Lots of confusion vs. Ammonium Nitrate or Potassium Nitrate or Sodium Nitrate.aggiehawg said:
Saltpeter?
I think it was Ammonium Nitrate, not saltpeter or meat preservative.
Major explosion in Beirut
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Last: 3 yr ago by C@LAg
I think it was Ammonium Nitrate, not saltpeter or meat preservative.
Potassium nitrate's more common name.aggiehawg said:
Saltpeter?
Lots of confusion, indeed. Is the explosive volatility of salt peter on a par with ammonium nitrate?CanyonAg77 said:Lots of confusion vs. Ammonium Nitrate or Potassium Nitrate or Sodium Nitrate.aggiehawg said:
Saltpeter?
I think it was Ammonium Nitrate, not saltpeter or meat preservative.
Google translate might have also been wrong.
I wanted to google it, but I also don't want to wind up on a FBI watch list.aggiehawg said:Lots of confusion, indeed. Is the explosive volatility of salt peter on a par with ammonium nitrate?CanyonAg77 said:Lots of confusion vs. Ammonium Nitrate or Potassium Nitrate or Sodium Nitrate.aggiehawg said:
Saltpeter?
I think it was Ammonium Nitrate, not saltpeter or meat preservative.
Maybe 100 years ago, but not today. Today you fill up a couple bulk grain vessels, with onboard offloading gear, sail to that location in 2-3 weeks & then anchor up for as long as required.DisappointedAg said:
Continuing with a conspiracy theory...were the grain silos the actual target? Knocking out 85% of the country's grain would be damaging. Wouldn't kill that many people initially, but the long term effect could be devastating.
This is potassium nitrate
Port already has newly arrived ships docked at undamaged quays?
What were they going to do? Turn around?
I'd think there'd be no thru-put for their cargo at the moment.
chimpanzee said:
It's hard to think that someone would store that much ammonium nitrate in an urban location, but then again, one or two greased palms in a place where people are accustomed to not asking too many questions of the wrong people and no one even knows.
It was confiscated from a Russian businessman who abandoned a ship there when he went bankrupt about 5 years ago. Ship made an unscheduled stop for repairs on its way to Africa, he went bankrupt around the same time, and he abandoned it there with the crew and cargo stuck on board. It was a danger on the ship, so it was temporarily moved to the warehouse. That temporary move became a lot more permanent than anyone intended. The port officials wanted it re-exported because they knew it was dangerous, but it was stuck in the Lebanese court system and the courts weren't responding to the port officials who wanted to move it. It pretty much got stuck in limbo with, "Who owns it?" and, "Who is responsible for getting it off the docks?" and got tossed around like a legal hot potato in bureaucracy until it got bored and moved itself off the docks in record time.
The red mist at the very end of that!
unbelievable
ABATTBQ11 said:chimpanzee said:
It's hard to think that someone would store that much ammonium nitrate in an urban location, but then again, one or two greased palms in a place where people are accustomed to not asking too many questions of the wrong people and no one even knows.
It was confiscated from a Russian businessman who abandoned a ship there when he went bankrupt about 5 years ago. Ship made an unscheduled stop for repairs on its way to Africa, he went bankrupt around the same time, and he abandoned it there with the crew and cargo stuck on board. It was a danger on the ship, so it was temporarily moved to the warehouse. That temporary move became a lot more permanent than anyone intended. The port officials wanted it re-exported because they knew or was dangerous, but it was stuck in the Lebanese court system and the courts weren't responding to the port officials who wanted to move it. It pretty much got stuck in limbo with, "Who owns it?" and, "Who is responsible for getting it off the docks?" and got tossed around like a legal hot potato in bureaucracy until it got bored and moved itself off the docks in record time.
At this point it definitely looks like what it is on the surface. A horrible industrial accident.
Say what ya want about OSHA and other program we have in place, (and please do, I love bashing OSHA) but they do serve their main purpose. As much as I can see that overall situation developing here, the actual product itself would never have been allowed to stay where it was in that condition for that long.
This gives a good view as to what was probably shielded a bit by the silos.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eeov0RYXoAAI6cc?format=jpg&name=large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eeov0RYXoAAI6cc?format=jpg&name=large
Being stored that long close to an elevator makes me think it may have had a nice layer of grain dust to use as fuel.
OSHA or not, we have local, state and federal level politicians that are accountable to voters. You have the warehouse owner that wouldn't want to house an unstable nuke indefinitely, his insurance company and neighbors that can raise all kind of cane over the issue.Eliminatus said:ABATTBQ11 said:chimpanzee said:
It's hard to think that someone would store that much ammonium nitrate in an urban location, but then again, one or two greased palms in a place where people are accustomed to not asking too many questions of the wrong people and no one even knows.
It was confiscated from a Russian businessman who abandoned a ship there when he went bankrupt about 5 years ago. Ship made an unscheduled stop for repairs on its way to Africa, he went bankrupt around the same time, and he abandoned it there with the crew and cargo stuck on board. It was a danger on the ship, so it was temporarily moved to the warehouse. That temporary move became a lot more permanent than anyone intended. The port officials wanted it re-exported because they knew or was dangerous, but it was stuck in the Lebanese court system and the courts weren't responding to the port officials who wanted to move it. It pretty much got stuck in limbo with, "Who owns it?" and, "Who is responsible for getting it off the docks?" and got tossed around like a legal hot potato in bureaucracy until it got bored and moved itself off the docks in record time.
