Chances are anything you are getting now would have been made and packaged before all this, plus probably before it would have spread so far.

Emotional Support Cobra said:

---

Chances are anything you are getting now would have been made and packaged before all this, plus probably before it would have spread so far.

---

I wasn't worried about now. I was thinking in 3 months who knows where we are but all the sudden we start getting infected container ships from China? That would be really really bad.

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Lester Freamon said:

---

This may be a dumb question but what sort of danger is present in handling consumer goods imported from China? Has anyone seen anything about survivability on surfaces?

---

For comparison SARS, a coronavirus:

Laboratory studies have shown that the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) coronavirus can survive up to 2 days on plastic surfaces and at least that long in human feces, the World Health Organization (WHO) has announced.

I haven't seen figures for the 2019-nCoV.

---

So if we receive goods shipped on a container from China, assuming the crew of the ship is in good health any viruses would be long gone by the time it gets to the US?

---

I wouldn't want to guess. SARS could survive 4 days in feces under the right conditions.

---

So no clue about a few weeks on a container ship?

---

Probably very small risk.

MERS, another coronavirus, could survive longer than 2 days in humid conditions.

---

None of this is making me feel any better about possibly getting a virus shipped over in goods from China.

---

Same. Personally there's little concern at the moment but could you imagine the havoc and economic destruction this would cause across the world if shipped goods were contagious with/during a 14 day incubating period?!

House two doors down in Montrose is used as an Airbnb or something like that sometimes. Was outside earlier and a group of Chinese people walked past on the sidewalk speaking Chinesethey didn't strike me as Chinese-Americans. Didn't think much of it until about thirty minutes later, a Jeep with Florida plates pulled up, presumably a rental in hindsight, full with another group of people unloading suit cases plastic-wrapped speaking Chinese with masks on.

After reading this thread, I kind of put everything together and thought there's a chance, however small it might be, that the 10-15 people I saw go into that house got out of China and are staying in the US for the foreseeable future.

Could be totally unrelated coincidences, but the gravity of how serious some are taking this kind of hit home seeing a ton of Chinese nationals that very well could've uprooted their life to increase the odds they'd save it.

[url]

[/url]

Tibet is kinda like Alaska... Dependent on imports from rest of China because its pop cannot substain itself.
Will be interesting to see where leads. No industry in Tibet too... However, many resources (minerals).

Necessity is the mother of invention

[url]

[/url]

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Zemira said:

---

VaultingChemist said:

---

Lester Freamon said:

---

This may be a dumb question but what sort of danger is present in handling consumer goods imported from China? Has anyone seen anything about survivability on surfaces?

---

For comparison SARS, a coronavirus:

Laboratory studies have shown that the SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) coronavirus can survive up to 2 days on plastic surfaces and at least that long in human feces, the World Health Organization (WHO) has announced.

I haven't seen figures for the 2019-nCoV.

---

So if we receive goods shipped on a container from China, assuming the crew of the ship is in good health any viruses would be long gone by the time it gets to the US?

---

I wouldn't want to guess. SARS could survive 4 days in feces under the right conditions.

---

So no clue about a few weeks on a container ship?

---

Probably very small risk.

MERS, another coronavirus, could survive longer than 2 days in humid conditions.

---

None of this is making me feel any better about possibly getting a virus shipped over in goods from China.

---

Not sure how true, but I thought I read that it only survives 24 hours without a host. Again, not sure how true.

Viruses don't generally do great on their own.

IAH is just now starting to prepare to be prepared to maybe start screening passengers.

https://abc13.com/5884004

Too little. Too late. nCV fully saturating most geographic areas seems a forgone conclusion to everyone with common sense except for the CDC and government agencies. nCV has a 3 to 14 day incubation period with r0 values I've seen claimed anywhere from 1.6 to 5 and they think they'll catch a meaningful number of infectious passengers at the gate?

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/coronavirus-scare-over-430-under-surveillance-in-kerala-as-wuhan-virus-spreads-outside-china-10-poin-2170806

In India now.

Schu in Mizzou said:

---

IAH is just now starting to prepare to be prepared to maybe start screening passengers.

https://abc13.com/5884004

Too little. Too late. nCV fully saturating most geographic areas seems a forgone conclusion to everyone with common sense except for the CDC and government agencies. nCV has a 3 to 14 day incubation period with r0 values I've seen claimed anywhere from 1.6 to 5 and they think they'll catch a meaningful number of infectious passengers at the gate?

---

What should government agencies have done, and when?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/experts-warn-of-possible-sustained-global-spread-of-new-coronavirus/?utm_medium=social&utm_content=organic&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=SciAm_&sf229029286=1

Quote:

---

Some infectious disease experts are warning that it may no longer be feasible to contain the new coronavirus circulating in China. Failure to stop it there could see the virus spread in a sustained way around the world and even perhaps join the ranks of respiratory viruses that regularly infect people.

---

It may now become a regular annual disease like the flu and other respiratory diseases now since it can't be contained.

Temporarily halted flights from China when it became apparent the r0 and incubation where so high and containment had already failed locally in Wuhan. The whole screening thing doesn't work with the incubation period.

Further, CDC is still only officially saying "be careful traveling to Wuhan", not "don't travel to Wuhan". Level 3 "only essential personnel should travel."

Schu in Mizzou said:

---

Temporarily halted flights from China when it became apparent the r0 and incubation where so high and containment had already failed locally in Wuhan. The whole screening thing doesn't work with the incubation period.

Further, CDC is still only officially saying "be careful traveling to Wuhan", not "don't travel to Wuhan".

