***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]

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GAC06
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 10:29a, 4/18/22
AG
ABATTBQ11 said:
GAC06 said:
Ships don't have a good track record defending against missiles. We supposedly had a destroyer shoot down an inbound missile from Yemen recently but most other instances where the missile functioned properly, the ship got hit. Falklands, USS Stark, Israeli frigate hit by hezbollah, etc


To successfully engage incoming missiles, the CIWS actually has to be present and active. HMS Sheffield didn't have a CIWS to engage the exocets fired at it. Stark seemingly didn't turn hers on fast enough and engage early. The Hanit (Israeli frigate) also did not have her CIWS on because she did not suspect any kind of missile attack was possible.


Yeah there are different reasons for each ship that got hit and I'm sure there is some explaining going on about the Moskva. My point is that several things need to go right for a targeted ship and the track record is that when the missile works, the ship typically gets hit.
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G Martin 87
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In reply to lb3 • 10:44a, 4/18/22
AG
lb3 said:
MeatDr said:
I guess my afternoon will be wasted silo hunting.
How long before Google removes the filtering for OUR military installations out of "fairness"?
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aggiehawg
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10:49a, 4/18/22
AG
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AgLA06
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In reply to GAC06 • 10:57a, 4/18/22
AG
Except when they don't. And you don't hear about it because nothing happened.
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aggiehawg
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10:58a, 4/18/22
AG


Quote:
Yesterday Russia's defense ministry published images of what it says is the crew of the Moskva taking part in a parade in Sevastopol. Around 100 sailors are seen in the images. The ship's typical crew was 500+. Where are the other 400?
Link
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mickeyrig06sq3
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 11:07a, 4/18/22
AG
G Martin 87 said:
lb3 said:
MeatDr said:
I guess my afternoon will be wasted silo hunting.
How long before Google removes the filtering for OUR military installations out of "fairness"?
The unfilter Russia, Russia blocks them. They unfilter the US installations enough to compromise national security, subpoenas start getting issued.
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JFABNRGR
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:09a, 4/18/22
AG
aggiehawg said:
I am not sure about this guy. #1 he wasn't there. Doesn't mention this was hours later and the big explosions occurred in the dark. The fires have likely died down significantly at this photo, as a ship sinks it begins extinguishing its own fire. Nor does he say anything about the rate of water coming in versus pumps out.

I don't think we have seen any reports of the Captain still being alive either or have we? loss of leadership would have also been problematic.

He does mention potential of secondary explosions because of ordinance on board but I don't think he stresses enough the risk of staying on board. He also doesn't do a good job explaining the limitations of self rescue without main power.
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GAC06
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In reply to AgLA06 • 11:09a, 4/18/22
AG
AgLA06 said:
Except when they don't. And you don't hear about it because nothing happened.


You think there are lots of unreported instances of missiles getting fired at ships and intercepted?
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aggiehawg
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11:10a, 4/18/22
AG
Quote:
This seems a bit too good to be true, but it also comes with some evidentiary support from Vladimir Putin's government. Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty (RFERL) reported over the weekend that Putin's call for more troops has not had the desired effect so far of inspiring Russians to enlistment offices. It's certainly not convincing veterans to return for more of the "special military operation" non-war that Putin's not winning, even if he isn't quite losing it yet:
Quote:
Quote:
Yelena's son, Pavel, was serving in the Far Eastern Amur region when Russia invaded Ukraine on February 24. Almost immediately, his unit was sent to the front, and he served almost 40 days in combat. Then his unit was sent back to Russia to regroup, Yelena told RFE/RL's North.Realities. When his unit was preparing to return to Ukraine, Pavel refused.
"If he doesn't want to go back, am I supposed to push him, to tell him, 'Grab your weapon and go,'" Yelena said. "Those who haven't been there have no right judge those who have."
Yelena's son is one of a significant but unknown number of Russian contract soldiers who have refused to either fight in Ukraine in the first place or who have fought and do not want to return.
Lawyer Pavel Chikov, founder of the Agora legal-aid NGO, has written on Telegram that more than 1,000 military personnel and National Guard troops from at least seven regions have refused to go to Ukraine.
Are we sure this is a real problem, rather than a propaganda effort to undermine Russian morale? RFERL isn't inclined toward the latter as a rule, presumably especially not in a Biden administration that still tailors its response to Russia in incremental steps. Furthermore, this is less acute a problem on the front for Russia than the refusal of its soldiers already there to fight, an issue since the first days of its invasion of Ukraine by conscripts and badly provisioned troops. If the West wanted to focus on a problem for propaganda purposes, desertions on the line and surrenders to Ukrainian forces would get the most attention.
Quote:
This story comes from multiple sources to RFERL, and another source says the real impact is much greater than the official numbers from Agora suggests:
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Ruslan Leviyev, the founder of the Conflict Intelligence Team, a Russian NGO that monitors open-source information about the Russian military, told Current Time that the actual number of these cases might be considerably larger and that the refusals could be severely hampering Russia's efforts to regroup and renew its military operations in eastern Ukraine.

