cisgenderedAggie said:

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kingj3 said:

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Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

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Dogs and cats living together...

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Forgive me, your response went right over my head

k2aggie07 said:

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I don't think that's a real thing. Seems to be just a rumor right now.

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I'm asking because of the reports of people being infected again and again after testing negative.

What if they were never actually negative to begin with?

kingj3 said:

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Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

Rapier108 said:

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kingj3 said:

---

Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

---

Thank you!

Question for the smart people on this thread. I've been reading up on innate vs adaptive immunity. It's clear to me that innate immunity has no memory because the text read "innate immunity retains no memory"... so I read between the lines.

My question is more to verify that I understand correctly. For viruses that induce no innate immunity response (immediate, short lived), that will remain the case for said virus for the person's lifetime... correct? So any immune response will therefore need to be handled by the adaptive immunity side of things, is this correct or am I misunderstanding?

If I'm correct, and the statements I've seen about there being no innate immunity to this coronavirus are correct, that would mean the only thing that would fight this thing is the adaptive immunity response... which takes a long time to "engage" (especially given that this thing is a mutating thing). In contrast, there is innate immunity to the flu virus that can control replication early on... which is why this coronavirus is much worse.

Am I understanding kinda okay or do I need to give up?

That would be fantastic, but I'm having trouble squaring that with other reports. The patient at UC Davis is in severe condition and most of the people in the US are reportedly having a fever for 3+ days. Not sure how you could cure someone in 48 hours. That's shorter than the typical flu duration.

kingj3 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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kingj3 said:

---

Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

---

Thank you!

---

Be very wary of what you read on this thread. Just because it is on Twitter, YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, 4Chan/8Chan, etc. does not make it true. Even a little critical thinking and applying occam's razor goes a long way to sifting the junk from useful information.

Some people go out of their way to find nuclear level doomsday predictions and seem to hope they come true.

JJMt said:

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aggie93 said:

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As a follow on to the above, that reporter followed that tweet with some additional, somewhat reassuring tweets:

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If that is true, it might lead credence to the theory that Asians are far more susceptible to the virus than other groups. Another possibility is the virus is doing what most viruses tend to do, mutate into a less dangerous strain. This is what finally ended the 1918 flu pandemic. Some strains of the flu we still see today are direct descendants of the 1918 version (verified by genetic analysis), but are no more dangerous than any other common ones that are always roaming around.

k2aggie07 said:

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That would be fantastic, but I'm having trouble squaring that with other reports. The patient at UC Davis is in severe condition and most of the people in the US are reportedly having a fever for 3+ days. Not sure how you could cure someone in 48 hours. That's shorter than the typical flu duration.

---

That's because you are looking at a small set of patients vs a larger sample. There are some bad results for sure, they just appear to be the exception and that is especially the case with good medical care in a Western country with an otherwise healthy person. When you take out the initial numbers from China where they were caught off guard, it spread like crazy in a highly populated area with bad sanitation and medical professionals didn't know what they were dealing with it looks more and more controlled and less threatening.

China says they have handled this better than the U.S.A. They handled it BRILLIANTLY. The results are AWESOME...

Quote:

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Some in the party are directing their criticism at the United States, a popular foe, accusing American officials of "slandering" China by focusing on the shortcomings in its response. They have argued that the American political system is not capable of dealing effectively with an outbreak.

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Quote:

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"China has acted as a responsible big country," said an article this week in Global Times. "Nonetheless, due to ideological and political prejudice against China, American elites don't believe China's moves and experience are reliable and helpful."

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Quote:

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"They really don't know how to respond to an ongoing event of this magnitude," he [Xi] said. "There is a lot of inconsistency. And many efforts to gain control of public opinion only throw these problems into sharp relief."

Mr. Xi appears eager to reframe the crisis as a triumph for the party and a vindication of his efforts to strengthen its control over everyday life in China.

He told a teleconference meeting of 170,000 party cadres on Sunday that a recent decline in infections "once again demonstrated the notable advantages of the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the system of socialism with Chinese characteristics."

---

Hard to glean anything from Iran, I'm guessing they don't have a top shelf medical system

aggie93 said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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That would be fantastic, but I'm having trouble squaring that with other reports. The patient at UC Davis is in severe condition and most of the people in the US are reportedly having a fever for 3+ days. Not sure how you could cure someone in 48 hours. That's shorter than the typical flu duration.

---

That's because you are looking at a small set of patients vs a larger sample. There are some bad results for sure, they just appear to be the exception and that is especially the case with good medical care in a Western country with an otherwise healthy person. When you take out the initial numbers from China where they were caught off guard, it spread like crazy in a highly populated area with bad sanitation and medical professionals didn't know what they were dealing with it looks more and more controlled and less threatening.

