FireAg said:

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Keegan99 said:

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#Russian military leaders should think very carefully before following the orders they recently received #Putin is 2 years shy of the life expectancy of a Russian male
and you will spend the rest of your lives evading an international tribunal for committing his crimes

— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 27, 2022

Well that's ominous as hell.

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Wonder what the orders were?

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My guess is that they are going to start to target civilians that get in their way.

Another way people will take it is that he means they are going to use nukes, which is a not a very smart interpretation imo.

GarryowenAg said:

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Keegan99 said:

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That tweet is from 6+ hours ago.

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Good catch. Guess we'll wait for the confirmation.

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The only thing close to a confirmation was a tweet that translating some Ukrainian minister saying they had 200 POWs west of Kyiv.

My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

Indiscriminate shelling the city?

Keegan99 said:

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My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

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TOS-1 was confirmed near Mariupol I believe. Not near Kiev.

Defensive strategy against the southern push seems to be let them run out of fuel in the middle of winter.

Not bad, not bad.

Betting take Kiev at nearly all costs - maybe save some heritage sights and that's it. Somewhere in his mind he believes he has a spiritual calling, i don't see him targeting the Orthodox church.

Any of those options will only further stele Ukrainians resolve and increase international pressure on Moscow.

What's up with these missiles?

Ag In Ok said:

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Betting take Kiev at nearly all costs - maybe save some heritage sights and that's it. Somewhere in his mind he believes he has a spiritual calling, i don't see him targeting the Orthodox church.

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Now the church in the background of the news people makes sense. I would bet that Zelensky is there close.

They are also talking about moving nukes into Belarus. I worry about what happens if this goes really sideways for the Russians, they've out run their supply chain and a hostile populace is burning out their tanks and the Russians are retreating on foot while manpads have eliminated their air cover. I wonder if Putin doesn't authorize nukes.

Whirligigs said:

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What's up with these missiles?

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Whirligigs said:

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What's up with these missiles?

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CNN had a good clip on it just last hour. Essentially they're not conventional weapons in that they are designed to suck the oxygen out of areas and literally suffocate people.

RedNeckGamer88 said:

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JB!98 said:

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RedNeckGamer88 said:

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I think allot of people are looking at this invasion completely wrong. Russia is trying to surround all the major cities and minimize civilian casualties. The 2003 Iraq war invasion took about a month. This was with the US blowing up power stations, destroying utilities and infrastructure. Also, the Ukraine much better military then Iraq. People in Iraq went without running water and power for more than a year in some cases. As far as I can tell, If Russia wanted to, they could level Kiev, and they could be cutting power and completely wrecking the place like we did in Iraq.

I am assuming that Russia will encircle all the civilian locations and starve them out and focus on directly taking over government infrastructure. They want to "capture" Ukraine and keep the place intact. Destroying the country does them no good.

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I don't remember our forces running out of fuel, abandoning their equipment, and looting places for food. I also do not remember us not having air superiority in a short period of time or trying to make air assaults where our C-17's were shot out of the sky. I think you are right on the outright points, but others of us are pointing out the weaknesses that they have shown over the last three days that our military would not have.

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True, but stupid **** did happen. I didn't serve in the initial invasion. But I seem to remember a national guard unit getting lost, running out of ammo and surrendering. The whole Jessica Lynch incident was always taught as an example of what not to do. I have no ideal how the Russia military operates, but I feel like things are allot more "loose". It is surprising that they don't have full air superiority. Is that because of all the manpads? idk.

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Any chance we are quietly letting the Ukrainians hide planes just over the board in nato nations? I know we have had tankers up along the borders for several days now. Are they tanking our planes or the Ukrainians?

erudite said:

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Keegan99 said:

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My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

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TOS-1 was confirmed near Mariupol I believe. Not near Kiev.

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TOS-1's have been spotted in a couple of areas. Today one was spotted in Takmok. They have been spotted near Belgorod as well. I'd put money on the videos that have come from around Kharkiv showing the artillery attack was from TOS-1's from near Belgorod.

