***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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jabberwalkie09
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In reply to JB!98 • 6:46p, 2/27/22
AG
JB!98 said:
ttu_85 said:
'03ag said:
Does NATO have aircraft that Ukranian pilots could operate?

If the plan is to hand over aircraft, sending them a bunch of Typhoons won't do them any good will it?
Yes Poland has Mig-29's
I think they Poles were going to retire these anyway, so they found a new owner for as long as they last. I assume either the Ukes have enough weapons for them or the Poles are providing them. They may not have to worry much about maintenance as with the high threat environment, they may be single use aircraft.

I wonder if there were any "side trips" on the way for delivery.
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mts6175
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In reply to Comeby! • 6:52p, 2/27/22
AG
Comeby! said:
BenTheGoodAg said:
hbtheduce said:
Yeah, Unless there are Ukrainian nationals in NATO countries that can fly it.

The NATO countries are walking a VERY fine line here. Seems like the powers at be want to throw us into full on confrontation with Russia.
Just can't get there with this opinion. NATO isn't walking the fine line here - Russia is. Appeasement have never worked, and never will. The world needs to stand up to tyrants like Putin. Glad to see Europe taking on the burden in cleaning up the trash in their own continent.


Why should we play by the rules when Putin doesn't. Eye for an eye. F him.
Exactly. IMO we should be engaged full on with them. We've been dealing with Russia for decades and now we're seeing how weak they really are. Add to it the whole world is pissed at them now, it's a perfect opportunity to put a playground bully down for good.
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bonfarr
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In reply to Dorm 15 • 6:52p, 2/27/22
AG
Dorm 15 said:
They would not fly from Nevada. They might be controlled by somebody in Nevada.


Even better, couldn't we give them the drones and launch them from Ukraine but be piloted by our crews in Nevada? How would the Russians ever know?
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TRM
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6:53p, 2/27/22
AG
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Ulysses90
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In reply to EKUAg • 6:53p, 2/27/22
AG
EKUAg said:
Ag In Ok said:
FireAg said:
JobSecurity said:
Not that the result was in doubt but this is the first confirmation I've seen

I hate to say it, but it's not going to take much to get this whole thing to spin out of control…

It's not hyperbole…Russians are doing a lot of saber rattling with nukes today…


Agreed. The heat is rising quickly. The 11 "divisions" about to come ashore, flood of weapons, higher end armaments, with millions of citizens hunkering down - this is about to get out of hand.


When did the amphibious landing go from 11 battalions to 11 divisions? Did I miss something?
They didn't. It's essentially one Division divided among 11 ships that are each alleged to be carrying a battalion.

My guess is that they are planning on walking off the ships at pier side and meeting vehicles. They won't be carrying many vehicles on those ships unless they are RO/ROs.

If there are any Ukrainian firing agencies that can range those piers and the ships trying to pull up pier-side it will be a target rich environment for a while and it will take the Russians a considerable amount of time to tactically deploy. Any Landing Support Battalion Marine will tell you how important it is not to get bunched up at the debarkation point.
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JobSecurity
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6:55p, 2/27/22
AG
the Saint Javelin guy has raised over 400k. wow

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Build It
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In reply to Ulysses90 • 6:55p, 2/27/22
AG
Russians control the port and the city now. It's going to take some air support.
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Waffledynamics
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6:55p, 2/27/22
AG
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TheGroupGuy
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6:57p, 2/27/22
At this point I doubt the EU is overly concerned about where the planes are coming from given the nuclear threats and Belarus vassal nuclear power state. May even be operating from EU countries absent UKRAINE options. Point is encircling counter value targets in Ukrainian cities tells you of an upcoming humanitarian disaster if this ___ show doesn't end soon. These are EU member countries not NATO acting on air promises
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Waffledynamics
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6:57p, 2/27/22
AG


Most current map (reportedly)
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74OA
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 7:00p, 2/27/22
AG
Waffledynamics said:


Most current map (reportedly)
If the Ukrainians can somehow defend Kyiv, this is a failed Russian effort at conquest.
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I Like Mike
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 7:00p, 2/27/22
AG
Man an armored thrust into the flank of that Kiev salient by an American ACR would be glorious.
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JobSecurity
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7:01p, 2/27/22
AG


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TRM
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7:02p, 2/27/22
AG
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.
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lb3
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In reply to FTAco07 • 7:04p, 2/27/22
AG
FTAco07 said:
Non aviator translation? Why would they take out the good stuff and make them go old school analog radio?
Probably so the Russians can't definitively prove that the calls are from our AWACS aircraft.
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Who?mikejones!
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In reply to TRM • 7:04p, 2/27/22
TRM said:
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.


Why would Google do that?
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aezmvp
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 7:05p, 2/27/22
Agthatbuilds said:
TRM said:
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.


Why would Google do that?
Because it could be used to target Ukrainian reinforcements coming into the battlefield.
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AgsMyDude
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 7:06p, 2/27/22
AG
Agthatbuilds said:
TRM said:
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.


Why would Google do that?


