China Coronavirus Outbreak Spreads; Hundreds Infected As Human-To-Human Transmission

3,234,146 Views | 21764 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by Stat Monitor Repairman
lead
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Quote:

The idea of relying on other countries to do proper checks is insane. At the very least, everyone coming from overseas should be handed an N95 mask and directed to go straight home with minimal contact Then their names should be entered into a database and local health officials notified by the CDC so they can be tracked.

Like others have said, no need to freak out...

So registering thousands of citizens in a database and enforcing limits on their activity isn't freaking out? When the Ebola scare was going, there were a couple of voluntary quarantines in the US and everybody was pitching a fit over that.
Zobel
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AG
Total
Cases: 111,648
Deaths: 3,884
Recovered: 62,683

Outside China
Cases: 30,909
Deaths: 764
Recovered: 3943

There's difficulty estimating mortality in the early phases. You under-detect cases overall which skews you to the high end of mortality, and you also have recoveries lagging deaths. One model for a naive immunological outbreak that's supposed to be a bit better is deaths / (deaths + recovered). In China this number started around 40% in early Feb and has now dropped to below 5%. Outside of China that number is around 16% today, and we should expect it to drop from there over time.

Another thing to consider is that of the 45,081 active cases 5980 are considered severe or critical. That's 13%. Outside of China it is 26,202 and 869, or 3.3%.


Long story short: too early to say just about anything coherent about this.
The Collective
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AG
Seems fear has really set in today; more people discussing this than I expected at the office.
Zobel
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AG
S. Korea has been extremely aggressive in testing, so we can feel like they're "seeing the whole field." We haven't been doing enough testing, so even if we're 100% on tracing contacts of confirmed cases there's almost certainly a bunch of unidentified cases out there.
Goose83
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AG
lead said:

Quote:

The idea of relying on other countries to do proper checks is insane. At the very least, everyone coming from overseas should be handed an N95 mask and directed to go straight home with minimal contact Then their names should be entered into a database and local health officials notified by the CDC so they can be tracked.

Like others have said, no need to freak out...

So registering thousands of citizens in a database and enforcing limits on their activity isn't freaking out? When the Ebola scare was going, there were a couple of voluntary quarantines in the US and everybody was pitching a fit over that.

I don't think taking precautions is "freaking out.".

People have already proven (on multiple occasions to date), that they can't be trusted to take this seriously. To allow people to return (basically) unchecked from a country that has 25% of its population on quarantine is insane.
IrishTxAggie
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AG
texagbeliever
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This is why the media should be crucified. They used the uncertainty and secrecy of china to stoke claims of a true pandemic. Then all the worrybodies grasped on to high mortality rates as if there was actually meaningful data available.

Please, when you hear a statistic stop and ask yourself what is the data behind it. If it is crap, then the statistic is crap. More often than not it is crap.
gonemaroon
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AG
He really needs his twitter taken away
Shanked Punt
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St. Patrick's Day festivities are starting to be cancelled. This one is from Cork, Ireland.
The Collective
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AG
I agree with Trump's sentiment, and I wish the media would play this similarly, but I don't think we should discount it either. I think we need to be fully transparent about the facts and why the concerns for this should be greater than common influenza. I think we can get through this without completely wrecking the economy, but denying this will probably be worse than the flu is not the play that makes sense here. I say this as someone who is very much a pragmatist on this whole thing.
Agsrback12
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gonemaroon said:

He really needs his twitter taken away


Keeping a level head and remaining logical in the midst of chicken little.

Twitter is how he has overcome the media. He would have been done long ago in an age without social media.
Cancelled
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AG
This is going to be my last post on this thread for awhile. I'm not intending to grandstand. I do this in an effort to hopefully help others to quit worrying, and hopefully reduce some of the panic. I'll probably make some contradictory statements, but I've got a lot of thoughts and fears running through my head. We had Zika, Ebola, H1N1, bird flu, Sars, Mers and West Nile. Each of those were bad elsewhere in the world. I do not think I've ever seen panic like this. Perhaps it's that social media has caused the world to shrink so much. Every idiot has a voice. Karen and her ilk on facebook with their bottled water, clorox wipes and hand sanitizer are fueling this fire.

January 31, I decided that this might be a bit more serious and I took some steps in preparation. I was really only planning what would happen if we had to be quarantined like in China. How would my family survive as far as food and water go? Now, this thing appears to have gotten worse. On one hand, I want to believe the people saying this is not that serious and doesn't hurt anyone more than the flu. But on the other hand, I don't recall a government response like this to the flu or anything else in my life. I'm hopeful, but there is a little nagging fear in the back of my head that pops up every now and then that questions whether we were getting the truth. I still don't know.

While I have some fears about the virus itself, I am more concerned about the economy. This is the perfect storm with the problems with oil, an artificial stock market and negative interest rates. Our economy is so global now that any amount of panic could cause disaster.

