AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

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This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

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Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

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If they drop impeachment then trumps approval goes to 75%, they are too deep in the lie now. Their best hope is to move forward and fool enough morons in swing states to help with local/congress/senate elections.

I think this a Hail Mary because they know the election is already lost. This is literally the only way they can get rid of him. If they truly thought they had him and Pence by the balls, they would have waited until a month into his next term and then impeached him and the VP and gotten 3.5 years of Madam President Pelosi or the HRC fantasy.

Rapier108 said:

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Dark_Knight said:

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They do understand that Pence would become President if they manage to pull off this farce. I would think they'd hate Pence more.

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They've already said they would then impeach Pence as well so Pelosi would become President.

Then she appoints Hillary VP and resigns.

Yes, this is their ultimate fantasy.

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Pence's VP would become President.

blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

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Can you imagine having to try and prep either biden for a deposition?

redcrayon said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Dark_Knight said:

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They do understand that Pence would become President if they manage to pull off this farce. I would think they'd hate Pence more.

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They've already said they would then impeach Pence as well so Pelosi would become President.

Then she appoints Hillary VP and resigns.

Yes, this is their ultimate fantasy.

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Pence's VP would become President.

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They would never approve his selection. It requires approval from the House and Senate to select a new VP.

If they proceed with impeachment then I believe the Chief Justice becomes the presiding judge in the Senate.

Does the presiding judge have the authority to prevent witnesses called by either side from testifying?

Can the presiding judge object to testimony during the trial?

One can't stay awake and the other is amped on cocaine. It would be comical to have to handle both.

gig em 02 said:

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blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

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Can you imagine having to try and prep either biden for a deposition?

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Damn it Hunter, wipe off your nose and stop texting that ****ing stripper and pay attention to what I'm telling you.

The Cronyists are doing this to save their grip on power in the Dem Party before the inevitable Communist Branch takeover

No impeachment means an absolute divide in the Dem party that will have ramifications for years afterward

Alan Dershowitz weighs in:

Quote:

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There is a fierce debate today among scholarly experts as to what are the required criteria under the Constitution for impeaching and removing a president. The words of the Constitution, "treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors," are fixed and not subject to dispute. The proper interpretation of these words are very much in dispute. However, there should be no dispute that certain views of these criteria, which are currently being proposed, are demonstrably and provably wrong.

Let us begin with Democratic Representative Maxine Waters of California, who has denied there are any required criteria. "Impeachment is whatever Congress says it is. There is no law," she said. This ahistorical and lawless view confuses what Congress might just be able to get away with, in the absence of judicial review of its actions, with what Congress is required to do by the Constitution. Members of Congress take an oath to uphold the Constitution. The view of Waters, if voted on by a member of Congress, would violate that oath. It also would put Congress above the law, and indeed above the supreme law of the land, which is the Constitution.

Few reputable scholars accept the view of Waters and those who do probably would not if their favored president were being impeached based on "no law." A president who would be subject to a vote for his impeachment and removal based on "no law," but rather on a simple partisan vote, would be well within his power under the Constitution to refuse to accept such a lawless vote and to demand judicial review.

To be sure, the Constitution provides that the House and Senate are the "sole" judges of impeachment and removal, but the same Constitution also requires the legislative branch to apply the criteria set out by the Framers. Thus, refusing to apply these criteria would be equivalent to refusing to allow the chief justice of the Supreme Court to preside at the impeachment trial of a president, as required by the Constitution, or refusing to require a two-thirds vote for removal. Any such defiance of the specific words of the Constitution would be lawless and unconstitutional, even if Congress were to get away with it because it is the "sole" judge.

Another view that is demonstrably wrong is the one that says criteria in the Constitution cannot be ignored but can be interpreted to include criteria such as "maladministration," "malpractice," or other open terms suggestive of abuse of office. The fatal problem with this view is that it was explicitly proposed and definitively rejected at the Constitutional Convention. James Madison opposed such vague criteria over fear that they would turn the republic into something of a British parliamentary system in which Congress could remove a president over merely political differences with, effectively, a vote of no confidence. That, Madison said, would be the "equivalent to tenure during pleasure of the Senate."