---

And unless there has been an update I haven't seen, we also don't know the medical history of the person at UC-Davis.

Are they a healthy young person with no medical issues at all? Are they older? Do they smoke? Do they have any underlying medical condition(s) that makes them far more susceptible to the virus? Heck, even their ethnicity might be important given the theory that it is more dangerous to Asians.

Rapier108 said:

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kingj3 said:

---

Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

---

I think it's more likely that the tests still need refinement. i.e., maybe the virus is knocked down, but not out, but to a level that the nose swabs no longer see viral load, but it's still in your system.

The ugly version would be this is like dengue fever, as opposed to HIV. In dengue, you are at risk of a antibody-dependent enhancement the second time around, which causes a more severe and sometimes fatal infection.

Let's hope it's the former for everyone's sake.

Does anyone have the link to the medical/health supplies that were recommended to stock up on?

I don't feel like going back through the previous 100 pages.

aggie93 said:

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k2aggie07 said:

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That would be fantastic, but I'm having trouble squaring that with other reports. The patient at UC Davis is in severe condition and most of the people in the US are reportedly having a fever for 3+ days. Not sure how you could cure someone in 48 hours. That's shorter than the typical flu duration.

---

That's because you are looking at a small set of patients vs a larger sample. There are some bad results for sure, they just appear to be the exception and that is especially the case with good medical care in a Western country with an otherwise healthy person. When you take out the initial numbers from China where they were caught off guard, it spread like crazy in a highly populated area with bad sanitation and medical professionals didn't know what they were dealing with it looks more and more controlled and less threatening.

---

I'm looking at the *JAMA study of 44,000+ test confirmed cases and 72000+ diagnosed cases.

I'm curious what "recovered" means. No further need for hospitalization?

Rapier108 said:

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kingj3 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

kingj3 said:

---

Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

---

Thank you!

---

Be very wary of what you read on this thread. Just because it is on Twitter, YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, 4Chan/8Chan, etc. does not make it true. Even a little critical thinking and applying occam's razor goes a long way to sifting the junk from useful information.

Some people go out of their way to find nuclear level doomsday predictions and seem to hope they come true.

---

Wah-Wrong!

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3052495/coronavirus-far-more-likely-sars-bond-human-cells-scientists-say

Quote:

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Coronavirus far more likely than Sars to bond to human cells due to HIV-like mutation, scientists say

• Research by team from Nankai University shows new virus has mutated gene similar to those found in HIV and Ebola
• Finding may help scientists understand how the infection spreads and where it came from

The new coronavirus has an HIV-like mutation that means its ability to bind with human cells could be up to 1,000 times as strong as the Sars virus, according to new research by scientists in China and Europe.


The discovery could help to explain not only how the infection has spread but also where it came from and how best to fight it.

Scientists showed that Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) entered the human body by binding with a receptor protein called ACE2 on a cell membrane. And some early studies suggested that the new coronavirus, which shares about 80 per cent of the genetic structure of Sars, might follow a similar path.
But the ACE2 protein does not exist in large quantities in healthy people, and this partly helped to limit the scale of the Sars outbreak of 2002-03, in which infected about 8,000 people around the world.

Other highly contagious viruses, including HIV and Ebola, target an enzyme called furin, which works as a protein activator in the human body. Many proteins are inactive or dormant when they are produced and have to be "cut" at specific points to activate their various functions.

When looking at the genome sequence of the new coronavirus, Professor Ruan Jishou and his team at Nankai University in Tianjin found a section of mutated genes that did not exist in Sars, but were similar to those found in HIV and Ebola.


"This finding suggests that 2019-nCoV [the new coronavirus] may be significantly different from the Sars coronavirus in the infection pathway," the scientists said in a paper published this month on Chinaxiv.org, a platform used by the Chinese Academy of Sciences to release scientific research papers before they have been peer-reviewed.

---

The Kicker

Quote:

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"This virus may use the packing mechanisms of other viruses such as HIV."

The virus uses the outreaching spike protein to hook on to the host cell, but normally this protein is inactive. The cleavage site structure's job is to trick the human furin protein, so it will cut and activate the spike protein and cause a "direct fusion" of the viral and cellular membranes.

Compared to the Sars' way of entry, this binding method is "100 to 1,000 times" as efficient, according to the study.

Just two weeks after its release, the paper is already the most viewed ever on Chinarxiv.
In a follow-up study, a research team led by Professor Li Hua from Huazhong University of Science and Technology in Wuhan, Hubei province, confirmed Ruan's findings.

