suburban cowboy said:

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I'm no historian, but we are due and it feels like things have aligned in a way that could lead to China, Russia and Iran teaming up against the West.

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Depends on the time scale you're looking at. This will lead to significantly higher tensions between those countries and China/Russia/Iran and their satrapys.

Oh ***** Not Iran too.

suburban cowboy said:

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I'm no historian, but we are due and it feels like things have aligned in a way that could lead to China, Russia and Iran teaming up against the West.

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I think we have some distance before Ezekiel 38.

eric76 said:

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kb2001 said:

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Yes, it likely is the beginning of WWIII. As soon as Ukraine fights back on Russian troops, or any other country responds kinetically, it will get hot and stay hot. That would likely be what triggers China to join in on Russia's side and attack Taiwan.

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China doesn't have to join Russia's side to attack Taiwan. It is quite possible that they could take advantage of the opportunity to go after Taiwan on their own.

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China is not reactionary. They have a slow grind.

Yeah...the world against Russia and China.

Unlikely. FJB going to rollover and let Putin do whatever he wants. Kamala ain't doing nothing either.

agsalaska said:

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It is possible we never see peace again in our lifetime. At least not the kind of peace we grew up knowing.

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One of the overlooked side-affects of the cold war was that the word was more at peace than usual. The super powers, the U.S. and the Soviet Union, found it very useful to keep their satellite states under control to avoid creating a situation that can spin out of control.

10thYrSr said:

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eric76 said:

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kb2001 said:

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Yes, it likely is the beginning of WWIII. As soon as Ukraine fights back on Russian troops, or any other country responds kinetically, it will get hot and stay hot. That would likely be what triggers China to join in on Russia's side and attack Taiwan.

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China doesn't have to join Russia's side to attack Taiwan. It is quite possible that they could take advantage of the opportunity to go after Taiwan on their own.

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China is not reactionary. They have a slow grind.

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Yep. If WWIII happens, China would more than likely sit by and do nothing other than sell arms to anyone who wanted to buy them. Why get involved when you can watch while all of your rivals slug it out in a long, bloody, costly war?

eric76 said:

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kb2001 said:

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Yes, it likely is the beginning of WWIII. As soon as Ukraine fights back on Russian troops, or any other country responds kinetically, it will get hot and stay hot. That would likely be what triggers China to join in on Russia's side and attack Taiwan.

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China doesn't have to join Russia's side to attack Taiwan. It is quite possible that they could take advantage of the opportunity to go after Taiwan on their own.

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Of course they don't. But they've already leaked their internal guidelines to state media saying don't speak against Russia. It's clear that Russia and China are acting in concert. We also saw a joint naval maneuver with the two of them in the past 6 months.

When people fight back against Russia, the words have already been laid out for them to call it an attack on Russian peacekeeping forces. China will jump to "Russia's defense", knowing that their northern border is protected by Russia, and the rest of the world will now have two massive nations to fight.

Quote:

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I think we have some distance before Ezekiel 38.

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What about Ezekiel 25:17

Also, the one everyone seems to forget is South Korea. Also possibly Japan.

If China attacks Taiwan, NK will attack SK. Then what.

No.

Cold War 2.0? Sure. But not a war in the conventional sense.

pagerman @ work said:

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No.

Cold War 2.0? Sure. But not a war in the conventional sense.

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The Cold War included the Korean War, the Vietnam War, countless wars in Africa and South and Central America, and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Not to mention the Chinese revolution.

suburban cowboy said:

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I'm no historian, but we are due and it feels like things have aligned in a way that could lead to China, Russia and Iran teaming up against the West.

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Yes. When Europe goes to war the whole world gets involved. China is in security council. We will want their votes to pressure Putin. Will they? Unlikely. China will be playing the long game. How to weaken its neighbor Russia while it weakens Europe and the US without it getting to involved so it can go in and keep building its economy. It will likely take billions of dollars in military and healthcare orders to help all the countries going to war. It will deplete the west while it strengthens itself.