Whirligigs said:

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What's up with these missiles?

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Similar to our MOAB but supposedly burns hotter with a wall of napalm.

bonfarr said:

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FireAg said:

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Keegan99 said:

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#Russian military leaders should think very carefully before following the orders they recently received #Putin is 2 years shy of the life expectancy of a Russian male
and you will spend the rest of your lives evading an international tribunal for committing his crimes

— Marco Rubio (@marcorubio) February 27, 2022

Well that's ominous as hell.

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Wonder what the orders were?

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Thermobaric vacuum bombs are about to be used I think.

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The first indictment at Nurenburg was: (1) crimes against peace (i.e., the planning, initiating, and waging of wars of aggression in violation of international treaties and agreements)

I think if you start a war and don't win, this one comes into play.

Talon2DSO said:

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RedNeckGamer88 said:

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I think allot of people are looking at this invasion completely wrong. Russia is trying to surround all the major cities and minimize civilian casualties. The 2003 Iraq war invasion took about a month. This was with the US blowing up power stations, destroying utilities and infrastructure. Also, the Ukraine much better military then Iraq. People in Iraq went without running water and power for more than a year in some cases. As far as I can tell, If Russia wanted to, they could level Kiev, and they could be cutting power and completely wrecking the place like we did in Iraq.

I am assuming that Russia will encircle all the civilian locations and starve them out and focus on directly taking over government infrastructure. They want to "capture" Ukraine and keep the place intact. Destroying the country does them no good.

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This is the same Russian government that gassed 300 people in a theater. They don't care about casualties

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It was closer to 900 people in the theater. About 160 or so died, not counting the terrorists holding them hostage. And they used fentanyl as an incapacitating agent, not gas. By Russian standards, it was a successful hostage rescue.

wildmen09 said:

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Whirligigs said:

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What's up with these missiles?

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CNN had a good clip on it just last hour. Essentially they're not conventional weapons in that they are designed to suck the oxygen out of areas and literally suffocate people.

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While producing a 400+ psi pressure wave IIRC. That would be the "baric" part of the weapon designation

jabberwalkie09 said:

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erudite said:

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Keegan99 said:

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My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

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TOS-1 was confirmed near Mariupol I believe. Not near Kiev.

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TOS-1's have been spotted in a couple of areas. Today one was spotted in Takmok. They have been spotted near Belgorod as well. I'd put money on the videos that have come from around Kharkiv showing the artillery attack was from TOS-1's from near Belgorod.

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Here's the thing, the Russians only have around 150 of those I think (45 confirmed), so if those are going around, they're probably about to get serrious.

RedNeckGamer88 said:

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I think allot of people are looking at this invasion completely wrong. Russia is trying to surround all the major cities and minimize civilian casualties. The 2003 Iraq war invasion took about a month. This was with the US blowing up power stations, destroying utilities and infrastructure. Also, the Ukraine much better military then Iraq. People in Iraq went without running water and power for more than a year in some cases. As far as I can tell, If Russia wanted to, they could level Kiev, and they could be cutting power and completely wrecking the place like we did in Iraq.

I am assuming that Russia will encircle all the civilian locations and starve them out and focus on directly taking over government infrastructure. They want to "capture" Ukraine and keep the place intact. Destroying the country does them no good.

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Russia isn't going to have the financial capabilities to survive for much longer soon. They can't afford a drawn out battle.

I wonder if the orders relate to the post earlier about orders to take Kyiv by Monday at any cost?

maverick2076 said:

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Talon2DSO said:

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RedNeckGamer88 said:

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I think allot of people are looking at this invasion completely wrong. Russia is trying to surround all the major cities and minimize civilian casualties. The 2003 Iraq war invasion took about a month. This was with the US blowing up power stations, destroying utilities and infrastructure. Also, the Ukraine much better military then Iraq. People in Iraq went without running water and power for more than a year in some cases. As far as I can tell, If Russia wanted to, they could level Kiev, and they could be cutting power and completely wrecking the place like we did in Iraq.

