***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

8,072,011 Views | 48752 Replies | Last: 7 hrs ago by SamjamAg
ttu_85
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Waffledynamics said:

Ag In Ok said:

Rossticus said:




I don't agree based on current events. If it were that close, there wouldn't be a loss of isium (sp) and Russian breakthroughs along the Donetsk front.


Remember that the Germans made significant gains during the Kaiserschlacht at the end of WWI. They also could not sustain them because of major logistical problems, which lead to their initially successful offensive to fail.

I'm not saying the optimistic prediction is right or wrong, but rather that you can still see some gains being made by the ultimate loser in the conflict.


And the Battle of the Bulge. The Germans had gains and breakouts, but ultimately they lacked the fuel and resources necessary to maintain their gains or move further. They were pushed back relatively quickly and ultimately defeated within 4 months in a much larger conflict.
That and US air power. Once the skies cleared it was happy hunting
MouthBQ98
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AG
Agreed., most recent Russian offensives have been localized battalion strength probes and they keep over extending, getting ambushed, or strung out and unable to sustain their operation, then counterattacked when low on fuel and ammo and forced to retreat hastily.
aezmvp
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Waffledynamics said:

Ag In Ok said:

Rossticus said:




I don't agree based on current events. If it were that close, there wouldn't be a loss of isium (sp) and Russian breakthroughs along the Donetsk front.


Remember that the Germans made significant gains during the Kaiserschlacht at the end of WWI. They also could not sustain them because of major logistical problems, which lead to their initially successful offensive to fail.

I'm not saying the optimistic prediction is right or wrong, but rather that you can still see some gains being made by the ultimate loser in the conflict.


And the Battle of the Bulge. The Germans had gains and breakouts, but ultimately they lacked the fuel and resources necessary to maintain their gains or move further. They were pushed back relatively quickly and ultimately defeated within 4 months in a much larger conflict.
I'm not sure I think 50 BTG's are out of the fight. 30ish or maybe 40 at the high end. Either way it explains Russia's inaction. It takes a long time and superior people to reconstitute groups, resupply, reinforce, reorient and then get them back into the fight. And again if they moved 200,000 troops up to the border a good percentage of those were not combat troops or trigger pullers in our vernacular.

If the Ukes are claiming 13,500 Russians killed. USIC is saying (publicly) 8,000. I think we're somewhat north of the USIC but below the Ukes claim. Based on numbers the US calculations line up with the minimum of the Open Intel community and they're backlogged verifying things. So my conservative guess is 10,000. So call this 42-44k casualties including POW. Their combat and forward supply units are probably in real trouble manpower wise. If they are indeed at 70% (my guess USIC is 60%) of claimed destruction (I bet the air loses are much more inflated than the Tank/IFV/AFV/APC/Truck counts) then the Russians have lost over 30% of their pre-invasion armor. A bit higher in their IFV/AFV/APC. They're going to have a devil of a time regaining the offensive without a LOT of units moving up into a confused and crowded battlespace with probably limited resupply outside ammunition and maybe food/fuel. Parts will start being an issue in another 3 weeks. And if the Ukes start getting more advanced weapons like loitering munitions, more drones, better AD and a continual flow of ATGM then I'd be looking for the exit right now or trying to suck Uke forces into an area and nuking them after a build up to back on the offensive.

There don't look to be good options at this point without massively reinforcing and I don't see the logistics capability to supply that effectively.
SPSAg05
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MouthBQ98
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More precisely, a javelin can hit a t-72 at a much greater distance than a t-72 could effectively return accurate fire.

The 2A46 and similar derivatives can outrange any ATGW except a hellfire technically, but they'd have to be lucky as anything to see, then hit, their target at long ranges. Over about 1500m it isn't considered first shot accurate. They do make cannon fired guided ATGW rounds for it, but they are not really comparable to a Javelin, for example.
Rossticus
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Interesting list.
Rossticus
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Thanks!
Rossticus
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Russia reportedly redeploying 40k troops from Syria to Ukraine.
Not a Bot
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The availability of loitering munitions to take out the artillery and MLRS from a safe distance will be huge.
Rossticus
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For perspective, this guy is a member of Uke Territorial Defense force. Good follow.

Squadron7
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Not a rhetorical question: Has there ever been a conflict that made us so seriously revisit our assumptions about fighting an certain opponent?

The closest I can think of is the shift from a battleship Navy to a aircraft carriers around WW2.
Rossticus
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Charpie
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AG
Rossticus said:


That's fantastic for them
aezmvp
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Rossticus said:

Russia reportedly redeploying 40k troops from Syria to Ukraine.
Syrian troops? At the rate of 300 a day? (At least according to reports.) Yeah pass on that being a credible short term option other than throwing them into offensive operations. Unfamiliar terrain, cold, foreign language, I doubt the Ukrainians will take a whole lot of Syrians prisoner outside of a few for propaganda purposes. Armed civilian population catches Syrians inside Uke territory? Good luck son. Foreign mercenaries with a hostile religion in an active war zone? Nope, nope nope. I don't doubt they'll be vicious. I DO doubt they'll be effective. I also don't know how they'll do against armor and artillery in that environment. The units from the Far East command and South Ossetia? They'll do better but the Far East ones will take 2 weeks to get fully into theatre let alone to the front. The SO will be in better condition and fielded faster but I don't know that they'll be enough to make a break through.
ATX_AG_08
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Supposedly from the first day of the war.

