China Coronavirus Outbreak Spreads; Hundreds Infected As Human-To-Human Transmission

3,371,453 Views | 21819 Replies | Last: 22 days ago by ttu_85
Bobcat06
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This is from a conversation about the FDA press conference this morning with a friend who works in drug licensing/insurance/approval for a major hospital and knows the bureaucratic process much better than me:

Quote:

Basically FDA commissioner said they are moving for expanded access of plaquenil (h-cholroquine) for COVID-19.

It's an FDA-approved drug (malaria and auto-immune diseases), and a doctor can give it now off-label, so you can get this if your doctor is willing to give it to you. When the FDA approves drugs, they approve them for specific indications they don't approve drugs for just anything and everything (i.e. FDA approved labeling). plaquenil is approved, but not approved for COVID-19, so it would have to undergo long clinical trials to change approved indications/labeling.

Some insurance will not cover off-label use of drugs for medical practice. It's smart for FDA to push for expanded access because the doctors have to give the data on the patient back to the FDA. I

f a doctor uses plaquenil off label the doctor doesn't have to give the patient data back to the FDA. So in essence it looks like what the FDA is doing is going to make plaquenil available under expanded access and collect safety and efficacy data in real time, rather than the traditional clinical trial route. Smart move in my opinion.
DTP02
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BallerStaf2003 said:

Why does he do this?

Trump: Its a hoax.
WHO: No its not.

Trump: It's the flu
CDC: No its not.

Trump: Vaccine in 3 mos.
Industry: No.

Trump: Whoever wants a test can get it.
Pence: No they cant.

Trump: Theres a medicine to treat it.
FDA: No there isnt.


What would you say about someone who posted a tweet as factual that wasn't honest? Because that's what you did.

Maybe watch the video from the presser instead of relying on some random tweet about it before you criticize. It's true that Trump was more optimistic than the FDA guy, but that tweet makes Trump's words more positively definitive than they were, and the FDA guys words more negatively definitive than they were.

The truth is that Trump said it would be available soon and it was a promising treatment, and the FDA guy said Trump has told him to fasttrack it and they are, but they haven't approved it yet although the fact that it's been in use for a long time makes it much easier/quicker.

Their comments were much more complementary than you are making them out to be. Add in the fact that Trump's comments with the FDA guy right there put even more pressure on the FDA to approve quickly, and Trump's comments make even more sense. Add to that the fact that the president has stated this publicly will likely encourage doctors to anticipate FDA approval and prescribe it now, and Trump's comments not only make total sense, but are actually very smart.

Trump's done a good job on his recent pressers. You should listen to them instead of letting some random person on twitter make up your mind for you.
Zobel
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/19/trump-says-fda-approved-anti-malaria-drug-chloroquine-to-test-as-coronavirus-treatment/#659377db303d

The FDA commissioner spoke in the same meeting.

Get off of twitter.
aginlakeway
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BallerStaf2003 said:

Why does he do this?

Trump: Its a hoax.
WHO: No its not.

Trump: It's the flu
CDC: No its not.

Trump: Vaccine in 3 mos.
Industry: No.

Trump: Whoever wants a test can get it.
Pence: No they cant.

Trump: Theres a medicine to treat it.
FDA: No there isnt.


That tweet is inaccurate. FWIW. Does that matter to you?
cone
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the FDA basically said smoke em if you got em
Philip J Fry
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Just calling a TDS spade a spade.
captkirk
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Bobcat06 said:

This is from a conversation about the FDA press conference this morning with a friend who works in drug licensing/insurance/approval for a major hospital and knows the bureaucratic process much better than me:

Quote:

Basically FDA commissioner said they are moving for expanded access of plaquenil (h-cholroquine) for COVID-19.

It's an FDA-approved drug (malaria and auto-immune diseases), and a doctor can give it now off-label, so you can get this if your doctor is willing to give it to you. When the FDA approves drugs, they approve them for specific indications they don't approve drugs for just anything and everything (i.e. FDA approved labeling). plaquenil is approved, but not approved for COVID-19, so it would have to undergo long clinical trials to change approved indications/labeling.

Some insurance will not cover off-label use of drugs for medical practice. It's smart for FDA to push for expanded access because the doctors have to give the data on the patient back to the FDA. I

f a doctor uses plaquenil off label the doctor doesn't have to give the patient data back to the FDA. So in essence it looks like what the FDA is doing is going to make plaquenil available under expanded access and collect safety and efficacy data in real time, rather than the traditional clinical trial route. Smart move in my opinion.

So Trump was correct
BallerStaf2003
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[That's the end of this derailment, everyone. Let's get this back on track--Staff]
backintexas2013
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This thread went down the ****ter
IrishTxAggie
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dermdoc
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k2aggie07 said:

I don't give a single solitary f--- if the FDA hasn't approved chloroquine for COVID19. Docs are gonna use it off label and tell the FDA to get bent. And YOU have no idea if the FDA has or hasn't approved it or who in the FDA makes that call or if the FDA left hand knows what the right is doing. Or who told President Trump that.

Take the partisan politics out of it.
Amen. Trust me, docs are already trying hydroxychloroquine or any other meds they think might work. And the whole hidsit thing of looking at Trump's statements is stupid imho.
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dermdoc
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Bobcat06 said:

This is from a conversation about the FDA press conference this morning with a friend who works in drug licensing/insurance/approval for a major hospital and knows the bureaucratic process much better than me:

Quote:

Basically FDA commissioner said they are moving for expanded access of plaquenil (h-cholroquine) for COVID-19.

It's an FDA-approved drug (malaria and auto-immune diseases), and a doctor can give it now off-label, so you can get this if your doctor is willing to give it to you. When the FDA approves drugs, they approve them for specific indications they don't approve drugs for just anything and everything (i.e. FDA approved labeling). plaquenil is approved, but not approved for COVID-19, so it would have to undergo long clinical trials to change approved indications/labeling.

