***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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VarkAg77
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In reply to aggiehawg • 6:51p, 3/9/22
AG
aggiehawg said:
VarkAg77 said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
well, that would render me scared ****less as a pilot in hostile territory
Most of the Russian bombing runs are being made at night. They are using dumb bombs so have to fly low and slow, is my understanding

Would need to shoot, then scoot.


One doesn't have to fly low, or slow to be accurate with dumb bombs. They would drop several to make sure they would hit the target, probably with more than one or two bombs hits.

Lower is better, but not necessary, speed is not an issue.
They do when the weather has thick and low hanging cloud cover. No PGMs on the aircraft.

And with Starstreak, speed is an issue. 3.2 seconds from launch to impact. over 4 miles away.

What am I missing?


With precision radar, Inertial Nav systems and GPS, they can drop very accurately at night and in weather. In fact, they'd rather drop in those conditions, as it negates the hand-held missile threats, including the one they just got from the Brits.

As far as speed, I was only referring to speed not being a factor in delivering the bombs accurately. In other words, they don't need to be slow to deliver them on target. That's all.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to Solo Tetherball Champ • 6:56p, 3/9/22
AG
Solo Tetherball Champ said:
aezmvp said:
deddog said:
After seeing all those burnt russian tanks, i wonder how the M1s will do against Javelins and NLAWs
Or are tanks the new battleship?
The Russians' active measure armor isn't nearly as advanced as British, German or American versions but who knows?

If history is any indication, in the battle between armor and arms, armor is always playing catch up.
Historical tidbit coming up. At the start of WWII, the Soviet Union had a motley collection of small tanklets and medium tanks that were little match for the Germans Pzkw III and IV. The T34 evened the playing field dramatically. But it was the lesser known KV1 heavy tank that really scared the Germans. Nearly indestructible due to its heavy armor, killing one often required massed sustained fire from multiple German tanks.
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n_touch
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In reply to aggiehawg • 6:59p, 3/9/22
aggiehawg said:
depogs said:
I'm not implying they are but how do they know they aren't saboteurs sent by Lukashenko?
Because Lukashenko doesn't want to accidentally fall out of a high rise building?


They are going to defend Kyiv so that would put Lukashenko in a bad spot. I agree seems a little suspicious especially after some of their forces were sent into combat
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VarkAg77
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In reply to GAC06 • 7:05p, 3/9/22
AG
GAC06 said:
VarkAg77 said:
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
well, that would render me scared ****less as a pilot in hostile territory
Most of the Russian bombing runs are being made at night. They are using dumb bombs so have to fly low and slow, is my understanding

Would need to shoot, then scoot.


One doesn't have to fly low, or slow to be accurate with dumb bombs. They would drop several to make sure they would hit the target, probably with more than one or two bombs hits.

Lower is better, but not necessary, speed is not an issue.


In the harrier we could hit accurately with unguided bombs from altitude (20-30k) but using our Litening targeting pod. Laser ranging and advanced GPS/INS gives very accurate height above target, but I don't see pods on any Russian aircraft and flying with commercial off the shelf GPS makes me doubt their ability to do what we do.

Next best would be dive deliveries, then low level with re tarded bombs. (had to get around filter to use the word in a valid contex) then level lays at low altitude with normal fins.

By your name, I get I'm probably preaching to the choir


I agree with everything you said there. The level of training they have in weapons employment is probably not anywhere near what our guys have, especially in the high tech area.
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UTExan
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In reply to aggiehawg • 7:07p, 3/9/22
aggiehawg said:
Quote:
well, that would render me scared ****less as a pilot in hostile territory
Most of the Russian bombing runs are being made at night. They are using dumb bombs so have to fly low and slow, is my understanding.

Would need to shoot, then scoot.


So they would be flying SU 25s? Haven't seen a report on the aircraft they are using for ground attack, but the Frogfoot makes the most sense.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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Ag In Ok
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In reply to Rapier108 • 7:09p, 3/9/22
AG
Rapier108 said:
If the Russians are really using their SU-57s, of which they have around 15 and most of those are the test aircraft, it makes me wonder why they'd risk it. Even having just one blasted from the sky, or crashing for a non-combat reason, would be a lot of egg on their face.

Without a doubt every Ukrainian with everything from an AK-47, to a MPAD, to manning an SAM site or AA battery is going to be on the lookout for those things with the hope of blasting it to pieces.

Ivan has a **** ton of aircraft in their inventory/reserve, many of which they could care less about losing.