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More here

One of the riskiest political moves in the last 40 years. Interestingly, I would consider Trump running for office to also be in the top 2-3 political risks in that timeframe.

When you look at the mood on this in political polling. Let's take Civiqs daily tracking for instance.

Trump still polls 90%+ with Republicans on Job Approval
Trump still polls above 50 with the 50+ voters.
Majority of 50+ voters still oppose impeachment.

Why are these three indicators important for Trump?

Because the states that Trump flipped from Dems to get to 30 states in the EC have some of the highest average age populations in the country. And they are your most reliable likely voters.

And when it comes to GOTV efforts, 90%+ approval in your party base is like wind at your back.

So this is my conclusion. The only possible way the Dems think this can work in their favor is:

1) Secret GOP Senator Support(We all know the ones, yes they still fall short of votes needed, but they get to claim bi-partisan "high ground")
2) High belief that they can GOTV among the young and win back PA, WI, and MI. And potentially flip an increasingly competitive state like North Carolina.
3) Belief that economy will turn down soon enough to impact the election.


With old people opposed. Independents split 50/50, and over 90% approval for Trump and opposition to impeachment among GOP rank and file, the DNC is holding one Ace after the turn and going all in just with the hope that an ace shows up on the river and they can squeeze out a win with a pair of aces.

It's high drama to be sure.

In this whole house of cards, should this go to the Senate for trial, is anyone immune from testifying? Can anyone ignore a Senate subpoena?

Can Biden, or Schiff, or EC simply refuse to testify?

blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

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I think the plan is to keep this in the news as close to the election as possible and, secondly, use this as a reason to keep Trump from naming Ginsburg's replacement befor ethe election.

FireAg said:

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In this whole house of cards, should this go to the Senate for trial, is anyone immune from testifying? Can anyone ignore a Senate subpoena?

Can Biden, or Schiff, or EC simply refuse to testify?

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Doubt it. Since you have all three branches involved including the Supreme Court. So I am pretty sure their subpoenas are actually enforceable unlike the demand letters that the House has been sending out.

FireAg said:

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In this whole house of cards, should this go to the Senate for trial, is anyone immune from testifying? Can anyone ignore a Senate subpoena?

Can Biden, or Schiff, or EC simply refuse to testify?

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They can, and then we would see if the DOJ is going to enforce the penalty, and I think they would in those cases. Subpoena means 'under penalty' and Congress has long relied on the DOJ to enforce the penalty.

AgStuckinLBK said:

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gig em 02 said:

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blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

---

Can you imagine having to try and prep either biden for a deposition?

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Damn it Hunter, wipe off your nose and stop texting that ****ing stripper and pay attention to what I'm telling you.

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Hunter will take the 5th, is my prediction.

chimmy said:

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FireAg said:

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In this whole house of cards, should this go to the Senate for trial, is anyone immune from testifying? Can anyone ignore a Senate subpoena?

Can Biden, or Schiff, or EC simply refuse to testify?

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They can, and then we would see if the DOJ is going to enforce the penalty, and I think they would in those cases. Subpoena means 'under penalty' and Congress has long relied on the DOJ to enforce the penalty.

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So they could be held in contempt and jailed?

aggiehawg said:

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AgStuckinLBK said:

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gig em 02 said:

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blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

---

Can you imagine having to try and prep either biden for a deposition?

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Damn it Hunter, wipe off your nose and stop texting that ****ing stripper and pay attention to what I'm telling you.

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Hunter will take the 5th, is my prediction.

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So would Schiff, his staffer, and EC...

aggiehawg said:

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AgStuckinLBK said:

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gig em 02 said:

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blindey said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

Your post makes me wonder how many times Trump has been deposed in his life or appeared as a witness at trial. It has to be at least 10 and likely closer to 50 times. Giving a deposition or appearing as a witness isn't exactly a Swedish massage but people with a lot of experience acquire more skill with each appearance.

So the angle of trump stepping on his own dick is a low-probability outcome. And that's if he even bothers to take the stand in the first place, which, given the fact that poking through the democrats "case" will be about as difficult as poking through a thin layer of meringue, he simply might not bother.

---

Can you imagine having to try and prep either biden for a deposition?

