Mueller dismisses top FBI agent in Russia probe for anti-Trump texts

7,762,832 Views | 49423 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by will25u
will25u
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VegasAg86
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aggiehawg said:

will25u said:

Just so you notice, there is a month gap between the first text and the second.
That is curious. There is a "close hold matter" in late June 2016 that involves Laycock and Strzok.

A month later, late July 2016, shortly before Crossfire Hurricane is opened by Strzok, there is the discussion of the DNC emails being released by wikileaks and a reference to "our guys"???
So, Roger Stone was convicted of lying about a crime "our guys" actually committed?

It's so frustrating that so much of this hasn't been and, perhaps, now will never be, made public.
pacecar02
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just so we are clear, are you saying this happened under the self proclaimed most transparent and scandal free presidency in our history?
VegasAg86
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pacecar02 said:

just so we are clear, are you saying this happened under the self proclaimed most transparent and scandal free presidency in our history?
Not even a smidgen of corruption there. Just don't look at China, or Ukraine, or the FBI or the CIA, or the Justice Department or anywhere else. In fact, keep your eyes closed and you won't see any corruption at all.
pacecar02
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NSFW
SeMgCo87
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pacecar02 said:

just so we are clear, are you saying this happened under the self proclaimed most transparent and scandal free presidency in our history?
Not a smidgen...
will25u
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Aggie Jurist
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If Sullivan were the sentencing judge, he'd give Klinesmith a commendation, and lifetime annuity, and a job.
LGB
will25u
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aggiehawg
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Granted, I didn't do much criminal work but I have never heard of letters to the judge on a sentencing issue could be redacted.

That's just weird as hell.
Whitetail
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Tailgate88
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Quote:

Untitled Goose Game[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Untitled_Goose_Game#cite_note-1][a][/url] is a 2019 puzzle stealth video game developed by Australian developer House House and published by Panic. In the game, players control a goose who bothers the inhabitants of an English village. The player must use the goose's abilities to manipulate objects and non-player characters in order to complete specific objectives and progress through the game. It was released for Microsoft Windows, macOS, Nintendo Switch, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One.
Ok. Well in that case, dismiss the case. I mean, he introduced a dude to the Untitled Goose Game after all, must be a freaking saint.
fasthorse05
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aggiehawg said:

Granted, I didn't do much criminal work but I have never heard of letters to the judge on a sentencing issue could be redacted.

That's just weird as hell.
Hawg, you've had a nice career as an attorney over many years. Since the beginning of this thread, how many times have you said something similar to "That's just weird as hell"? I just thought about that, and realized that there have been so may strange, awkward, never heard of tactics and actions by judges and your brethren attorneys, that you almost seem to be continually amazed.

That, as much as anything, cements my view of our judiciary in America.
Hate is how progressives sustain themselves. Without hate, introspection begins to slip into the progressive's consciousness, threatening the progressive with the truth: that their ideas and opinions are illogical, hypocritical, dangerous, and asinine.
This is backed by data.
will25u
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Woah.

aggiehawg
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Quote:

As a licensed attorney and an officer of the Court, the defendant took an oath, was bound by professional and ethical obligations, and should have been well-aware of this duty of candor ... His deceptive conduct ... was antithetical to the duty of candor and eroded the FISC's confidence in the accuracy of all previous FISA applications worked on by the defendant," Durham wrote on Thursday, adding, "The defendant's conduct also undermined the integrity of the FISA process and struck at the very core of what the FISC fundamentally relies on in reviewing FISA applications."

Durham, who used the title of "special counsel" in the filing, pointed out that Clinesmith's deception "fueled public distrust of the FBI and of the entire FISA program itself." The special counsel argued the court's sentence "should send a message that people like the defendant an attorney in a position of trust who others relied upon will face serious consequences if they commit crimes that result in material misstatements or omissions to a court."

"The government respectfully submits that a sentence of incarceration that is at least between the middle and upper end of the applicable Sentencing Guidelines range is appropriate and warranted," Durham said. "This case is outside the heartland of typical cases under 18 U.S.C. 1001 [false statements], and such a sentence would reflect the seriousness of the offense."
Quote:

Durham said that "to the extent the defendant argues that he has already been punished due to loss of employment and his possible disbarment due to this felony conviction, these circumstances should not mitigate his sentence" because "these collateral consequences are entirely the result of his own wrongdoing."
LINK

At least Durham wants him in jail.
RulesForTheeNotForMe
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aggiehawg said:

Quote:

As a licensed attorney and an officer of the Court, the defendant took an oath, was bound by professional and ethical obligations, and should have been well-aware of this duty of candor ... His deceptive conduct ... was antithetical to the duty of candor and eroded the FISC's confidence in the accuracy of all previous FISA applications worked on by the defendant," Durham wrote on Thursday, adding, "The defendant's conduct also undermined the integrity of the FISA process and struck at the very core of what the FISC fundamentally relies on in reviewing FISA applications."

