Guess the new S-500 can't stop a 1990s weapon.
***Russian - Ukraine War Tactical and Strategic Updates*** [Warning on OP]
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Last: 5 min ago by Sq 17
lb3 said:
Here is the ISS world map in NASA's Mission Control. The yellow circles over Russia are the segment of the sky seen by their ground stations.
This may be a dumb question, but does NASA have the ability to contact/interact with/track the ISS when it is over those areas independent of Russia?
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
The big green yellow and baby blue loops are the coverage zones for NASA's Tracking Data & Relay Satellites (TDRS).
Except for the South Atlantic Anomaly (SAA)
Russia is claiming they took out an American rq4 global hawk.
Russian milbloggers are claiming a Russian aircraft took out a US Global Hawk over the Black Sea today.
US officials have denied an incident took place.
US officials have denied an incident took place.
Have to think that would be the biggest Russian mistake since the 3 day special operation started right?Agthatbuilds said:
Russia is claiming they took out an American rq4 global hawk.
smstork1007 said:Have to think that would be the biggest Russian mistake since the 3 day special operation started right?Agthatbuilds said:
Russia is claiming they took out an American rq4 global hawk.
Why? Do you expect us to retaliate?
Against them directly, no, but I could for sure see some flood gates open that Russia wouldn't like or be able to deal with. Now having said that, I doubt it happened, for those very reasons.
Wrong thread
Two Russian channel admins for channels we used very frequently were killed in combat and we wont be getting any more updates from them. pic.twitter.com/hTZEs7gi5q
— Andrew Perpetua (@AndrewPerpetua) June 24, 2024
More detail on Ukraine's recent successful ATACMS strike on the Russian space tracking and communications site in Crimea.
NIP-16
NIP-16
Thanks for sharing. I've been scratching my head wondering why tthis site was so "ATACMS important" to Ukraine. GLONASS make sense.74OA said:
More detail on Ukraine's recent successful ATACMS strike on the Russian space tracking and communications site in Crimea.
Quote:
Instead, he suggested that "a plausible explanation appears to be that the site is used for maintaining and controlling Russian satellites, including GLONASS [GLObalnaya NAvigatsionnaya Sputnikovaya Sistema in Russian] satellites," the Russian version of the U.S. Global Positioning System (GPS).
"This makes sense to me and also explains why it would be a priority target for Ukraine."
Whatever it is being used for, Ukraine clearly thought it was important enough to Russia's fighting capabilities, or to them just as a strategic asset, to spend precious ATACMS missiles trying to put it out of action.
Or the USA wanted it out of action and The Ukes made a deal.
Either way win / win.
Either way win / win.
4min video by Zeihan on the satellite ground station. Has some insight and theories.
At a minium, 100% the US was consulted and signed off.AgLA06 said:
Or the USA wanted it out of action and The Ukes made a deal.
Either way win / win.
Sounds like this could (especially if they find away to hit one of the the now remaining other 3 space communication sites) potentially take away the ability to effectively use of Russian glide bombs that have been a huge issue lately.
Here's the interesting history of NIP-16 and more background on why it is a legitimate military target.
COMMS
COMMS
I wish this statement would just die.74OA said:
Here's the interesting history of NIP-16 and more background on why it is a legitimate military target.
COMMS
Russia thinks any inch of Ukraine is a legitimate target. Unless the Ukes are hitting an orphanage, this is just dumb. Any part of their economy, logistics, warehousing, etc. is a target during war time.
Fortunately, few agree with you. The concept of legitimacy is central to the Law of War and one of the primary differences between us and the barbarian Russians.AgLA06 said:I wish this statement would just die.74OA said:
Here's the interesting history of NIP-16 and more background on why it is a legitimate military target.
COMMS
Russia thinks any inch of Ukraine is a legitimate target. Unless the Ukes are they're hitting an orphanage, this is just dumb.
Trump's plan to end the war finally revealed?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/
Plan seems heavily based on this white paper that Kellogg and Fleitz wrote earlier this year:
https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/america-first-russia-ukraine
TLDR:
1. Ceasefire freezing current battle lines. Ukraine does not have to formally cede areas claimed by Russia, but will not attempt to retake them militarily.
2. Ukraine gets no further military aid if they refuse to negotiate. Ukraine gets even more military aid than currently if Russia refuses to negotiate.
3. US provides Russia limited sanctions relief and agrees not to allow Ukraine to join NATO for an extended period (at least for as long as Putin runs the country), in exchange for Russia promising to encroach no further. What's left of Ukraine is provided with ongoing military aid and US/EU security guarantees to fend off future Russian aggression.
I dunno, doesn't really seem like something that Ukrainians would find acceptable?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/
Quote:
Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.
The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine.
Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.
They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added.
Kellogg said it would be crucial to get Russia and Ukraine to the negotiating table quickly if Trump wins the election.