Rossticus
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Agree
PJYoung
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Quote:

"Why should we help them?" Sven Holmlund, an oil supplier, told Norwegian broadcaster NRK. "They can row home. Or use a sail."
aggiehawg
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PJYoung said:


Hmm, Bill Browder. That's the Magnitsky Act guy that Fusion GPS went after. Small world.
PJYoung
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aezmvp
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PJYoung said:


That is a nifty ship. Oh for a letter of marque!
wtmartinaggie
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It happens every generation.... The result is insane bloody conflict with extreme losses.

Unarmored Mounted Calvary vs. unarmored infantry - ancient warfare
Pike Defenses vs. Unarmored Calvary - midieval warfare
Siege Warfare - Midieval warfare
Longbows vs. field formation armored infantry
Rifled Barrels vs. stand in formation and shoot- Civil War
Submarines vs. unescorted merchant vessels - WW1
Machine Gun vs. open field charges & horses- WW1
Air Superiority & Tanks vs. trench warfare - WW2

The list goes on... There are a lot of good books and an awesome Military History class at A&M where a big focus is on these transition moments. Once you lay in strategic approaches it gets really interesting. It seems like more than a few decades of peace time leads to advances that outstrip our ability to forecast their impact on the field of battle.

What's equally interesting to see is how the best military minds react to these challenges, and to me the further back you go the more interesting it is... for example... when Carthage brought elephants to Rome, the romans were hopeless at first. Their solution? douse pigs in flammable oil, light them on fire and run them straight at the elephants. the result spooked the elephants back into their own ranks. super interesting and unfortunately deadly stuff...
deddog
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Rossticus said:


T-72 were outranged in the Gulf War 20 years ago.
Soviet equipment is *****
P.H. Dexippus
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SPSAg05 said:



Regardless of whose side you take in the conflict, I'm conflicted as to whether de-normalizing trade relations is in the right long-term strategy the US should be pursuing.
The story isn't that [DeSantis] "couldn't win" the primary. The story is that an overwhelming majority of our population is heinously stupid. 50% of them vote for communists. 75% of the remaining 50% vote for Trump, who cant win. When the majority of the opposition party insists on voting for an opposition candidate who can't win, you get exactly the government you deserve. - Well Endowed Ag
deddog
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Rossticus said:

For perspective, this guy is a member of Uke Territorial Defense force. Good follow.


That's an odd patch?
I thought "Hind" was the NATO reporting name for the MI-24?
Why would the Russians have a patch for the MI-24 "hind" ?

Or its just a random patch /cool way of signifying what was shot down. For some reason, i assumed it was collected off the dead pilot
SPSAg05
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Another Chinese dagger in Russia's back.
JFABNRGR
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Mr. AGSPRT04 said:

SPSAg05 said:



Regardless of whose side you take in the conflict, I'm conflicted as to whether de-normalizing trade relations is in the right long-term strategy the US should be pursuing.
Sure and at least provide conditions for renewal. IE get the **** out of Ukraine. Back Putin into a corner so bad without an offramp his nuke response becomes way more expected than what a no fly zone and the loss of a couple aircraft would do.
ATX_AG_08
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GAC06
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deddog said:

Rossticus said:

For perspective, this guy is a member of Uke Territorial Defense force. Good follow.


That's an odd patch?
I thought "Hind" was the NATO reporting name for the MI-24?
Why would the Russians have a patch for the MI-24 "hind" ?

Or its just a random patch /cool way of signifying what was shot down. For some reason, i assumed it was collected off the dead pilot


Response to the tweet seems to indicate it was an Mi-17 anyway so the patch does seem odd. Russians typically don't name their aircraft like we do and occasionally informally use the NATO reporting names when they're not too unflattering
deddog
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SPSAg05 said:



Another Chinese dagger in Russia's back.
India too.
Indian justice also voted against Russia at the International Court of Justice.

Russians are reaching N Korea levels of isolation

ATX_AG_08
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JFABNRGR
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Orynx is listing it as an MI-8 and one of the earlier ones shot down. Looks MI8 is crossed with MI17 newer version I guess.
ATX_AG_08
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GAC06
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JFABNRGR said:

Orynx is listing it as an MI-8 and one of the earlier ones shot down. Looks MI8 is crossed with MI17 newer version I guess.


Mi-8 and Mi-17 are basically the same thing, same family of helicopters. Mi-8 is more correct though because it looks like Mi-17 is mostly used for export versions
ATX_AG_08
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AG
Reeks of desperation.


Rossticus
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ATX_AG_08 said:




Tell 'em to **** around and find out.
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