I keep hoping that the numbers in China, South Korea and Italy continue to hold and decrease. This will at least give us a light at the end of the tunnel.

Nevertheless, I cannot continue reading this stuff here, on Facebook or on twitter. I'm going to have to shut this off for awhile and stop following this news. I'm going to read this stuff for about another two hours and then I'm turning off the news and social media - if I am heading to an early death or economic ruin, there's nothing I can do about it. If I need to know something, I'm sure I will find out.

Sending best thoughts to all you Ags.

HelloUncleNateFitch
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gonemaroon said:

He really needs his twitter taken away
Right? We don't want anything to get in the way of the sky falling.
The Collective
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AG
Also, church attendance was pretty down yesterday. I'm not sure if it was time change related or Coronavirus. Anyone else notice #s down at their church. It is going to be hard to get a read on this over next few weeks until spring break has come to a close.
BrokeAssAggie
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Quote:

Nevertheless, I cannot continue reading this stuff here, on Facebook or on twitter. I'm going to have to shut this off for awhile and stop following this news.
Spread this news to your other doomsday friends!!!
Shanked Punt
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texagbeliever said:

This is why the media should be crucified. They used the uncertainty and secrecy of china to stoke claims of a true pandemic. Then all the worrybodies grasped on to high mortality rates as if there was actually meaningful data available.

Please, when you hear a statistic stop and ask yourself what is the data behind it. If it is crap, then the statistic is crap. More often than not it is crap.
China shutting off huge cities effectively locking millions upon millions of people in their own homes shutting down their economy for weeks isn't some story the media dreamed up. It happened. That isn't an action China would take for something no worse than the common flu.

Its perfectly reasonable for others to take that as a cue that something rather bad is going on.
AgFan2015
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k2aggie07 said:

S. Korea has been extremely aggressive in testing, so we can feel like they're "seeing the whole field." We haven't been doing enough testing, so even if we're 100% on tracing contacts of confirmed cases there's almost certainly a bunch of unidentified cases out there.


Testing in an advanced country the size of Ohio with a population of 48MM isn't an impossible task.

Testing a population of 330MM legal and approx 8MM unknown inside borders that stretch for 3000 miles is a challenge.

SK will likely get their issues under control. We got a huge challenge.
MouthBQ98
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AG
Textbook case of a Pareto distribution.

There are always a few selfish dumbasses in a large population that do most of the damage.
The Collective
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AG
Looked up Clorox wipes on Amazon as I'm at my regular ordering interval - not available. WTH people?
ballchain
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Zobel
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AG
Sure. But then look at how many tests S Korea has run vs US.
(removed:110205)
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I Have Spoken said:

Looked up Clorox wipes on Amazon as I'm at my regular ordering interval - not available. WTH people?
Saw a lady at the grocery store yesterday emptying the shelves of Clorox wipes. I'm thinking of setting up next to the girl scouts out front and selling black market wipes.
cisgenderedAggie
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Buy everclear
cone
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AG
you've had quite the heel turn from a month ago

salud
Tanya 93
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I Have Spoken said:

Looked up Clorox wipes on Amazon as I'm at my regular ordering interval - not available. WTH people?
Cut a roll of paper towels in half.
Pull out the tube, soak in rubbing alcohol or everclear, either one mixed with aloe gel, and put in a gallon sized ziploc to keep the towels wet.


Knew moms who made their own wipes using a similar method, just different ingredients.

I just bought them in bulk, on sale, at Target.
CDub06
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AG
I'd find a new doctor.

Also: 100% this was not posted at an actual doctor's office.
The Collective
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AG
Yea, I'm already down the road with other ideas on cleaning stuff - just found it hilarious that they are sold out. Absolute hysteria. Wonder if there is a run on essential oils too right now.
Beat40
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k2aggie07 said:

Total
Cases: 111,648
Deaths: 3,884
Recovered: 62,683

Outside China
Cases: 30,909
Deaths: 764
Recovered: 3943

There's difficulty estimating mortality in the early phases. You under-detect cases overall which skews you to the high end of mortality, and you also have recoveries lagging deaths. One model for a naive immunological outbreak that's supposed to be a bit better is deaths / (deaths + recovered). In China this number started around 40% in early Feb and has now dropped to below 5%. Outside of China that number is around 16% today, and we should expect it to drop from there over time.

Another thing to consider is that of the 45,081 active cases 5980 are considered severe or critical. That's 13%. Outside of China it is 26,202 and 869, or 3.3%.


Long story short: too early to say just about anything coherent about this.
I get it. I'm just saying we report deaths like it's going out of style but don't report that big 62K recovered number you have that I bolded.

All I'm saying is that gives people hope, and I think people should have hope rather than fear while taking things seriously.
Exsurge Domine
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CDub06 said:

I'd find a new doctor.