If it is the 57 and at its apparent altitude, that's a target for the missile the brits are offering.
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JFABNRGR
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In reply to GAC06 • 7:14p, 3/9/22
AG
The lines appear to go from the chute under some piece of debris, (part of the seat?) and connect to what looks like nylon webbing from a harness, which is also at the end of where he likely took a dirt nap at a high rate of speed.
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Rossticus
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7:15p, 3/9/22
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Rossticus
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7:30p, 3/9/22
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Rossticus
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7:32p, 3/9/22
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Rapier108
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7:40p, 3/9/22
A USAF WC-135 Constant Phoenix flew today from Mildenhall to Poland, did numerous circles, then flew over the Baltic states before returning to Mildenhall.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
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flakrat
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In reply to Rossticus • 7:42p, 3/9/22
AG
Rossticus said:

How many missiles does a typical patriot battery have, in the launchers and reserves?
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Rossticus
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In reply to flakrat • 7:46p, 3/9/22
"A PATRIOT battery (i.e., the basic firing unit) consists of a phased array radar, an engagement control station, computers, power generating equipment, and up to eight launchers, each of which holds four ready-to-fire missiles."

https://missilethreat.csis.org/system/patriot/


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depogs
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In reply to n_touch • 7:47p, 3/9/22
AG
I mean the first couple of days the Russians had Ukrainian traitors leaving homing beacons in Kyiv, what better way to take advantage of Ukrainians need for troops then by sending your Belarus guys to infiltrate. Once again I'm not saying this is what's happening but I'd be nervous to trust anyone from Belarus.
These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their country; but he that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph.-Thomas Paine
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ATX_AG_08
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7:54p, 3/9/22
AG
Well put our best men on it. Lol…comical. What an embarrassment.

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Rossticus
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8:07p, 3/9/22
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to Rossticus • 8:08p, 3/9/22
AG
Rossticus said:
I'm curious about the people in those regions, too. Not that you'd get a good poll from there right now.
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Rossticus
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 8:13p, 3/9/22
Waffledynamics said:
Rossticus said:
I'm curious about the people in those regions, too. Not that you'd get a good poll from there right now.


Russia has moved a lot of Russian citizens into those areas as well over the past 8 years. You'd have to weed every one of them out in order to get a valid measure.
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Rossticus
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8:19p, 3/9/22
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CondensedFogAggie
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8:19p, 3/9/22

How training by Canada helped give Ukrainian army a fighting chance against Russia - Giving small-unit commanders the autonomy to make decisions on the fly was a cultural transformation for the Ukrainian soldiers, but seems to be paying off in spades


Quote:
When Canadian troops began training counterparts in Ukraine five years ago, one of their key goals was deceivingly simple.

In place of the top-down style of leadership inherited from Soviet days, the Canadians and other NATO instructors tried to instill the idea of giving small-unit commanders the autonomy to make decisions on the fly.

It was a cultural transformation, but seems to be paying off in spades as the out-gunned Ukrainian forces perform remarkably well against a Russian onslaught, says one of those teachers from Canada.

The attacks that have helped stall a huge Russian convoy north of Kyiv, for instance, have been made possible partly by small-unit leaders taking the initiative to craft their own ambushes, says Capt. Hugh Purdon.

"That all comes down to a platoon or section commander saying 'We're going to use the Javelin (anti-tank weapon) here and then we're going to pull back and use the Javelin here,'" he said. "You multiply that thousands of times and all of a sudden you have a viable defence."

"That is probably the biggest shock the (Russian) occupiers of Ukraine are seeing right now," said Purdon. "You don't have the level of success you are seeing … if you haven't developed that (leadership style)."

The Canadians taught infantry units of the Ukraine army and its hybrid National Guard various specialty courses from first aid to sniper skills as well as the broader leadership principles.

Then they got help setting up courses they themselves could deliver to a wider group of troops.

The Ukrainians knew that the fight had not gone as well as it could have in 2014 and were eager to change the running of small units, said Purdon.

The concept the Canadians imparted is called "mission command" by NATO forces, he said.

"If you are my commanding officer, you give me the mission, you give me the intent … and then I go off and I do it," said Purdon. "But if something is happening in front of me on the ground, I am empowered to make a decision."

Purdon has kept in contact with several of his colleagues there since the war began and is struck by their resolute calmness even as a vastly larger, more powerful enemy bears down on them.

The "matter-of-fact" attitude came out in his last conversation with a Ukrainian platoon commander he had befriended earlier.

"He said 'When we win' when we win 'you have to come visit.'"

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/how-training-by-canada-gave-ukrainian-army-fighting-chance-against-russia
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FJB
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In reply to solishu • 8:27p, 3/9/22
AG
solishu said:
FJB said:
This is Russian propaganda. Please share one credible source that documents the presence of US biolabs in Ukraine.
Fox News Count? Look when the "Biolabs" reports broke, everyone denied anything existed at all. Now its, "yeah there are labs there but we are trying to protect ourselves from bio threats." Point being you don't go from straight denial to changing the story after claiming propaganda.