We will be sucked in. It WILL be in our best interests at some point to do so.

agsalaska said:

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I think so. At least it is a real, if not likely, possibility.

I think we could break and become a non factor, too involved in our own domestic Troubles or Balkans type conflict at home. The tipping point is our new found lack of trust in our elections. We will eventually break.

When that happens China and Russia will dominate. Most of Asia will fall to the communists and eventually Eastern Europe will fall to the oligarchs. Africa will be owned by China and be communist. South America will too.

It is possible we never see peace again in our lifetime. At least not the kind of peace we grew up knowing.

Possible yes. Likely. Not sure.

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We've been at war in Iraq and Afghanistan for the last 20 years so it isn't like we have seen peace over that time. And we conducted full scale invasions of both of those countries. This invasion of Ukraine may result in less bloodshed than both of the wars we started. I truly hope that is the case.

agsalaska said:

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pagerman @ work said:

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No.

Cold War 2.0? Sure. But not a war in the conventional sense.

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The Cold War included the Korean War, the Vietnam War, countless wars in Africa and South and Central America, and the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. Not to mention the Chinese revolution.

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Yep. But you did not (and will not) see armed direct conflict between Russia and NATO.

Agreed.

kb2001 said:

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eric76 said:

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kb2001 said:

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Yes, it likely is the beginning of WWIII. As soon as Ukraine fights back on Russian troops, or any other country responds kinetically, it will get hot and stay hot. That would likely be what triggers China to join in on Russia's side and attack Taiwan.

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China doesn't have to join Russia's side to attack Taiwan. It is quite possible that they could take advantage of the opportunity to go after Taiwan on their own.

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Of course they don't. But they've already leaked their internal guidelines to state media saying don't speak against Russia. It's clear that Russia and China are acting in concert. We also saw a joint naval maneuver with the two of them in the past 6 months.

When people fight back against Russia, the words have already been laid out for them to call it an attack on Russian peacekeeping forces. China will jump to "Russia's defense", knowing that their northern border is protected by Russia, and the rest of the world will now have two massive nations to fight.

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I don't think China likes what Russia is doing. That's fear lingering. But they sure will take advantage of it and build arms and electronics and healthcare supplies to all the countries at war.

No, not likely at least.

Geopolitics being what they it will take a lot more to light off that firecracker. But the posts above basically saying this is a step towards a changed paradigm will likely prove correct.

American/western resolve and commitment has been changing for decades as generations that actually knew what sacrifice meant have dwindled and the reality of conflict and threat of loss moved from vivid memory to distant theory.

Russian interests to retake a seat as actual global influencer never went away and now three decades later are starting to manifest.

China's impact as a force on the global power paradigm hasn't even been felt yet and likely won't until Xi is good and ready to challenge all comers. The disappointing reality is that we are directly culpable for enabling the Chinese rise by exporting jobs and industry there, and arguably by allowing the 2008 financial crisis to happen. If they make it through the turmoil in their debt markets they may well have a larger economy that the US in the next decade. At that point we lose basically all levers but military action, and one choice is no choice when disagreements inevitably arise.

suburban cowboy said:

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I'm no historian, but we are due and it feels like things have aligned in a way that could lead to China, Russia and Iran teaming up against the West.

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We are due for what? World Wars aren't predictable and cyclical like ice ages. In thousands of years of warfare we've had a whopping TWO wars of great enough scale to call them World Wars, and they were within 21ish years of each other 77+ years ago.

Rockdoc said:

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Well they certainly got what they wanted. Biden and the dems in charge for 3 more years.

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impeach

In Europe, I don't think so. Putin may be ex KGB, but they were known as pragmatic opportunists, not fanatics. Putin will go as far as Europe will allow.

China is more of a wildcard and in ways more dangerous. Now is the smart time to take Taiwan. If they get greedy, that could easily lead to war in the Pacific.

The biggest risk is a nuclear Iran and NK. A BSC country might pop the cork on the nuclear genie, and once open might not stop.