SpaceX and other space news updates

2,561,976 Views | 22512 Replies | Last: 45 min ago by Kenneth_2003
Rapier108
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techno-ag said:



Rusty and KBTX are in mourning today.

They spent months doing their best to get the project killed.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
techno-ag
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Governor Abbott's announcement regarding Terafab:

https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-announces-spacex-expansion-in-grimes-county

The left cannot kill the Spirit of Charlie Kirk.
Ag87H2O
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techno-ag said:




That will be one magnificent facility. This is going to change College Station forever. It is incredibly exciting to see what Musk is doing and how integral the BCS region will be in the process.

I am thankful that Californians were Californians and pushed Musk to move to Texas, and thankful we are a red state with the best business climate in the country.
will25u
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

- Abraham Lincoln
hph6203
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Mildly surprised Boring Company wasn't at least nodded to during the hype video.

.
PJYoung
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TexAgs91 said:



ELON! What's your deal lately?

I don't know how closely you observe Elon but the dude stays up half the night reposting stuff several days a week. His sleep schedule is nuts.

I have no idea how he keeps going with all of his companies but it doesn't seem healthy.

I highly recommend the Eric Berger books talking about SpaceX origins and then Starship. I read another biography as well that had a lot of insights. The dude is wired much differently than the rest of us to say the least.
PJYoung
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ABATTBQ11
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Would be pretty awesome turnaround time.
normaleagle05
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What an astute observation.

will25u
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

- Abraham Lincoln
normaleagle05
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Came here to post this, but then....

PJYoung
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Humans for scale:



will25u
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"We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

- Abraham Lincoln
double aught
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I don't really see the need for this gal to point out how Neil Armstrong didn't correctly predict the future 15 years ago.
Kenneth_2003
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I'm not a big fan of hers, but I think she's right here.

Its not that those Niel and Gene were right or wrong. I think the bigger disappointment is their taking the position that a private startup can't or couldn't do it, and asserting that the government funding anything that wasn't the old guard and traditional way was wrong. Even moreso that giving a startup a shot was a mistake.

If, based on that clip, those two had their way... Soyuz would STILL be the only ride to and from the ISS. Or maybe with a few more billion Boeing could finally get around to testing and fixing their thrusters. Well... after they fixed their mission clock. That still only flies on bought Russian engines.

It's less Elon being right or wrong and more about a mindset that certain companies own or deserve a monopoly on access because of 60 year old laurels.
Decay
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As part of our capstone class at A&M we got to interview someone fairly high up in NASA around 2011-2012. They basically had the same opinion that safety and effectiveness would be sacrificed for profit and that it wouldn't work. For the way we did spaceflight, I agree.

Automation changed the game though. Elon and SpaceX can do dozens of paid, customer launches with more leeway to test and iterate because no lives are at stake. They just haul satellites over and over until they're confident in the systems. Elon said himself that they have advantages over space shuttle because of that. The strict safety requirements for every flight being manned paradoxically make them less safe.
bthotugigem05
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I remember how crushed Elon was when that interview came out with Neil.
TexAgs91
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Neil and Gene might have been right if one of the commercial launch companies hadn't been SpaceX. I think the most we could have expected out of the other commercial launch companies would have been a very slightly more innovative status quo rocket. And it would have taken much longer to see results.
No, I don't care what CNN or Miss NOW said this time
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Kenneth_2003
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Decay said:

As part of our capstone class at A&M we got to interview someone fairly high up in NASA around 2011-2012. They basically had the same opinion that safety and effectiveness would be sacrificed for profit and that it wouldn't work. For the way we did spaceflight, I agree.

Automation changed the game though. Elon and SpaceX can do dozens of paid, customer launches with more leeway to test and iterate because no lives are at stake. They just haul satellites over and over until they're confident in the systems. Elon said himself that they have advantages over space shuttle because of that. The strict safety requirements for every flight being manned paradoxically make them less safe.


It's an insanely stupid take though. It's Boeing not driven to make a profit? Is Lockheed not driven to make a profit? Do their stockholders not care if the stock tanks?

Jokes aside about both of those companies failures...

Safety isn't dictated by the contractor. Safety is determined by who writes and enforced mission rules. Safety is dictated by NASA. NASA has final say with their facilities, with their astronauts, and with their space station. Who wanted Challenger to launch? Who was pushing back?

Respect to Gene and Neil, but they were stubbornly wrong here.
bthotugigem05
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I just don't think they had the foresight to think that a private company would be capable of launching hundreds of rockets when NASA was only barely capable of it with the combined efforts of hundreds of thousands of people and billions upon billions of dollars. They were wrong but their take was defensible I think.
nortex97
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Very few at the time thought SpaceX would deliver on the F9 program. It came within a single failure of collapsing, of course, so it was not an unreasonable belief that it 'wouldn't work.' But some see it as a rivalry which, in reality for human spaceflight they had to partner with Nasa initially to learn the 'rules' essentially.

There is still great skepticism within certain corners of Nasa as well that the starship can ever become human rated, as there is no intent to provide an abort mechanism for the people on it.

Anyway, NET Aug 28th, fwiw. I think the plan will be to launch it and then catch the upper stage roughly 12 hours later.

Nancy Roman Grace FH is Aug 30th right now. I believe that is going to expend the core but RTLS for the boosters for anyone lucky enough to be down around the Cape for it.
AtlAg05
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nortex97 said:

Very few at the time thought SpaceX would deliver on the F9 program. It came within a single failure of collapsing, of course, so it was not an unreasonable belief that it 'wouldn't work.' But some see it as a rivalry which, in reality for human spaceflight they had to partner with Nasa initially to learn the 'rules' essentially.