"The phenomenon of refusal is becoming systemic," Leviyev said. "Such soldiers are found in practically every unit that has returned from Ukraine. According to our estimates, from 20 to 40 percent of the contract servicemen that returned from Ukraine and that are being readied to be sent back are refusing to return to combat."
Quote:
It appears that the problem has grown large enough for Moscow to punish it through official channels in other ways. An official stamp has reportedly been created for military personnel who refuse to fight, accusing them of "treason, lies, and deception," a standing that will impact their de facto social-credit score in Russia:


Link
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wangus12
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:10a, 4/18/22
AG
aggiehawg said:


Quote:
Yesterday Russia's defense ministry published images of what it says is the crew of the Moskva taking part in a parade in Sevastopol. Around 100 sailors are seen in the images. The ship's typical crew was 500+. Where are the other 400?
Link
Welp he'll probably disappear like his son did
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mickeyrig06sq3
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:11a, 4/18/22
AG
aggiehawg said:


Quote:
Yesterday Russia's defense ministry published images of what it says is the crew of the Moskva taking part in a parade in Sevastopol. Around 100 sailors are seen in the images. The ship's typical crew was 500+. Where are the other 400?
Link
Not sure if that Twitter passes the sniff test. The back-and-forth focus on body count is annoying. They sunk the flagship of the Black Sea Fleet, and the same ship that was part of the eff-off incident. It doesn't matter if everyone survived, the ship is still sitting there until the Ukrainian Agricultural Naval Forces can retrieve it.
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Gilligan
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In reply to aggiehawg • 11:12a, 4/18/22
AG
aggiehawg said:


Quote:
Yesterday Russia's defense ministry published images of what it says is the crew of the Moskva taking part in a parade in Sevastopol. Around 100 sailors are seen in the images. The ship's typical crew was 500+. Where are the other 400?
Link
Old men send young men into battle to die. I feel for the father.
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AgLA06
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:15a, 4/18/22
AG
GAC06 said:
AgLA06 said:
Except when they don't. And you don't hear about it because nothing happened.


You think there are lots of unreported instances of missiles getting fired at ships and intercepted?


Let me check the top secret public access system. I'm sure it's posted all over there.
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ABATTBQ11
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In reply to GAC06 • 11:20a, 4/18/22
AG
GAC06 said:
AgLA06 said:
Except when they don't. And you don't hear about it because nothing happened.


You think there are lots of unreported instances of missiles getting fired at ships and intercepted?


How often are missiles fired at ships?