At this point it definitely looks like what it is on the surface. A horrible industrial accident.
Say what ya want about OSHA and other program we have in place, (and please do, I love bashing OSHA) but they do serve their main purpose. As much as I can see that overall situation developing here, the actual product itself would never have been allowed to stay where it was in that condition for that long.
In places like Beruit, all this "civilization" stuff we take for granted isn't there.
I just assumed those weren't present in the "before" picture. Obviously some of the ships there now were in the before picture... Namely the two partially ripped from their stern moorings and the one deposited on the docks, but do we know the exact date of that before shot?74OA said:
Port already has newly arrived ships docked at undamaged quays?
something...something...white privilegeQuote:
OSHA or not, we have local, state and federal level politicians that are accountable to voters. You have the warehouse owner that wouldn't want to house an unstable nuke indefinitely, his insurance company and neighbors that can raise all kind of cane over the issue.
In places like Beruit, all this "civilization" stuff we take for granted isn't there.
Also, the 2700 number being reported... is that 2700 metric tons?
That'd be nearly 3000 short tons.
That'd be nearly 3000 short tons.
From everywhere I read, yes.TexasRebel said:
Also, the 2700 number being reported... is that 2700 metric tons?
That'd be nearly 3000 short tons.
There is a picture somewhere of the bags in the warehouse... supposedly.
Damn... The water makes that crater easy to find in the after pic.
Also, this leveled about 20 buildings by my count
i don't disagree, but remember West basically that was a town that grew itself around the plant. Nobody really understood nor recognized the hazards that were there over time.chimpanzee said:OSHA or not, we have local, state and federal level politicians that are accountable to voters. You have the warehouse owner that wouldn't want to house an unstable nuke indefinitely, his insurance company and neighbors that can raise all kind of cane over the issue.Eliminatus said:ABATTBQ11 said:chimpanzee said:
It's hard to think that someone would store that much ammonium nitrate in an urban location, but then again, one or two greased palms in a place where people are accustomed to not asking too many questions of the wrong people and no one even knows.
It was confiscated from a Russian businessman who abandoned a ship there when he went bankrupt about 5 years ago. Ship made an unscheduled stop for repairs on its way to Africa, he went bankrupt around the same time, and he abandoned it there with the crew and cargo stuck on board. It was a danger on the ship, so it was temporarily moved to the warehouse. That temporary move became a lot more permanent than anyone intended. The port officials wanted it re-exported because they knew or was dangerous, but it was stuck in the Lebanese court system and the courts weren't responding to the port officials who wanted to move it. It pretty much got stuck in limbo with, "Who owns it?" and, "Who is responsible for getting it off the docks?" and got tossed around like a legal hot potato in bureaucracy until it got bored and moved itself off the docks in record time.
At this point it definitely looks like what it is on the surface. A horrible industrial accident.
Say what ya want about OSHA and other program we have in place, (and please do, I love bashing OSHA) but they do serve their main purpose. As much as I can see that overall situation developing here, the actual product itself would never have been allowed to stay where it was in that condition for that long.
In places like Beruit, all this "civilization" stuff we take for granted isn't there.
yes, we in the US surely are better in a general sense. but we have plenty of recent examples of major incidents filled with regulatory failure and lack of hazard recognition.
Wonder what 2750 metric tons equates to in TNT?
This article on the product suggests roughly 15% equivalent so 415 - 420 tons.flakrat said:
Wonder what 2750 metric tons equates to in TNT?
1155 tons (1.155 kiltons) of TNT equivalent based on the DOD's manual which says ammonium nitrate has 42% of the explosive power of TNT.flakrat said:
Wonder what 2750 metric tons equates to in TNT?
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
The final numbers would be the same:Reginald Cousins said:Aggie12B said:
So, i've been reading up a little on the Beirut explosion. They are saying that 2700 TONS of ammonium nitrate were being stored at the port in Beirut. I don't know what caused the initial explosion, but 2700 TONS of ammonium nitrate (NH4NO3) definitely would have made a big boom. I dug out my old Engineer's Bible (FM3-24) to check out some things. Doing the calculations: 2700 tons =5,400,000 Lbs of NH4NO3, multiplied by .42 (RE factor of NH4NO3) gives you Net Explosive Weight (NEW) equal to 2,268,000 blocks ( 1134 tons) of TNT being detonated assuming all 2700 tons of NH4NO3 detonated
For comparison purposes: The Texas City disaster on 16April 1947 was a result of 2200 TONS of NH4NO3 exploding, which by the calculation would have had a NEW equal to 1,848,000 blocks ( 924 tons) of TNT
All demo calculations are based off on TNT. All explosives have an RE factor (relative explosiveness Factor) in relation to TNT. NH4NO3 (ammonium nitrate) has an RE factor of 0.42. C4 has an RE of 1.34. NEW equals the total pounds of explosives expressed in TNT equivalent. the formula is: quantity x weight x RE factor = NEW
(Edited to correct the Math and to make sure the proper terminology was used.)
Think it was metric tons in Beirut, but nice work!
2700 tons X 2000 pounds/ton X .42 divided by 2000 pounds/ton =1134 tons;
likewise,
2700 metric tons X 2204.62 ponds/ metric ton X.42 divided by 2204.62 pounds/ metric ton =1134 metric tons
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