Also: 100% this was not posted at an actual doctor's office.
cisgenderedAggie
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Beat40 said:

k2aggie07 said:

Total
Cases: 111,648
Deaths: 3,884
Recovered: 62,683

Outside China
Cases: 30,909
Deaths: 764
Recovered: 3943

There's difficulty estimating mortality in the early phases. You under-detect cases overall which skews you to the high end of mortality, and you also have recoveries lagging deaths. One model for a naive immunological outbreak that's supposed to be a bit better is deaths / (deaths + recovered). In China this number started around 40% in early Feb and has now dropped to below 5%. Outside of China that number is around 16% today, and we should expect it to drop from there over time.

Another thing to consider is that of the 45,081 active cases 5980 are considered severe or critical. That's 13%. Outside of China it is 26,202 and 869, or 3.3%.


Long story short: too early to say just about anything coherent about this.
I get it. I'm just saying we report deaths like it's going out of style but don't report that big 62K recovered number you have that I bolded.

All I'm saying is that gives people hope, and I think people should have hope rather than fear while taking things seriously.


There's a sizable portion of that hope that comes with extended hospitalization while recovering from severe respiratory illness. While it's great to know that I'm not at a huge risk for dying, I can think of better things to do with two weeks of not dying.
Beat40
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k2aggie07 said:

S. Korea has been extremely aggressive in testing, so we can feel like they're "seeing the whole field." We haven't been doing enough testing, so even if we're 100% on tracing contacts of confirmed cases there's almost certainly a bunch of unidentified cases out there.
However, what you posted said nothing about aggressive testing. I was responding to that.

I agree the testing has been terrible and plays a major role in our situation. That was messed up really badly. I'm flabbergasted at how bad we failed at that and do think it impacts our situation to this negatively.

I'm also saying you said you look at the cluster in the US and do the opposite if you felt good about how things were going in SK.

I think it's in the middle, man. The way you worded your post was that it's all doom. You or I both cannot say either way.

I am a cautious person by nature, so I lean toward taking the conservative approach on most matters. I think the r value is higher than 1 in America, but, even if we had started testing, we're so early in this in the States that I don't think we'd likely know one way or another at this moment anyway.
FTAG 2000
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AG
k2aggie07 said:

Sure. But then look at how many tests S Korea has run vs US.

South Korea is interesting. They've basically taken the approach of testing anyone who shows up at a doc or ER with a sniffle. So their quantity of testing is incredibly high. What gives me hope with them is that I think we're getting a more representative idea of the spread of the virus and also its complication and mortality rates. There's a lot to be optimistic about with their numbers as they show a CFR of 0.5%.

Here in the U.S. we're apparently limiting testing based on several criteria which seem out of date now we know we have community spread issues. At it's simplest, we should be testing anyone who has all the symptoms but comes back negative for flu. Not sure the reasoning behind that not being the rule everywhere at this point, though I suspect some states are doing it on their own.


The devil is in the details though. Someone with access to more data would do us all a great favor if they could compare South Korea to the U.S. in terms of age ranges, as this seems to be more lethal to the older population.

The wild card and potentially dangerous item is obesity. There are no great stats on this how obesity and the virus combine with respect to leading to more serious or fatal cases. The obesity rate of SK is around 8%. The U.S. is 35%. Japan's at 5%.

For comparison, Italy's around 22% obesity rates are more of an analog for us than South Korea or Japan. But Germany's is around 20%, and they aren't getting their butts kicked like Italy is (Germany has 1/6 the cases of Italy, but zero deaths).

So who the hell knows.
Cromagnum
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AG
Beat40
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cisgenderedAggie said:

Beat40 said:

k2aggie07 said:

Total
Cases: 111,648
Deaths: 3,884
Recovered: 62,683

Outside China
Cases: 30,909
Deaths: 764
Recovered: 3943

There's difficulty estimating mortality in the early phases. You under-detect cases overall which skews you to the high end of mortality, and you also have recoveries lagging deaths. One model for a naive immunological outbreak that's supposed to be a bit better is deaths / (deaths + recovered). In China this number started around 40% in early Feb and has now dropped to below 5%. Outside of China that number is around 16% today, and we should expect it to drop from there over time.

Another thing to consider is that of the 45,081 active cases 5980 are considered severe or critical. That's 13%. Outside of China it is 26,202 and 869, or 3.3%.


Long story short: too early to say just about anything coherent about this.
I get it. I'm just saying we report deaths like it's going out of style but don't report that big 62K recovered number you have that I bolded.

All I'm saying is that gives people hope, and I think people should have hope rather than fear while taking things seriously.


There's a sizable portion of that hope that comes with extended hospitalization while recovering from severe respiratory illness. While it's great to know that I'm not at a huge risk for dying, I can think of better things to do with two weeks of not dying.
Agreed. But better to know people are recovering, no matter the method, than dying. Right?
cisgenderedAggie
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Yes, it's good to know. Not so good to use as an excuse for why it's just over-hype, in my opinion.
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