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GAC06
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In reply to ABATTBQ11 • 11:25a, 4/18/22
AG
Very rarely
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Rossticus
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11:29a, 4/18/22
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Rossticus
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11:29a, 4/18/22
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Rossticus
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11:31a, 4/18/22
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Rossticus
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11:32a, 4/18/22
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Rossticus
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11:35a, 4/18/22
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Rossticus
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11:47a, 4/18/22
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MeatDr
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11:49a, 4/18/22
AG

ETA link to location. Lots of interesting stuff there.
google.com
https://t.co/m17klhsZvh
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CondensedFogAggie
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11:59a, 4/18/22

Not that we need any more confirmation of how depraved Putin is.
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CondensedFogAggie
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12:08p, 4/18/22

Whoever ends up getting one of these, good hunting.
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Ulysses90
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In reply to Rossticus • 12:11p, 4/18/22
AG
Rossticus said:


Here's some field artillery arcana that I never thought I would have occasion to post in a politics forum.

I attended the Artillery Officers' Advaneced Course with a Ukrainian officer who had been trained at the Soviet artillery school. I learned from him that Soviet gunnery convenations use a "mil circle" based on 6200 mils. Angles in artillery gunnery are measured in a unit called the mil because degree of angle is not precise enough. There are ~17.7 mils in one degree. The scientifically precise definition of a mil cirle is 2Pi * 1000 mils which is 6283 mils but that's not a round number that divides easily by 2. The US and NATO gunnery procedures and all of our gunnery instruments are based on a 6400 mil circle because a little bit more precision doesn't hurt and you can divide 6400 by 2 eight times before you split the mil.

Training the Ukes to use US howtitzers and gunnery tools will probably be centered on thinking in 6400 mil terms rather than 6200. My classmate Igor picked it up fairly quickly. I have to imagine that he's been called out of retirement to the fight. He thought it was amusing that US Army FA branch referred to themselves as Redlegs. He said, "In the Soviet Army, comrades are Red all over, not just legs!"
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mickeyrig06sq3
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In reply to MeatDr • 12:17p, 4/18/22
AG
MeatDr said:

ETA link to location. Lots of interesting stuff there.
google.com
https://t.co/m17klhsZvh
This is why you don't give Ivan vodka until after he's finished the model.
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Rossticus
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12:21p, 4/18/22
Go ahead Russia. Screw around and find out why we don't have free healthcare.

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FamousAgg
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In reply to G Martin 87 • 12:21p, 4/18/22
G Martin 87 said:
lb3 said:
MeatDr said:
I guess my afternoon will be wasted silo hunting.
How long before Google removes the filtering for OUR military installations out of "fairness"?


If our government is relying on google maps to locate Russian Silos, we are beyond saving
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GAC06
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In reply to FamousAgg • 12:25p, 4/18/22
AG
Our silos are found easily on Google maps and on Wikipedia. Parked near one elk hunting last year
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MeatDr
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12:28p, 4/18/22
AG

Caesar Kunikov is probably the landing ship that got out of the Berdiansk port on fire when Saratov was sunk.
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Rossticus
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12:37p, 4/18/22
Gotta love that Ukrainian style (someone finally released "The Kraken").

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G Martin 87
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12:40p, 4/18/22
AG


Check out the mothballed jets on the right. So that's what happened to the Su-47. LOL
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74OA
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In reply to Rossticus • 12:44p, 4/18/22
AG
Rossticus said:
Go ahead Russia. Screw around and find out why we don't have free healthcare.

That number doesn't accurately frame Russian military spending. If you're interested: BUDGET
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MeatDr
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In reply to MeatDr • 12:50p, 4/18/22
AG
MeatDr said:
Warning: there isn't any gore, but video does show drone footage of probably dead or severely wounded Russian soldiers as well as a grenade being thrown on them.

Follow up to this. Towards the end when the Ukraine soldier throws the grenade over the wall, there is actually a Russian soldier under the truck that it initially lands by. He rolls it back towards his friends where it then explodes. Gotta love it. Zoomed in video pointing it out below. Same warning as above applies if you don't want to see a grenade going off on people.
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Rossticus
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In reply to 74OA • 12:55p, 4/18/22
I'd posit that, given what we've seen from Russian logistics, maintenance, preparedness, training, etc., the 2019 article is quite over optimistic. While I'm sure expenditures are in excess of the reported $60B, much of it is also diverted, siphoned, misappropriated, and otherwise squandered. We can see the proof before our eyes.
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