I wonder how much of the mortality from SARS and this round of Coronavirus are due to the polluted skies in China causing chronic and/or early pulmonary dysfunction in their older population. Their air quality is pretty awful from what I have seen & read.

Burnsey said:

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I'm buying more ammo for zombies and the the infectious hoard.

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Remember to aim for the head. From watching film, I noticed that most waste too much ammo learning this vital information.

Burnsey said:

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I'm buying more ammo for zombies and the the infectious hoard.

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meh, chainsaw bayonet and you'll be fine.

This doesn't sound like your regular flu virus outbreak.

IrishTxAggie said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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Is it just me or where in the hell did the party's position come into question? Granted, i think i understand what shame means In the Chinese culture, but damn, this statement is not intended to put shame on people as much as ensure the position of the state.
Such rhetoric makes me wonder if they are indeed involved and a bio weapon got out.

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was China testing bio weapons on their own people. To know,how well it's spreads they need their citizens complicity to track the spread

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They would've done that in Northern China in Xinjiang with Uighurs instead of Wuhan.

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maybe they did and it got loose. I don't trust anything the Chinese govt says.

bmks270 said:

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titan said:

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This is rather scary. At least China may be more likely to take the stringent measures possibly necessary to tamp something down.

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What makes it worse than the flu?

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Particularly bad strains of flu can have horrible mortality rates. Look at the Spanish flu for example.

Aggrad08 said:

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bmks270 said:

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titan said:

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This is rather scary. At least China may be more likely to take the stringent measures possibly necessary to tamp something down.

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What makes it worse than the flu?

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Particularly bad strains of flu can have horrible mortality rates. Look at the Spanish flu for example.

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Spanish flu was before modern medicine was widely available. If it pops up again in the modern era it will still be a bad flu but not nearly the same as 1917-1918.

KidDoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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bmks270 said:

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titan said:

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This is rather scary. At least China may be more likely to take the stringent measures possibly necessary to tamp something down.

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What makes it worse than the flu?

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Particularly bad strains of flu can have horrible mortality rates. Look at the Spanish flu for example.

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Spanish flu was before modern medicine was widely available. If it pops up again in the modern era it will still be a bad flu but not nearly the same as 1917-1918.

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Don't count on that. The Spanish flu has been found to have some very unique properties that are not seen in many flu strains, or if they are, it is just one or two, not the right combination to make it highly lethal.

The CDC found the virus preserved in tissue samples, and from the body of a woman buried in permafrost. When it was reconstituted and injected into monkeys, it killed them in the exact same way it did people by triggering a massive overreaction of the immune system. None of the usual medications used to help with the flu were effective in stopping it.

BQ_90 said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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Is it just me or where in the hell did the party's position come into question? Granted, i think i understand what shame means In the Chinese culture, but damn, this statement is not intended to put shame on people as much as ensure the position of the state.
Such rhetoric makes me wonder if they are indeed involved and a bio weapon got out.

---

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was China testing bio weapons on their own people. To know,how well it's spreads they need their citizens complicity to track the spread

---

They would've done that in Northern China in Xinjiang with Uighurs instead of Wuhan.

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maybe they did and it got loose. I don't trust anything the Chinese govt says.

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Really don't think they would have done that. They know how landlocked they are. One thing maybe you can trust China to do is whatever severe measures might become necessary to check it. Don't believe sars does, but there are diseases that rate total quarantine and more drastic measures.

Possible case in Australia. @lookner is covering it now.

They are not going to be able to contain it in some literal way. They have to work on limiting its impact and getting vaccines for it.

Only Draconian shutting down of all air traffic would have some chance of even slowing a spread. That is how it got to Australia--probably not by boat.

Japan is next at risk, and pretty much everyplace. So the approach has to be different and attention placed on learning about the disease and its counters itself.

titan said:

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BQ_90 said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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BQ_90 said:

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Ag In Ok said:

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Is it just me or where in the hell did the party's position come into question? Granted, i think i understand what shame means In the Chinese culture, but damn, this statement is not intended to put shame on people as much as ensure the position of the state.
Such rhetoric makes me wonder if they are indeed involved and a bio weapon got out.

---

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was China testing bio weapons on their own people. To know,how well it's spreads they need their citizens complicity to track the spread

---

They would've done that in Northern China in Xinjiang with Uighurs instead of Wuhan.

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maybe they did and it got loose. I don't trust anything the Chinese govt says.