I am assuming that Russia will encircle all the civilian locations and starve them out and focus on directly taking over government infrastructure. They want to "capture" Ukraine and keep the place intact. Destroying the country does them no good.

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This is the same Russian government that gassed 300 people in a theater. They don't care about casualties

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It was closer to 900 people in the theater. About 160 or so died, not counting the terrorists holding them hostage. And they used fentanyl as an incapacitating agent, not gas. By Russian standards, it was a successful hostage rescue.

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"Some of your may die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make." - Soviets/CCP/Russian federation.

aezmvp said:

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They are also talking about moving nukes into Belarus. I worry about what happens if this goes really sideways for the Russians, they've out run their supply chain and a hostile populace is burning out their tanks and the Russians are retreating on foot while manpads have eliminated their air cover. I wonder if Putin doesn't authorize nukes.

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You have to take it out. You can't let a bully be a bully. It might hurt in the short run, but Russia invading Ukraine (and especially if they launch a nuke) can not stand. We should carve up that country into tiny pieces and auction off the land to the highest bidder if that happens.

bonfarr said:

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Whirligigs said:

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What's up with these missiles?

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Similar to our MOAB but supposedly burns hotter with a wall of napalm.

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It was judged to be the next evolution of napalm but it is something more than that. These things were designed for enclosed spaces to kill everyone in them. Bunkers, caves, etc.

The essentially cause pressure spikes of extreme magnitude that can collapse roofs and walls and then set them on fire. As with some book design though, the effects on people are heinous even if not meant for them. They inflict grotesque damage on the human body and there is no real way to defend against them. They are definitely frowned upon for use in fighting but I am not sure if they are outlawed per se.

JobSecurity said:

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I wonder if the orders relate to the post earlier about orders to take Kyiv by Monday at any cost?

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Then we're more than likely about to see Kyiv turn into a modern day Dresden.

jabberwalkie09 said:

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JobSecurity said:

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I wonder if the orders relate to the post earlier about orders to take Kyiv by Monday at any cost?

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Then we're more than likely about to see Kyiv turn into a modern day Dresden.

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No way. I don't see it happening.

New S2 comprehensive update for those who like a brief type of format.

These guys are good and highly recommend.

erudite said:

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jabberwalkie09 said:

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erudite said:

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Keegan99 said:

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My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

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TOS-1 was confirmed near Mariupol I believe. Not near Kiev.

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TOS-1's have been spotted in a couple of areas. Today one was spotted in Takmok. They have been spotted near Belgorod as well. I'd put money on the videos that have come from around Kharkiv showing the artillery attack was from TOS-1's from near Belgorod.

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Here's the thing, the Russians only have around 150 of those I think (45 confirmed), so if those are going around, they're probably about to get serrious.

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I've always taken modern day Russia's numbers with a a generous helping of salt. I'm sure they have a few, but how many of those they can afford to equip is another question imo.

Very limited news tonight. Any speculations why; internet/power outages?

GarryowenAg said:

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Very limited news tonight. Any speculations why; internet/power outages?

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It's only 6 am there and Russians don't fight at night apparently.

jabberwalkie09 said:

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erudite said:

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Keegan99 said:

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My SWAG would be thermobaric. Those have been seen in theater, reportedly.

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TOS-1 was confirmed near Mariupol I believe. Not near Kiev.

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TOS-1's have been spotted in a couple of areas. Today one was spotted in Takmok. They have been spotted near Belgorod as well. I'd put money on the videos that have come from around Kharkiv showing the artillery attack was from TOS-1's from near Belgorod.

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The TOS-1 Buratinos only have a range of about 6km. They are basically a weapons for reducing a nearby fortified position. Belgorod is about 80km from Kharkiv and they have had time to cover that distance since they were spotted this morning moving across the border from Belgorod.