"We tell the Ukrainians, 'You've got to come to the table, and if you don't come to the table, support from the United States will dry up,'" he said. "And you tell Putin, 'He's got to come to the table and if you don't come to the table, then we'll give Ukrainians everything they need to kill you in the field.'
According to their research paper, Moscow would also be coaxed to the table with the promise of NATO membership for Ukraine being put off for an extended period.
Russia invaded neighboring Ukraine in February 2022. Until some gains by Russia in recent months, the front lines barely moved since the end of that year, despite tens of thousands of dead on both sides in relentless trench warfare, the bloodiest fighting in Europe since World War Two.
Fleitz said Ukraine need not formally cede territory to Russia under their plan.
A lasting peace in Ukraine would require additional security guarantees for Ukraine, Kellogg and Fleitz said. Fleitz added that "arming Ukraine to the teeth" was likely to be a key element of that.
Plan seems heavily based on this white paper that Kellogg and Fleitz wrote earlier this year:
https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/america-first-russia-ukraine
TLDR:
1. Ceasefire freezing current battle lines. Ukraine does not have to formally cede areas claimed by Russia, but will not attempt to retake them militarily.
2. Ukraine gets no further military aid if they refuse to negotiate. Ukraine gets even more military aid than currently if Russia refuses to negotiate.
3. US provides Russia limited sanctions relief and agrees not to allow Ukraine to join NATO for an extended period (at least for as long as Putin runs the country), in exchange for Russia promising to encroach no further. What's left of Ukraine is provided with ongoing military aid and US/EU security guarantees to fend off future Russian aggression.
I dunno, doesn't really seem like something that Ukrainians would find acceptable?
They won't want to accept it, but what are the realistic prospects for anything else? They're unlikely to be able to retake much territory in the next few years if this drags on as Russia can produce and deploy insane amounts of mines and fortify it to the nth degree. Both sides lose the longer this drags on.
I would suggest an option for territory swaps to create borders both sides would find more appealing than what happens to be the front line now.
Realistically, Russia isn't going to take a deal as long as they can keep trading Russian bodies for any kind of gains.
I would suggest an option for territory swaps to create borders both sides would find more appealing than what happens to be the front line now.
Realistically, Russia isn't going to take a deal as long as they can keep trading Russian bodies for any kind of gains.
Russia will readily promise that.Correction said:
Trump's plan to end the war finally revealed?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/Quote:
Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.
The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine.
Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.
They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added.
Kellogg said it would be crucial to get Russia and Ukraine to the negotiating table quickly if Trump wins the election.
"We tell the Ukrainians, 'You've got to come to the table, and if you don't come to the table, support from the United States will dry up,'" he said. "And you tell Putin, 'He's got to come to the table and if you don't come to the table, then we'll give Ukrainians everything they need to kill you in the field.'
According to their research paper, Moscow would also be coaxed to the table with the promise of NATO membership for Ukraine being put off for an extended period.
Russia invaded neighboring Ukraine in February 2022. Until some gains by Russia in recent months, the front lines barely moved since the end of that year, despite tens of thousands of dead on both sides in relentless trench warfare, the bloodiest fighting in Europe since World War Two.
Fleitz said Ukraine need not formally cede territory to Russia under their plan.
A lasting peace in Ukraine would require additional security guarantees for Ukraine, Kellogg and Fleitz said. Fleitz added that "arming Ukraine to the teeth" was likely to be a key element of that.
Plan seems heavily based on this white paper that Kellogg and Fleitz wrote earlier this year:
https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/america-first-russia-ukraine
TLDR:
1. Ceasefire freezing current battle lines. Ukraine does not have to formally cede areas claimed by Russia, but will not attempt to retake them militarily.
2. Ukraine gets no further military aid if they refuse to negotiate. Ukraine gets even more military aid than currently if Russia refuses to negotiate.
3. US provides Russia limited sanctions relief and agrees not to allow Ukraine to join NATO for an extended period (at least for as long as Putin runs the country), in exchange for Russia promising to encroach no further. What's left of Ukraine is provided with ongoing military aid and US/EU security guarantees to fend off future Russian aggression.
I dunno, doesn't really seem like something that Ukrainians would find acceptable?
They had promised that before...then they invaded Ukraine again.
The ONLY true guarantee against future Russian aggression is NATO admittance.
Correction said:
Trump's plan to end the war finally revealed?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/Quote:
Two key advisers to Donald Trump have presented him with a plan to end Russia's war in Ukraine - if he wins the Nov. 5 presidential election - that involves telling Ukraine it will only get more U.S. weapons if it enters peace talks.
The United States would at the same time warn Moscow that any refusal to negotiate would result in increased U.S. support for Ukraine.
Under the plan drawn up by Kellogg and Fred Fleitz, who both served as chiefs of staff in Trump's National Security Council during his 2017-2021 presidency, there would be a ceasefire based on prevailing battle lines during peace talks, Fleitz said.
They have presented their strategy to Trump, and the Republican presidential candidate responded favorably, Fleitz added.