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Really don't think they would have done that. They know how landlocked they are. One thing maybe you can trust China to do is whatever severe measures might become necessary to check it. Don't believe sars does, but there are diseases that rate total quarantine and more drastic measures.

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Yes. One thing about commies is they aren't bothered by petty notions of individual/human rights, morality, WWJD, etc. Mass killings are not an issue for them, if it is for the greater good of the party.

Pandemics actually rate putting individual rights in back seat. Let's hope this isn't really that for them.

KidDoc said:

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I wonder how much of the mortality from SARS and this round of Coronavirus are due to the polluted skies in China causing chronic and/or early pulmonary dysfunction in their older population. Their air quality is pretty awful from what I have seen & read.

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Air quality and nutrition. Got vitamins? Stay healthy.

1.2 billion people sitting at a dinner table makes it nearly impossible for everybody to "eat healthy". This virus will be contained in the long run but it's interesting to see how governments and the public react.


IMO we won't see another Spanish Flu type pandemic ever, not because the virus will be eliminated but because of the speed of communication, ability to identify, isolate & treat the cause, and the ability to severely restrict travel In the worst case scenario. People will continue to come in contact with deadly viruses but the impacts will be limited.

Of course all bets are off if we have a severe economic downturn (ie Great Depression 2.0)

Reports surfacing that the CDC will be announcing confirmed case in the US

Which would only prove my point. You can't physically contain it -- you have to look into preventive measures and then a counter.

IrishTxAggie said:

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Reports surfacing that the CDC will be announcing confirmed case in the US

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Sauce?

fooz said:

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IrishTxAggie said:

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Reports surfacing that the CDC will be announcing confirmed case in the US

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Sauce?

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Now what will matter a great deal is what happens to that case, if they recover or not.

Mr.Infectious said:

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Quote:

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"Anyone who deliberately delays and hides the reporting of (virus) cases out of his or her own self-interest will be nailed on the pillar of shame for eternity," it added.

The official party edict came straight from President Xi Jinping himself. Xi said on Monday that the virus must be "resolutely contained," and that the Party must make "the safety of people's lives and their physical health" the top priority. It stressed that transparency remained the best defense against rumors and public panic.

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https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/xi-warns-party-officials-anyone-who-covers-coronavirus-will-be-nailed-pillar-shame


Do they sell these pillars at WalMart?

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Not going to dare to google it, but I would be surprised if there isn't already some website selling a "novelty" product called "The Pillar Of Shame".

bmks270 said:

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How do they track these? How do they know 200 people had the exact same strain of a virus?

Maybe another 2000 had it and already got better and never saw a doctor?

What makes this something to be more concerned about than the flu?

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Long answer? Statistical modeling. Short answer? They don't

fooz said:

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I'm sure dozens will be affected by this immigration move.

Rapier108 said:

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KidDoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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bmks270 said:

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titan said:

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This is rather scary. At least China may be more likely to take the stringent measures possibly necessary to tamp something down.

---

What makes it worse than the flu?

---

Particularly bad strains of flu can have horrible mortality rates. Look at the Spanish flu for example.

---

Spanish flu was before modern medicine was widely available. If it pops up again in the modern era it will still be a bad flu but not nearly the same as 1917-1918.

---

Don't count on that. The Spanish flu has been found to have some very unique properties that are not seen in many flu strains, or if they are, it is just one or two, not the right combination to make it highly lethal.

The CDC found the virus preserved in tissue samples, and from the body of a woman buried in permafrost. When it was reconstituted and injected into monkeys, it killed them in the exact same way it did people by triggering a massive overreaction of the immune system. None of the usual medications used to help with the flu were effective in stopping it.

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Disagree:

115PubMedTIAutopsy series of 68 cases dying before and during the 1918 influenza pandemic peak.AUSheng ZM, Chertow DS, Ambroggio X, McCall S, Przygodzki RM, Cunningham RE, Maximova OA, Kash JC, Morens DM, Taubenberger JK SOProc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2011;108(39):16416. Epub 2011 Sep 19.