Because the Russians probably don't even have physical maps
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Waffledynamics
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In reply to TRM • 7:06p, 2/27/22
AG
TRM said:
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.
Sounds like Google made a really dumb decision, possibly.
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txags92
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In reply to ttu_85 • 7:07p, 2/27/22
AG
ttu_85 said:
jabberwalkie09 said:
Jsimonds58 said:


Holy ****



Guy is a senior advisor EU parliament.
Then he is a dumbass announcing this. Good lord !!!
What if it is cover? Claim "NATO is giving them new jets that will be in the air shortly", then fly in a few pairs of F35s to dismantle the Russian armored columns traveling toward Kiev. Gives plausible deniability...as has been said, Putin is going to take it the same either way, so why go to the trouble of sending old crap planes.
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JobSecurity
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In reply to aezmvp • 7:07p, 2/27/22
AG
I think people were reporting road closures for defensive measures which was giving away information that the russians could use
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EMY92
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In reply to lb3 • 7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
lb3 said:
FTAco07 said:
Non aviator translation? Why would they take out the good stuff and make them go old school analog radio?
Probably so the Russians can't definitively prove that the calls are from our AWACS aircraft.
In Vietnam, the Russians had trawlers stationed off of Guam and radio'd the B-52 launches to the NVA. They also used Russian radar controllers and Russian pilots to fight against the Americans.

Turn about is fair.
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txags92
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
Hopefully the "temporarily" part is just until they can find a way to block the Russians from using it to identify Ukrainian reinforcements.
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TRM
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In reply to Who?mikejones! • 7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
Agthatbuilds said:
TRM said:
OSINT has been using the traffic maps to find convoys.


Why would Google do that?
Ukraine troops and supplies move too. The army in Donbas (eastern Ukraine) could be in danger of being surrounded. Might be a good time for them to fall back.
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Bag
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In reply to txags92 • 7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
txags92 said:
ttu_85 said:
jabberwalkie09 said:
Jsimonds58 said:


Holy ****



Guy is a senior advisor EU parliament.
Then he is a dumbass announcing this. Good lord !!!
What if it is cover? Claim "NATO is giving them new jets that will be in the air shortly", then fly in a few pairs of F35s to dismantle the Russian armored columns traveling toward Kiev. Gives plausible deniability...as has been said, Putin is going to take it the same either way, so why go to the trouble of sending old crap planes.
tend to agree, if you are going to get in the fight, dont half ass it, throw everything you got at it
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Waffledynamics
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7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
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JB!98
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7:09p, 2/27/22
AG
Unless they have some way of refueling the Mig-29's they don't have the combat radius to get to Kyiv from Lviv and have any on station time. They really can't make if from Poland to Kyiv and back. The Mig-29 has short legs like the F-18, I just don't know how they will get them close enough to the action to be effective.

Unless they are meant to be CAP over the West as a last resort.
Today, unfortunately, many Americans have good reason to fear that they will be victimized if they are unable to protect themselves. And today, no less than in 1791, the Second Amendment guarantees their right to do so. - Justice Samuel Alito 2022
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No Spin Ag
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 7:11p, 2/27/22
Waffledynamics said:


Now that was awesome!
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
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TheGroupGuy
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7:14p, 2/27/22
Maybe the EU air cover is to guard EU arms shipments?
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Jayhawk
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7:17p, 2/27/22
Setting aside the diplomatic and strategic implications of the NATO-provided Mig-29's, the purely military question is: Where will the Ukrainians be able to safely operate these aircraft from? Their air bases have by this point all been destroyed or would be destroyed in short order by the superior RU AF. So, that leaves some rather austere options, e.g. picking stretches of roads and maintaining / rearming / refueling the airplanes under cover of forests and such like. If I recall correctly, the Mig-29 was designed with some rugged gear for this sort of scenario, but this will involve some unorthodox "expeditionary" style planning if these things are going to be made to count on the battlefield.
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GE
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In reply to JB!98 • 7:17p, 2/27/22
AG
JB!98 said:
Unless they have some way of refueling the Mig-29's they don't have the combat radius to get to Kyiv from Lviv and have any on station time. They really can't make if from Poland to Kyiv and back. The Mig-29 has short legs like the F-18, I just don't know how they will get them close enough to the action to be effective.

Unless they are meant to be CAP over the West as a last resort.
Do we have reason to believe they don't have a way to refuel them?
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TRM
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7:18p, 2/27/22
AG
There were rumor from Mokolonet (or something like that) that Belarus would be involved in the air assault tonight.

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akaggie
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7:18p, 2/27/22
AG
The spirit of the Ukrainian people is so amazing!!!!
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Boo Weekley
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In reply to Waffledynamics • 7:21p, 2/27/22
Waffledynamics said:


Man that is some Texas or Louisiana ass sh**.
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BQ_90
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In reply to Boo Weekley • 7:24p, 2/27/22
AG
Boo Weekley said:
Waffledynamics said:


Man that is some Texas or Louisiana ass sh**.
Tractor had a Z on it, most likely Russian driving it
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