forces.

Russian opposition outlet Pskovskaya Guberniya reported: 'About 60 servicemen from Pskov refused to go to war on Ukrainian territory, according to our sources.

'After the first days of the war, they were first brought to the Republic of Belarus, and then they returned to their base in Pskov.

Quote:

'Most of them are currently being dismissed, but some are threatened with criminal cases.'
It is the latest of several cases of Russian troops refusing to obey Vladimir Putin's orders to invade Ukraine and 'deNazify' the country.

An earlier captive Russian soldier from Pskov, Vladimir Safronov, 23, told his Ukrainian interrogators about problems with rations, and how his officers were looting the civilian population.

'Things are bad with food, we are constantly saving it,' he said.

'Very often we have a situation that a ration for one person is shared between two people.

'We are eating mostly what we find inside [civilian] houses [in occupied Ukraine].
He said: 'There is a lot of looting, I've personally seen it.

'I don't support it, it was mainly senior sergeants and the commander who did it…

'I saw civilians who were hiding, people who were unable to evacuate, who lived in constant fear.
'I felt awfully sorry for them, it was scary to find them.'

Earlier reports said that elite OMON special forces troops from Khakassia had refused to fight.
In another case, troops from unofficial statelet South Ossetia reportedly went on foot back to their homes after refusing to participate on hostilities in Ukraine.
Daily mail
Rossticus
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It's purdy.
Burrus86
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FriscoKid said:



Are some of those rounds deflecting off? Is that what we are seeing?
That is how you build a fire under somebody's ass!
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