The 1918 to 1919 "Spanish" influenza pandemic virus killed up to 50 million people. We report here clinical, pathological, bacteriological, and virological findings in 68 fatal American influenza/pneumonia military patients dying between May and October of 1918, a period that includes ~4 mo before the 1918 pandemic was recognized, and 2 mo (September-October 1918) during which it appeared and peaked. The lung tissues of 37 of these cases were positive for influenza viral antigens or viral RNA, including four from the prepandemic period (May-August). The prepandemic and pandemic peak cases were indistinguishable clinically and pathologically. All 68 cases had histological evidence of bacterial pneumonia, and 94% showed abundant bacteria on Gram stain. Sequence analysis of the viral hemagglutinin receptor-binding domain performed on RNA from 13 cases suggested a trend from a more "avian-like" viral receptor specificity with G222 in prepandemic cases to a more "human-like" specificity associated with D222 in pandemic peak cases. Viral antigen distribution in the respiratory tree, however, was not apparently different between prepandemic and pandemic peak cases, or between infections with viruses bearing different receptor-binding polymorphisms. The 1918 pandemic virus was circulating for at least 4 mo in the United States before it was recognized epidemiologically in September 1918. The causes of the unusually high mortality in the 1918 pandemic were not explained by the pathological and virological parameters examined. These findings have important implications for understanding the origins and evolution of pandemic influenza viruses.

Kashchei said:

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"But keep the Mexican border wide open you racists!" /libs

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Actually meme aside, you are hitting something here. A pandemic risk would come under military protocols and the military should close the borders if it gets like that. If you are going to limit something like this everyone has to be examined---by definition an illegal flood is not being examined.

well it is here courtesy of a traveler to Wuhan.

KidDoc said:

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Rapier108 said:

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KidDoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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bmks270 said:

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titan said:

---

This is rather scary. At least China may be more likely to take the stringent measures possibly necessary to tamp something down.

---

What makes it worse than the flu?

---

Particularly bad strains of flu can have horrible mortality rates. Look at the Spanish flu for example.

---

Spanish flu was before modern medicine was widely available. If it pops up again in the modern era it will still be a bad flu but not nearly the same as 1917-1918.

---

Don't count on that. The Spanish flu has been found to have some very unique properties that are not seen in many flu strains, or if they are, it is just one or two, not the right combination to make it highly lethal.

The CDC found the virus preserved in tissue samples, and from the body of a woman buried in permafrost. When it was reconstituted and injected into monkeys, it killed them in the exact same way it did people by triggering a massive overreaction of the immune system. None of the usual medications used to help with the flu were effective in stopping it.

---

Disagree:

115PubMedTIAutopsy series of 68 cases dying before and during the 1918 influenza pandemic peak.AUSheng ZM, Chertow DS, Ambroggio X, McCall S, Przygodzki RM, Cunningham RE, Maximova OA, Kash JC, Morens DM, Taubenberger JK SOProc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 2011;108(39):16416. Epub 2011 Sep 19.

The 1918 to 1919 "Spanish" influenza pandemic virus killed up to 50 million people. We report here clinical, pathological, bacteriological, and virological findings in 68 fatal American influenza/pneumonia military patients dying between May and October of 1918, a period that includes ~4 mo before the 1918 pandemic was recognized, and 2 mo (September-October 1918) during which it appeared and peaked. The lung tissues of 37 of these cases were positive for influenza viral antigens or viral RNA, including four from the prepandemic period (May-August). The prepandemic and pandemic peak cases were indistinguishable clinically and pathologically. All 68 cases had histological evidence of bacterial pneumonia, and 94% showed abundant bacteria on Gram stain. Sequence analysis of the viral hemagglutinin receptor-binding domain performed on RNA from 13 cases suggested a trend from a more "avian-like" viral receptor specificity with G222 in prepandemic cases to a more "human-like" specificity associated with D222 in pandemic peak cases. Viral antigen distribution in the respiratory tree, however, was not apparently different between prepandemic and pandemic peak cases, or between infections with viruses bearing different receptor-binding polymorphisms. The 1918 pandemic virus was circulating for at least 4 mo in the United States before it was recognized epidemiologically in September 1918. The causes of the unusually high mortality in the 1918 pandemic were not explained by the pathological and virological parameters examined. These findings have important implications for understanding the origins and evolution of pandemic influenza viruses.

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There are gravestones with my family name on them that have the date of death within a 3 month period in 1918, 4 of them are 3 children and their mother.

Seems like a good time to post this oldie but goodie.

That's nothing special honestly.

DifferenceMaker Ag said:

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If China is reporting 139 cases, then you better believe that the real number is closer to 10,000 plus.

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Which means the mortality ratio is overblown too