The mutation could not be found in Sars, Mers or Bat-CoVRaTG13, a bat coronavirus that was considered the original source of the new coronavirus with 96 per cent similarity in genes, it said.
This could be "the reason why SARS-CoV-2 is more infectious than other coronaviruses", Li wrote in a paper released on Chinarxiv on Sunday.

Meanwhile, a study by French scientist Etienne Decroly at Aix-Marseille University, which was published in the scientific journal Antiviral Research on February 10, also found a "furin-like cleavage site" that is absent in similar coronaviruses.

---

Lastly,

Quote:

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Chinese researchers said drugs targeting the furin enzyme could have the potential to hinder the virus' replication in the human body. These include "a series of HIV-1 therapeutic drugs such as Indinavir, Tenofovir Alafenamide, Tenofovir Disoproxil and Dolutegravir and hepatitis C therapeutic drugs including Boceprevir and Telaprevir", according to Li's study.


This suggestion is in line with reports by some Chinese doctors who self-administered
HIV drugs after testing positive for the new coronavirus, but there is as yet no clinical evidence to support the theory.

There is also hope that the link to the furin enzyme could shed light on the virus' evolutionary history before it made the jump to humans.

The mutation, which Ruan's team described as an "unexpected insertion", could come from many possible sources such as a coronavirus found in rats or even a species of avian flu.

---

Rapier108 said:

---

kingj3 said:

---

Rapier108 said:

---

kingj3 said:

---

Asking again since more people are trafficking the forum:

Can the more medically knowledgeable give some theories about what this might look like and mean for daily life of the afflicted if this turn out to be similar to HIV in that you can not shake the virus.

---

Right now it is just one of many rumors, often going back to the bioweapon conspiracy theories.

The only commonalities between HIV and the coronavirus are they are both viruses, both can infect humans, and both are RNA type viruses, but on the latter they are different types of RNA viruses.

Some viruses tend to be more resilient and come back, even after apparently recovery. Ebola is notorious for this. There was a British doctor who got Ebola while treating it in Africa. She was medivacted to the UK, treated, and declared Ebola free. She ended up in the hospital two more times when the virus came roaring back.

---

Thank you!

---

Be very wary of what you read from Rapier108 on this thread. Just because Rapier108 says it does not make it true. Even a little critical thinking and applying occam's razor goes a long way to sifting the junk from useful information.

Some people go out of their way to find nuclear level doomsday predictions and seem to hope they come true.

---

FIFY

KorbinDallas said:

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Hard to glean anything from Iran, I'm guessing they don't have a top shelf medical system

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Good thing there's a travel embargo there.

Jesus.

Just listened to the CDC update. The official story is that there are so few cases in the USA because they have done such a great job at restricting travel and keeping infected people out of the country. A couple of callers asked why the CDC has run so few tests and the answer was because there are so few people who met the testing criteria (again because the travel restrictions were so effective).

Whew, I feel a lot better now [eye roll].

UncoverAg00 said:

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Question for the smart people on this thread. I've been reading up on innate vs adaptive immunity. It's clear to me that innate immunity has no memory because the text read "innate immunity retains no memory"... so I read between the lines.

My question is more to verify that I understand correctly. For viruses that induce no innate immunity response (immediate, short lived), that will remain the case for said virus for the person's lifetime... correct? So any immune response will therefore need to be handled by the adaptive immunity side of things, is this correct or am I misunderstanding?

If I'm correct, and the statements I've seen about there being no innate immunity to this coronavirus are correct, that would mean the only thing that would fight this thing is the adaptive immunity response... which takes a long time to "engage" (especially given that this thing is a mutating thing). In contrast, there is innate immunity to the flu virus that can control replication early on... which is why this coronavirus is much worse.

Am I understanding kinda okay or do I need to give up?

---

This is pretty accurate and the reason most medical professionals are only cautiously optimistic about vaccine. Many of our DNA viruses (small pox, chicken pox) we can make a good vaccine and, after a few doses, that immunity sticks. Same goes for many bacteria (Neiserria meningititis, Pneumonococcus, etc). RNA viruses from HIV to common cold virus we have a harder time inducing long term innate immunity thus the body has to use adaptive immunity to beat down the virus. Adaptive immunity is the symptoms of the common cold-- fever, mucus, cough.

This virus, in the elderly or other impaired, seems to stick around and induce secondary bacterial pneumonia that can be lethal. Basically it seems like a more difficult and dangerous common cold especially in > 60 year old or people with bad lung function.