Durham, who used the title of "special counsel" in the filing, pointed out that Clinesmith's deception "fueled public distrust of the FBI and of the entire FISA program itself." The special counsel argued the court's sentence "should send a message that people like the defendant an attorney in a position of trust who others relied upon will face serious consequences if they commit crimes that result in material misstatements or omissions to a court."

"The government respectfully submits that a sentence of incarceration that is at least between the middle and upper end of the applicable Sentencing Guidelines range is appropriate and warranted," Durham said. "This case is outside the heartland of typical cases under 18 U.S.C. 1001 [false statements], and such a sentence would reflect the seriousness of the offense."
Quote:

Durham said that "to the extent the defendant argues that he has already been punished due to loss of employment and his possible disbarment due to this felony conviction, these circumstances should not mitigate his sentence" because "these collateral consequences are entirely the result of his own wrongdoing."
LINK

At least Durham wants him in jail.
Bring the pain Durham.

People like this should have their lives ruined (financially & professionally). He was actively trying to ruin someone's life with his actions and he is only remorseful because he got caught. He had years to come forward and "right his wrong", but he stayed silent and therefore allowed the fraud to continue. His prison sentence at a bare minimum should be the length of time from the "date of the email edit" to "the date this edit was found"... The entire time between these two dates.... He had the opportunity to blow the whistle on himself.

This guy should not be able to qualify for anything more than bagging groceries point forward.
OldArmyBrent
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will25u said:




Dumb question from a non-attorney: if someone writes a letter saying that you were still having a full personal life with bachelor parties and Taylor Swift madness brackets after your guilty plea, doesn't that go against your argument that your life is in shambles because of the guilty plea? Doesn't that letter make it sound like you thought the guilty plea would get you out of trouble?
aggiehawg
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FWIW.

Quote:

Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe says he shared thousands of documents with U.S. Attorney John Durham and is counting on the now-special counsel to get the truth out to the public about what he views to be massive wrongdoing by those who conducted the Trump-Russia investigation. But, the spy chief stressed, that doesn't mean all the documents given to the federal prosecutor should be declassified, as some Republicans, including President Trump, have discussed.

"Between my predecessor Richard Grenell in an acting capacity and myself, we have declassified most of the intelligence community documents that would be suitable for the public to see, that wouldn't jeopardize sources and methods," Ratcliffe said in a phone interview with the Washington Examiner on Thursday. "There are others, many many documents I think it's been out there that I've provided literally thousands of documents to John Durham, but many of those do contain sources and methods that we can't make public for a number of reasons, including to jeopardize any investigation that's going there. So I think the level of cooperation I've given them everything that they've asked for."
LINK
pacecar02
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I guess we should start all post in here with WTF
Quote:

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton said his colleague Emmet Sullivan could find that "the wording of the pardon is too broad, in that it provides protections beyond the date of the pardon."


https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2020/12/04/judge-questions-whether-trumps-pardon-of-michael-flynn-is-too-broad/?slreturn=20201104120619
The Catalyst
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pacecar02 said:

I guess we should start all post in here with WTF
Quote:

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton said his colleague Emmet Sullivan could find that "the wording of the pardon is too broad, in that it provides protections beyond the date of the pardon."


https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2020/12/04/judge-questions-whether-trumps-pardon-of-michael-flynn-is-too-broad/?slreturn=20201104120619
I feel at this point that judge emmet sullivan can **** right off.
How bout you go back down the hill and get it then?
aggiehawg
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The Catalyst said:

pacecar02 said:

I guess we should start all post in here with WTF
Quote:

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton said his colleague Emmet Sullivan could find that "the wording of the pardon is too broad, in that it provides protections beyond the date of the pardon."


https://www.law.com/nationallawjournal/2020/12/04/judge-questions-whether-trumps-pardon-of-michael-flynn-is-too-broad/?slreturn=20201104120619
I feel at this point that judge emmet sullivan can **** right off.


Quote:

A trial judge raised the possibility that another federal judge overseeing Michael Flynn's case could find that President Donald Trump's pardon of Flynn is too broad, if it unlawfully protects the former national security adviser from future prosecutions.

U.S. District Judge Reggie Walton said at a hearing Friday that he doesn't think U.S. District Judge Emmet Sullivan, his colleague presiding over the Flynn case, "has a lot of options in reference to what he does" after the pardon was granted, "unless he takes the position that the wording of the pardon is too broad, in that it provides protections beyond the date of the pardon."

"I don't know what impact that would have, what decision he would make, if he makes that determination that the pardon of Mr. Flynn is for a period that the law does not permit. I don't know if that's correct or not," the judge continued. "Theoretically, the decision could be reached because the wording in the pardon seems to be very, very broad. It could be construed, I think, as extending protections against criminal prosecutions after the date the pardon was issued."

Quote:

"I don't know if Judge Sullivan will make that determination or not," Walton added.