There is still great skepticism within certain corners of Nasa as well that the starship can ever become human rated, as there is no intent to provide an abort mechanism for the people on it.




Doesn't that mean NASA will not allow it to launch people? I've never looked into it, but not having NASA required criteria when the goal is to get people to Mars seems odd.

Edit: Went through Grok to get more info.

So Starship doesn't have the Launch Escape System, but NASA doesn't require specifically LES, just the ability to abort and obviously reduce risk with testing redundancy, etc. The stated capacity for starship is around 100 people, so LES would not work.

Starship does have multiple abort capabilities, including what we saw when not enough engines lit, starship separation if the booster fails, etc. To think about it another way, LES was designed to meet the abort requirement, not a requirement itself.
nortex97
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Two main issues are that for Nasa astronauts/man-rating starship would have to (a) provide a manual control option in all flight phases, and (b) crew escape options. Discussion of the latter below. SpaceX intends to operate it privately for human launches I think until a safety track record is sufficient to overcome that for Nasa, but these just are not chosen/inherent options for the Starship program, respectively.
https://www.youtube.com/live/K2uWK8-QF9M
bmks270
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bthotugigem05 said:

I just don't think they had the foresight to think that a private company would be capable of launching hundreds of rockets when NASA was only barely capable of it with the combined efforts of hundreds of thousands of people and billions upon billions of dollars. They were wrong but their take was defensible I think.


Turns out MASA and bureaucrats were the problem, not private companies.
TexAgs91
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The shuttle did not have an abort option. After challenger they came up with that rod that they could slide down that gets them away from the orbiter and then they'd parachute away, but I think that had pretty limited usage and they ended up launching without it.
No, I don't care what CNN or Miss NOW said this time
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nortex97
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Yeah I won't go too far on the shuttle, but it was always a dangerous vehicle (and I feel the same way about Artemis/SLS today). Maybe a decent concept/tech. for the 70's military mission out of Vandenberg it was designed to be capable of.

The parachute stuff was ridiculous. Elon has talked about the manual control, abort options not being part of starship because they would just make it more dangerous, not really worth getting into again imho, but to say I agree.

Again there is still a sizable nasa bureaucratic faction that is anti-privatization and resents SpaceX most of all. If Democrats win either chamber, let alone the presidency in 2028, they will have a lot of headaches again within 12-24 months relative to their launch cadence plans (and hence shareholders will take an absolute beating).

Spacex: "We don't need more/new rules."
TexAgs91
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I'm just mentioning the shuttle to say it doesn't look like there's an abort system requirement to be man rated.
No, I don't care what CNN or Miss NOW said this time
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Malachi Constant
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WTF is the bureau of oceanic energy management?
nortex97
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That one was a new one to me too!

ETA, part of the Dept of the Interior.
https://www.boem.gov/
double aught
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TexAgs91 said:

The shuttle did not have an abort option. After challenger they came up with that rod that they could slide down that gets them away from the orbiter and then they'd parachute away, but I think that had pretty limited usage and they ended up launching without it.
The shuttle had various abort options that were determined by how far into the launch the vehicle was. At least one, return to landing site (RTLS), was quite precarious and probably wouldn't have been successful. They even used the abort to orbit (ATO) option once, when the engines shut down prematurely.

Of course the real danger turned out to be that the crew was attached to the side of the stack as opposed to the top, leaving no recourse should the booster or fuel tank fail catastrophically.
double aught
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Malachi Constant said:

WTF is the bureau of oceanic energy management?
Are they responsible for making the waves when you go to the beach?
Kenneth_2003
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nortex97 said:

That one was a new one to me too!

ETA, part of the Dept of the Interior.
https://www.boem.gov/

I'm pulling a blank on their old name, but they changed to BOEM after the Deepwater Horizon blowout if I recall.
fullback44
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Malachi Constant said:

WTF is the bureau of oceanic energy management?


This department needs to go to the President of Argentina an let him purge it
TexAgs91
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double aught said:

TexAgs91 said:

The shuttle did not have an abort option. After challenger they came up with that rod that they could slide down that gets them away from the orbiter and then they'd parachute away, but I think that had pretty limited usage and they ended up launching without it.
The shuttle had various abort options that were determined by how far into the launch the vehicle was. At least one, return to landing site (RTLS), was quite precarious and probably wouldn't have been successful. They even used the abort to orbit (ATO) option once, when the engines shut down prematurely.

Of course the real danger turned out to be that the crew was attached to the side of the stack as opposed to the top, leaving no recourse should the booster or fuel tank fail catastrophically.


Ah yes of course. And I even worked on a trainer for those. I was thinking more of an ejection/LAS (launch abort system) option.
No, I don't care what CNN or Miss NOW said this time
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nortex97
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Our government can really be comical most of the time. Of course the outer continental shelf is regulated by the department of the interior. Obviously it's run by political appointees which is good for now but charting 'course toward a quieter acoustic footprint in offshore operations' is not something I think that will be organically friendly toward Starship V4 launches some day.

It sounds like gov't busy-bodies who, frankly, should have no oversight of space flight operations at all. This isn't about extracting oil/gas/minerals. The acting director looks like a nice guy, but also apparently could be in his mid-20's. I doubt he's functionally running a tight ship over the careerists, so to speak.

They've received nearly 12,000 comments. Some are comical such as the Santa Barbara county environazi one, some seem motivated to figure out a way to suck money from SpaceX for 'research' I think such as this one from an 'Ole Miss National Center for physical acoustics' department;

Again, I just have to laugh/shake my head.
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