Kellogg said it would be crucial to get Russia and Ukraine to the negotiating table quickly if Trump wins the election.
"We tell the Ukrainians, 'You've got to come to the table, and if you don't come to the table, support from the United States will dry up,'" he said. "And you tell Putin, 'He's got to come to the table and if you don't come to the table, then we'll give Ukrainians everything they need to kill you in the field.'
According to their research paper, Moscow would also be coaxed to the table with the promise of NATO membership for Ukraine being put off for an extended period.
Russia invaded neighboring Ukraine in February 2022. Until some gains by Russia in recent months, the front lines barely moved since the end of that year, despite tens of thousands of dead on both sides in relentless trench warfare, the bloodiest fighting in Europe since World War Two.
Fleitz said Ukraine need not formally cede territory to Russia under their plan.
A lasting peace in Ukraine would require additional security guarantees for Ukraine, Kellogg and Fleitz said. Fleitz added that "arming Ukraine to the teeth" was likely to be a key element of that.
Plan seems heavily based on this white paper that Kellogg and Fleitz wrote earlier this year:
https://americafirstpolicy.com/issues/america-first-russia-ukraine
TLDR:
1. Ceasefire freezing current battle lines. Ukraine does not have to formally cede areas claimed by Russia, but will not attempt to retake them militarily.
2. Ukraine gets no further military aid if they refuse to negotiate. Ukraine gets even more military aid than currently if Russia refuses to negotiate.
3. US provides Russia limited sanctions relief and agrees not to allow Ukraine to join NATO for an extended period (at least for as long as Putin runs the country), in exchange for Russia promising to encroach no further. What's left of Ukraine is provided with ongoing military aid and US/EU security guarantees to fend off future Russian aggression.
I dunno, doesn't really seem like something that Ukrainians would find acceptable?
Why would we want to end the war? Or at least think that we "must" end it? Why is that a priority?
At the end of the day it likely serves more of our strategic interests for it to continue, particularly if there is a way to help Ukraine eventually force Russia back to its' prewar positions. And how do we tell Ukraine how much of their sovereign territory they need to give up in order to make us happy?
To me, the war in Ukraine simply is, as a statement of fact. The only role we should play is to decide if we want to support Ukraine (which I think we should).
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
Waffledynamics said:Two Russian channel admins for channels we used very frequently were killed in combat and we wont be getting any more updates from them. pic.twitter.com/hTZEs7gi5q
— Andrew Perpetua (@AndrewPerpetua) June 24, 2024
That's a shame!
should tell us how things are going. Lots of KIA'sGilligan said:Waffledynamics said:Two Russian channel admins for channels we used very frequently were killed in combat and we wont be getting any more updates from them. pic.twitter.com/hTZEs7gi5q
— Andrew Perpetua (@AndrewPerpetua) June 24, 2024
That's a shame!
A blast from the past. "A propeller-driven Yak-52 primary training aircraft has appeared with an impressive collection of kill marks displayed on its fuselage; seemingly confirmation of its success in having been pressed into service as a drone-killer."
Yak-52
Yak-52
Thing reminds me of a TBF Avenger
That's a stupid ****ing plan. What you'll inevitably get is something like the Korean negotiations, where the Russians will negotiate in bad faith and use the opportunity to regroup and reorganize and either back away from the table to take another bite at the apple or just break any agreement later. They keep doing it because it keeps working. Then we and the Ukrainians are stuck with having to move a ton of supplies and equipment to push the Russians from even more territory.
A better solution is to just give the Ukrainians everything they need and let them push the Russians out or just join NATO. Give the Russians an inch and they'll take a mile.
A better solution is to just give the Ukrainians everything they need and let them push the Russians out or just join NATO. Give the Russians an inch and they'll take a mile.
ABATTBQ11 said:
That's a stupid ****ing plan. What you'll inevitably get is something like the Korean negotiations, where the Russians will negotiate in bad faith and use the opportunity to regroup and reorganize and either back away from the table to take another bite at the apple or just break any agreement later. They keep doing it because it keeps working. Then we and the Ukrainians are stuck with having to move a ton of supplies and equipment to push the Russians from even more territory.
A better solution is to just give the Ukrainians everything they need and let them push the Russians out or just join NATO. Give the Russians an inch and they'll take a mile.
12thFan/Websider Since 2003
Zelensky visits frontlines again (Putin zero visits), this time to introduce new joint commander, plus other news.
UPDATES
UPDATES
Did we talk about NK sending troops to Ukraine?
https://kyivindependent.com/north-korean-troops-fighting-in-ukraine-would-be-cannon-fodder-pentagon-says/
https://kyivindependent.com/north-korean-troops-fighting-in-ukraine-would-be-cannon-fodder-pentagon-says/
Here you go, plus other notes from the front: SITREP.Naveronski said:
Did we talk about NK sending troops to Ukraine?
https://kyivindependent.com/north-korean-troops-fighting-in-ukraine-would-be-cannon-fodder-pentagon-says/
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