Some insurance will not cover off-label use of drugs for medical practice. It's smart for FDA to push for expanded access because the doctors have to give the data on the patient back to the FDA. I

f a doctor uses plaquenil off label the doctor doesn't have to give the patient data back to the FDA. So in essence it looks like what the FDA is doing is going to make plaquenil available under expanded access and collect safety and efficacy data in real time, rather than the traditional clinical trial route. Smart move in my opinion.

Exactly what the FDA doc said in the presser today.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
dermdoc
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BallerStaf2003 said:

spider96 said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Wasn't specific. Approving it for clinical trials is nowhere close to approval.

So yes, he was wrong Again and words matter.

Sorry if that bothers you but it's the truth.
You're quibbling on this one.


That is a massive difference. My company has clinical trials all the time on products that never make it to market. Clinical trials also take a very long time. Even if it's fast tracked that is nowhere close to the same thing as fda approval.
What you are describing is totally different. This is not a clinical trial or study. It is merely allowing docs to use the meds for off label uses.

And it is not traditional "FDA approval". It is merely allowing docs to use the meds.
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IrishTxAggie
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BallerStaf2003
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Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Bobcat06
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IrishTxAggie said:


Obligatory username checks out
. . .
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dermdoc
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BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.
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spider96
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Yup, some of the responses to you are over the top.
ham98
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I think the previous page of this thread gave me coronovirus...
BallerStaf2003
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dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.
black_hat_ag
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Pray for gods healing hand
PJYoung
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After reading the previous 2 pages:


BallerStaf2003
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It's not that bad but I can see how it would destroy an older person. Just walking around the house I get exhausted. Also sleeping about 16 hours a day.
ham98
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BallerStaf2003 said:

dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.
Can you get a test to an international lab that isn't CDC or FDA regulated?
black_hat_ag
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BallerStaf2003 said:

It's not that bad but I can see how it would destroy an older person. Just walking around the house I get exhausted. Also sleeping about 16 hours a day.


Wow. Get better soon sir.
BallerStaf2003
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ham98 said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.
Can you get a test to an international lab that isn't CDC or FDA regulated?


I honestly stopped exploring options after I called my doctor and he said thst as long as I'm not too bad not to waste a test. In LA there are so many sick people and they really need to be tested so I'm just complying and staying home.

I heard Ucla is doing their own tests but the line is blocks long n
Reginald Cousins
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S
BallerStaf2003 said:

dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.


You don't need a test.
dermdoc
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BallerStaf2003 said:

ham98 said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.
Can you get a test to an international lab that isn't CDC or FDA regulated?


I honestly stopped exploring options after I called my doctor and he said thst as long as I'm not too bad not to waste a test. In LA there are so many sick people and they really need to be tested so I'm just complying and staying home.

I heard Ucla is doing their own tests but the line is blocks long n
Understand and get better soon.
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DTP02
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BallerStaf2003 said:

dermdoc said:

BallerStaf2003 said:

Um, have you seen the psychotic responses? People are quite sensitive today and it isn't me.

Sorry, trump is far from perfect. It's ok to admit that. Makes you look actually mentally stable admitting it once in a while.
Nobody is saying he is. We are just concentrating on the important stuff like actual action which imho mean a lot more than words. And the key things are that Trump has gotten a ton of stuff done as far as getting the FDA to let docs write the meds, stimulating manufacture of PPEs, and ramping up the tests available.
And he has let the states keep their autonomy for the most part.
Imho you have to be really partisan not to see that. But that is just me.


Maybe I'm personally frustrated as I've been home for seven days in a row with a fever, chills and fatigue for almost all of them and zero ability to get a test to know what I have.
I'm sure that really stinks and I'm sympathetic, but what is it exactly you're hoping to gain from the "certainty" of knowing what is causing your symptoms?

You're not really going to treat your symptoms any differently, right? I've had the flu and gotten tested, and I've had what I'm sure was the flu and not gotten tested. I didn't benefit from knowing it was the flu.

I'm assuming that if you think you have coronavirus, you're self-quarantining and have let contacts know, so you're not really going to change your habits, right?

And even the more accurate tests being used in the US still have a significant false positive and false negative, so you really can't get true certainty.

The emphasis on testing seems much more psychological and emotional than rational. We want to have certainty even if that doesn't really change anything.
Philip J Fry
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Assume you have it and self medicate like you would any other cold.

Go to the hospital if it gets hard the breath.

DTP02
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. . . said:


You know what I would love to see? A celebrity/athlete who had reason to think they might have coronavirus who didn't get tested.

"I have some symptoms consistent with coronavirus and it's possible I was exposed, but I don't feel the need to take up valuable medical resources to get tested at this time. I am self-quarantining and will seek medical attention if my symptoms worsen,"

Barring that, I would love to see our celebrity-worshipping public turn on some of these pampered narcissists.
Rapier108
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. . . said:


New Orleans got hit by a super spreader. They went from nothing to a large number faster than NYC did.

Most if not all goes back to a conference where someone (probably from NYC) brought it there and spread it all over the place. IIRC, the person was showing symptoms while in attendance.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
DTP02
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Philip J Fry said:

Assume you have it and self medicate like you would any other cold.

Go to the hospital if it gets hard the breath.


I would add to that if you think you have coronavirus and live alone, make sure someone is checking in with you during that 7-8 day mark from symptom onset, that seems to be when things start getting bad in the serious cases, and you may need a ride to the doctor.
Phat32
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....or he feels like absolute trash and his doctor ordered the test.

Maybe find out the story before determining an outcome?
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