---

They just put out a level 3 travel advisory regarding all of China. Hubei is a Level 4. No one is traveling to Wuhan right now. The city is quarantined with the exception of supplies and evacuations of foreigners.

Quote:

---

Reconsider travel to China due to novel coronavirus first identified in Wuhan, China. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory.
A novel (new) coronavirus is causing an outbreak of respiratory illness that began in the city of Wuhan, Hubei Province, China. This outbreak began in early December 2019 and continues to grow. Chinese health officials have reported thousands of cases throughout China.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has issued a Level 3 Warning: Avoid all nonessential travel to China. Chinese authorities are imposing quarantines and restricting travel throughout the country.
Level 4: Do not travel to Hubei province, China due to novel coronavirus first identified in Wuhan, China:
There is an ongoing outbreak of respiratory illness first identified in Wuhan, China, caused by a novel (new) coronavirus. In an effort to contain the novel coronavirus, the Chinese authorities have suspended air and rail travel in the area around Wuhan. On January 23, 2020, the Department of State ordered the departure of all non-emergency U.S. personnel and their family members. The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Hubei province.
Chinese authorities have imposed strict travel restrictions in the area around Wuhan. Travelers should be aware that the Chinese government could prevent them from entering or exiting parts of Hubei province. Travelers should be prepared for travel restrictions to be put into effect with little or no advance notice.
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has issued a Warning Level 3 Alert (Avoid Nonessential Travel) due to an ongoing outbreak of respiratory illness caused by a novel (new) coronavirus that can be spread from person to person.

---

I travel to China 4-6 times/year, so I'm on the state department's advisory email list for China. Can forward the rest of it to anyone that wants to see the whole body.

foleyt said:

---

---

Lots of questions here. When was this meeting? Was the Chinese woman symptomatic at the time?

I'm very interested to know the R0 in a Western country where people wash their hands

Bobcat06 said:

---

foleyt said:

---

---

Lots of questions here. When was this meeting? Was the Chinese woman symptomatic at the time?

I'm very interested to know the R0 in a Western country where people wash their hands

---

Just because we are in a western country does not mean people wash their hands. It happens in the bathroom at work where people will just walk out without stopping for the sink.

In China, NOBODY washes their hands and they may go weeks at a time without bathing. Soap isn't even available in public restrooms.

Western countries may have people who occasionally skip washing their hands but it's still has better hygiene.

So that's asymptomatic transmission

Aggiebrewer said:

---

So just another flu shot?

Can I stop worrying now?

Not being snide. Just curious if we are out of the woods

---

Most figures are saying the virus will kill 3% to 4%. Also, since it is an RNA virus, it can easily mutate to a milder or a more deadly strain.

Roughly a quarter to a third of those infected will need hospitalization, primarily the elderly.

Vaccines probably will not be produced quickly enough to protect the U.S.

This. Flights to and from China should be halted immediately.

I was shocked when I heard the story this morning that they are just now planning to start screening incoming passengers at IAH. Too little too late.

Bobcat-Ag said:

---

Bobcat06 said:

---

foleyt said:

---

---

Lots of questions here. When was this meeting? Was the Chinese woman symptomatic at the time?

I'm very interested to know the R0 in a Western country where people wash their hands

---

Just because we are in a western country does not mean people wash their hands. It happens in the bathroom at work where people will just walk out without stopping for the sink.

---

Shame them!

Did you open a door?

Aggiebrewer said:

---

Point of order:

When I'm in a public restroom for number 1 the only thing I touch is cleaner than anything in the bathroom

---

Graphical update

VaultingChemist said:

---

Aggiebrewer said:

---

So just another flu shot?

Can I stop worrying now?

Not being snide. Just curious if we are out of the woods

---

Most figures are saying the virus will kill 3% to 4%. Also, since it is an RNA virus, it can easily mutate to a milder or a more deadly strain.

Roughly a third to a half of those infected will need hospitalization, primarily the elderly.

Vaccines probably will not be produced quickly enough to protect the U.S.

---

Also you can be reinfected with this one easily. It's not a one and done disease. If you don't improve your living conditions and work to keep yourself away from the infected, you'll get it again.

For countries with bad hygiene and virtually zero health considerations at all this is a nightmare scenario.

Pinche Abogado said:

---

Did you open a door?

---

Did you open a door then touch your netherbits?

Bobcat06 said:

---

foleyt said:

---

---

Lots of questions here. When was this meeting? Was the Chinese woman symptomatic at the time?

I'm very interested to know the R0 in a Western country where people wash their hands

---

Here is the answer by the CDC rep to that question from a reporter yesterday afternoon.

Quote:

---

Dan Vergano: Hi, thanks very much. I wonder if you could say something about the disputes over the weekend about the infectiousness of the disease, the subzero factor. Is there any way this usually plays out or there a stage at which you can definitively say how infectious this disease is?

Dr. Messonnier: I wouldn't say it's a dispute. I would say its scientists from around the world are looking at the available data and trying to analyze it, to come up with information that will be helpful in response. So, different scientists are looking at the data slightly differently and our general interpretation at this point is that the incubation period is somewhere around two to 14 days. I do think, again, it's important that this outbreak is really unrolling in front of our eyes and when will we have a definitive answer it may not be further on into an outbreak. There's some confusion about what this is that folks are talking about, it's called an Arnot. It's a reproductive number of how many infected people come from a single infected person. Several different groups looked at it. Most articles have had interpretation that the Arnot is somewhere 1.5 and 3. That's not a dramatic difference. As a comparison, the Arnot for measles is somewhere around 12 to 18. That's among the most contagious. In general, you want to get an Arnot below one. That's how you get the disease controlled. I'll stop there.

---