Again- this is based on limited current data.

KorbinDallas said:

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Hard to glean anything from Iran, I'm guessing they don't have a top shelf medical system

---

Their medical system is probably top notch, for the elites.

The rest is probably pretty bad.

Thankfully Iran was already pretty isolated from the world and most countries have closed the borders or suspended flights from there.

AG 2000' said:

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Jesus.

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Only coronavirus causes coughing? Who knew?

This from the guy who claimed the A&M student had the virus and it was being kept secret.

That blade cuts both ways....

Overly optimistic tweets and reports of miracle cures can be just as dangerous.


48 hour recovery for a team of professional soccer players vs 48 hour recovery of nursing home residents are not the same....


Let the data determine the outcome.

Mr.Infectious said:

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That blade cuts both ways....

Overly optimistic tweets and reports of miracle cures can be just as dangerous.


48 hour recovery for a team of professional soccer players vs 48 hour recovery of nursing home residents are not the same....

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Yes it does.

Which is why everything should be looked into beyond the tweet or guy on YouTube.

AG 2000' said:

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Nuclear Scramjet said:

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YellowPot_97 said:

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yukmonkey said:

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Bo Darville said:

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We've seen no proof that this virus is susceptible to warm or humid weather. Not all viruses are.

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How's it doing in the southern hemisphere?

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24 cases in Australia, 15 have recovered, no deaths
1 cases just showed up in Brazil.
Nothing from Southern Africa or elsewhere below the equator.

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Do you honestly expect a bunch of failed states in Africa that treat diseases as if they are curses from witch doctors have any capability of testing for this? Or that any of the corrupt South American countries have any idea what is happening or even care? I'd be amazed if we hear anything until they have tens of thousands dead.

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For all their worldness, there's several African countries who have great systems that responded and locked down ebola.

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Doubt

Rapier108 said:

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This from the guy who claimed the A&M student had the virus and it was being kept secret.

---

Fair enough.

I have never been so happy to be wrong.

That being said, with faulty tests, 4 children that had a wicked sickness that next week, and multiple students in my department from Wuhan...I still don't think they would tell us if a student had it.

Just make them self quarantine.

Good summary by Dr. Campbell,
Touches on transmission, symptoms, reinfection, virus stability

I even tried to get myself and children tested with the doctor that week citing I have students from Wuhan in my lab...

They wouldn't do it because none of them fell into the CDC guidelines.

I still want to be tested, I've had a cold off and on since that week.

Rapier108 said:

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Mr.Infectious said:

---

That blade cuts both ways....

Overly optimistic tweets and reports of miracle cures can be just as dangerous.


48 hour recovery for a team of professional soccer players vs 48 hour recovery of nursing home residents are not the same....

---

Yes it does.

Which is why everything should be looked into beyond the tweet or guy on YouTube.

---

: Italian health authorities just confirmed three more deaths in Lombardy, bringing the national death toll to 21, while the number of confirmed cases rises by nearly 200 to 821.

Check my math...21/821= 0.02557

That's 2.6% fatality rate. That's going to leave a mark even with people recovering in 48 hours....


Seriously someone check my math....I've been up since 2:30 this morning. Did I calculate that right or wrong? My brain is fried.

KorbinDallas said:

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Good summary by Dr. Campbell,
Touches on transmission, symptoms, reinfection, virus stability

---

This guy says the virus is relatively stable making the antibody effectiveness pretty good... possibly preventing reinfection. This sounds greatly different from other sources that claim other more doom and gloom forecasting. Thus, I hope this guy is right... but who knows.

Mr.Infectious said:

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Rapier108 said:

---

Mr.Infectious said:

---

That blade cuts both ways....

Overly optimistic tweets and reports of miracle cures can be just as dangerous.


48 hour recovery for a team of professional soccer players vs 48 hour recovery of nursing home residents are not the same....

---

Yes it does.

Which is why everything should be looked into beyond the tweet or guy on YouTube.

---

: Italian health authorities just confirmed three more deaths in Lombardy, bringing the national death toll to 21, while the number of confirmed cases rises by nearly 200 to 821.

Check my math...21/821= 0.02557

That's 2.6% fatality rate. That's going to leave a mark even with people recovering in 48 hours....


Seriously someone check my math....I've been up since 2:30 this morning. Did I calculate that right or wrong? My brain is fried.

---

I think the fatality rate is difficult to calculate due to it lagging behind the infections. We would need to know how long it takes on average for someone to go from becoming an infected stat to a fatality stat. Then you would have to divide by the number of cases from that many days in the past.