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6300171637001

Nunn-Lugar Act provided funding in Ukraine and other former Soviet satellites to "dismantle" weapons of mass destruction. This also morphed into CBR - Cooperative Biological Research.

https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/

"The Biological Threat Reduction Program's priorities in Ukraine are to consolidate and secure pathogens and toxins of security concern and to continue to ensure Ukraine can detect and report outbreaks caused by dangerous pathogens before they pose security or stability threats."

https://www.americansecurityproject.org/ASP%20Reports/Ref%200068%20-%20The%20Nunn-Lugar%20Cooperative%20Threat%20Reduction%20Program.pdf

https://irp.fas.org/agency/dod/dtra/btrp-overview.pdf
Examples of some nasty bugs being "studied"
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htownag10
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8:30p, 3/9/22
AG
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wangus12
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 8:32p, 3/9/22
AG
My buddy with the 173rd Airborne said they did similar training with the Ukes as well as urban warfare
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Blackbeard94
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In reply to CondensedFogAggie • 8:37p, 3/9/22
AG
CondensedFoggyAggie said:

How training by Canada helped give Ukrainian army a fighting chance against Russia - Giving small-unit commanders the autonomy to make decisions on the fly was a cultural transformation for the Ukrainian soldiers, but seems to be paying off in spades


Quote:
When Canadian troops began training counterparts in Ukraine five years ago, one of their key goals was deceivingly simple.

In place of the top-down style of leadership inherited from Soviet days, the Canadians and other NATO instructors tried to instill the idea of giving small-unit commanders the autonomy to make decisions on the fly.

It was a cultural transformation, but seems to be paying off in spades as the out-gunned Ukrainian forces perform remarkably well against a Russian onslaught, says one of those teachers from Canada.

The attacks that have helped stall a huge Russian convoy north of Kyiv, for instance, have been made possible partly by small-unit leaders taking the initiative to craft their own ambushes, says Capt. Hugh Purdon.

"That all comes down to a platoon or section commander saying 'We're going to use the Javelin (anti-tank weapon) here and then we're going to pull back and use the Javelin here,'" he said. "You multiply that thousands of times and all of a sudden you have a viable defence."

"That is probably the biggest shock the (Russian) occupiers of Ukraine are seeing right now," said Purdon. "You don't have the level of success you are seeing … if you haven't developed that (leadership style)."

The Canadians taught infantry units of the Ukraine army and its hybrid National Guard various specialty courses from first aid to sniper skills as well as the broader leadership principles.

Then they got help setting up courses they themselves could deliver to a wider group of troops.

The Ukrainians knew that the fight had not gone as well as it could have in 2014 and were eager to change the running of small units, said Purdon.

The concept the Canadians imparted is called "mission command" by NATO forces, he said.

"If you are my commanding officer, you give me the mission, you give me the intent … and then I go off and I do it," said Purdon. "But if something is happening in front of me on the ground, I am empowered to make a decision."

Purdon has kept in contact with several of his colleagues there since the war began and is struck by their resolute calmness even as a vastly larger, more powerful enemy bears down on them.

The "matter-of-fact" attitude came out in his last conversation with a Ukrainian platoon commander he had befriended earlier.

"He said 'When we win' when we win 'you have to come visit.'"

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/how-training-by-canada-gave-ukrainian-army-fighting-chance-against-russia


Soviets - Befehlstaktik
Winners - Auftragstaktik
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Rossticus
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8:38p, 3/9/22
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wildmen09
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In reply to wangus12 • 8:40p, 3/9/22
AG
wangus12 said:
My buddy with the 173rd Airborne said they did similar training with the Ukes as well as urban warfare


Indeed they did. 7th Army Training Command was on a glide path to build an entire training complex. Not sure this was complete, last news I had on it was 2018.
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Who?mikejones!
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9:08p, 3/9/22
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wangus12
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 9:39p, 3/9/22
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Agthatbuilds said:


Does not bode well for Russian leadership pushing to the front
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Rossticus
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9:50p, 3/9/22
For anyone capable of making use:

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GAC06
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In reply to JFABNRGR • 9:51p, 3/9/22
AG
JFABNRGR said:
The lines appear to go from the chute under some piece of debris, (part of the seat?) and connect to what looks like nylon webbing from a harness, which is also at the end of where he likely took a dirt nap at a high rate of speed.


To me the lines run to the seat itself which is why I think it's a drogue chute. A real parachute is big even if not fully deployed. The stuff that looks like pilot gear could be the seat cushion. Not enough to go by in that picture in my opinion but my feeling is it's just a seat. Perhaps there's a flat pilot somewhere nearby but not much to go by there.
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GAC06
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In reply to ATX_AG_08 • 9:54p, 3/9/22
AG
ATX_AG_08 said:
Well put our best men on it. Lol…comical. What an embarrassment.



Perhaps they'll determine that one of the dead generals ordered the conscripts into Ukraine
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TheCougarHunter
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9:57p, 3/9/22
AG
So Putin is either lying, incompetent, or has no control over his subordinates. Which is it Vlad?

Maybe all of the above?
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UTExan
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10:02p, 3/9/22
The rotten tires on the trucks and conscripts on the front tell me that money that was supposed to hone the Russian military machine went into the pockets of some well-connected military officers and contractors. IOW, corruption plagues the Russian logistics chain.
“If you’re going to have crime it should at least be organized crime”
-Havelock Vetinari
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ATX_AG_08
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10:04p, 3/9/22
AG
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VaultingChemist
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10:18p, 3/9/22
AG
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