---

Damn it Hunter, wipe off your nose and stop texting that ****ing stripper and pay attention to what I'm telling you.

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Hunter will take the 5th, is my prediction.

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Would it make more sense to go ahead and open a separate official investigation into the Biden's?

She's still screaming about Russia, Russia, Russia.

Poor Nancy has been lied to for 3 yrs and still can't let go. I really think she believes it.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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So would Schiff, his staffer, and EC...

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Ciaramella is CIA. He'll lose his job if he takes the 5th.

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...then take a raise at CNN

Quote:

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Would it make more sense to go ahead and open a separate official investigation into the Biden's?

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Biden's taped confession should have been enough to open at least an assessment investigation by the FBI, in my view.

With Rudy over in Ukraine right name getting taped interviews with the former PGOs Shokin, Kuluyt (sp?) and the loony Lutsenko who you never can tell whether he is lying or not, the evidence pertinent to such an assessment is being adduced.

With Biden running for President, Barr will tread with an abundance of caution.

AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

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I think that this is the Democratic play book.

Clinton never really recovered from "I did not have sexual relations* with that woman." [*sexual relations as defined by my lawyers], and "It depends on what your definition of is, is".

They are looking for that one moment of Trump testimony to play over and over again on twitter. They might not get that moment, but they might. At this point, what do they have to lose? Without that soundbite, they are lost.

Trump just might give it to them if he is not careful, and he is never very careful.

It's a bold strategy with a huge cost if it doesn't work, but I think it is their only hope.

FireAg said:

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In this whole house of cards, should this go to the Senate for trial, is anyone immune from testifying? Can anyone ignore a Senate subpoena?

Can Biden, or Schiff, or EC simply refuse to testify?

---

Chief Justice Roberts is going to preside over any Senate trial. If Roberts asks you to come testify, and you ignore him, that provides plenty of cover for Trump to send some US Marshals to go get you.

But then what is the D counter effort? You know they must have considered this, right?

Do they bite the bullet and sit in prison as martyrs thinking this will generate enough support from Americans to vote Trump out in November?

I can't think of any other strategy if no one is immune to a trial...

BusterAg said:

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AggieRain said:

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Quote:

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In all seriousness, how politically inept do you have to be to run a purely partisan political stunt only to hand it off to a chamber your party doesn't control for massive exposure?

---

This is the part that I just can't figure. Despite what this board thinks, there are many intelligent operatives among their ranks. I don't see how they can conclude that this is a winning hand. My guess is that, in reading the tea leaves, this is a Hail Mary attempt. Perhaps they think Trump will hang himself under examination, which is really their best hope.

---

I think that this is the Democratic play book.

Clinton never really recovered from "I did not have sexual relations* with that woman." [*sexual relations as defined by my lawyers], and "It depends on what your definition of is, is".

They are looking for that one moment of Trump testimony to play over and over again on twitter. They might not get that moment, but they might. At this point, what do they have to lose? Without that soundbite, they are lost.

Trump just might give it to them if he is not careful, and he is never very careful.

It's a bold strategy with a huge cost if it doesn't work, but I think it is their only hope.

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Clinton left office with high approval ratings. He took a temporary ding the polls, but that was it.

Very good thread by Brian Cates(@drawandstrike) on the impeachment sham.

Ubitag said:

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I think the democrats know exactly what they are doing.

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They do.

aggiehawg said:

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MetoliusAg said:

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Ubitag said:

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I think the democrats know exactly what they are doing.

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They do.

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Which is what, exactly?

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They definitely know they are raising money for Trump

Troutslime said:

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Would it make more sense to go ahead and open a separate official investigation into the Biden's?

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No. The question is whether Trump acted in self interest when he threatened to withhold Ukrainian funding.

Hypothetical: If Trump had said "build a Trump Tower hotel in downtown Kyiv, or I will withhold funding," I would also be among the people calling for Trump's head.

But he didn't. He asked for help to root out corruption. The question on whether there was credible evidence of substantial corruption linking the US and Ukraine is paramount to this trial. If Trump had a reason to suspect that the relationships between the Biden's and Ukraine companies was unethical, then Trump's actions are 100% justifiable, because he is acting on behalf of the US people, not on his own behalf.