Walton made the comments in a public records case over FBI interviews from former Special Counsel Robert Mueller III's investigation. CNN and BuzzFeed News, represented by Ballard Spahr's Charles Tobin at Friday's hearing, want the records from Flynn's FBI interviews to be reprocessed in light of the pardon, revealing information that was initially shielded due to an exemption tied to ongoing prosecutions
LINK

The decorum of one judge in a totally unrelated hearing opining about a case in another judge's court is beyond the bounds. Both Sullivan and Walton are off their rockers.
VegasAg86
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aggiehawg said:

" unlawfully protects the former national security adviser from future prosecutions."


The decorum of one judge in a totally unrelated hearing opining about a case in another judge's court is beyond the bounds. Both Sullivan and Walton are off their rockers.
Isn't this fool just making **** up? The pardon of Nixon prevented a future prosecution. The only restriction on the pardon power is "except in cases of impeachment". (Art II, Sec. II, Clause 1, US Const.)


Quote:

"Ex Parte Garland". LII / Legal Information Institute. Retrieved February 6, 2017. The power thus conferred is unlimited, with the exception stated. It extends to every offence known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency or after conviction and judgment." (emphasis added)
Wikipedia, footnote 12
BMX Bandit
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Walton was talking about it because BuzzFeed wants the department of justice to go back and unredact things in the Flynn 302 that no longer need to be redacted because the "investigation is over". If Sullivan does something screwy with the pardon, which really wouldn't surprise anyone at this point, Then justice can't unredact or release those additional documents yet. Apparently there will be 20,000 pages of additional documents forthcoming
BMX Bandit
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I think he meant for crimes in the future, because otherwise what he said doesn't make any sense at all. But who knows
VegasAg86
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BMX Bandit said:

Walton was talking about it because BuzzFeed wants the department of justice to go back and unredact things in the Flynn 302 that no longer need to be redacted because the "investigation is over". If Sullivan does something screwy with the pardon, which really wouldn't surprise anyone at this point, Then justice can't unredact or release those additional documents yet. Apparently there will be 20,000 pages of additional documents forthcoming
lol, no doubt. The pardon was 2 weeks ago. The Motion to Dismiss because of the pardon was a week ago (+ a couple days on each, I believe), yet no dismissal yet. We know he can act quickly when it satisfies him.
BMX Bandit
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My guess is that Sullivan is trying to get Flynn to file something saying he wants to use the pardon
aggiehawg
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BMX Bandit said:

Walton was talking about it because BuzzFeed wants the department of justice to go back and unredact things in the Flynn 302 that no longer need to be redacted because the "investigation is over". If Sullivan does something screwy with the pardon, which really wouldn't surprise anyone at this point, Then justice can't unredact or release those additional documents yet. Apparently there will be 20,000 pages of additional documents forthcoming
Which investigation? Mueller? Flynn? Makes no sense to me.
pagerman @ work
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BMX Bandit said:

My guess is that Sullivan is trying to get Flynn to file something saying he wants to use the pardon
Clearly not a lawyer, but I find it fascinating that even after a pardon is issued a motion to dismiss because of the pardon has to be filed and presented to the court.

I get the judge convening court, reading the order into the record and then issuing the dismissal per the pardon if you have to provide some official end to the case for the record.

But having to ask the court to dismiss the case per the pardon seems backwards. The defendant was pardoned. There isn't really anything to discuss or decide.

More of a "Here's why I'm not going to be here any more. It's been real."
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
BMX Bandit
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A defendant does not have to accept a pardon in the case. He could decide he wants an adjudication he or she is not guilty on the merits

That's why it has to be put in the record & case dismissed on that basis. Usually, if prosecutor filed motion to dismiss for pardon (or any basis) thats enough. But we already know that's not the case here
FJB
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I think the judges need to be held accountable. Using the system to be a tyrant from the bench sullies the whole institution.
richardag
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SexyAg said:

I think the judges need to be held accountable. Using the system to be a tyrant from the bench sullies the whole institution.
The resulting damage caused by these people in the judiciary, FBI, DOJ, CIA, State Department, Congress and others has a very large and growing percentage of the US population having very little to no respect for our government.

This is dangerous and seems to be one of the goals of the perpetrators.

edit for clarity
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
pagerman @ work
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richardag said:

SexyAg said:

I think the judges need to be held accountable. Using the system to be a tyrant from the bench sullies the whole institution.
The resulting damage caused by these people in the judiciary, FBI, DOJ, CIA, State Department, Congress and others has a very large and growing percentage of the US population having very little to no respect for our government.

This is dangerous and seems to be one of the goals of the perpetrators.

edit for clarity

Honestly, I think a lack of respect is one thing, but worse (to my way of thinking, at least) is the lack of respect coupled with a growing fear/ concern over its power and what is done with that power.

I've believed that the federal government is grossly incompetent for practically my entire adult life. Incompetence (i.e. can't deliver the mail, bloated bureaucracy that is utterly unresponsive to the people they allegedly serve) and the resulting disrespect is one thing. But when you see the government's willingness (enthusiasm?) to do things like the prosecution of Gen. Flynn for purely political reasons, that becomes something entirely different, and to my mind much more dangerous.
“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. It's inherent virtue is the equal sharing of miseries." - Winston Churchill
will25u
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will25u
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will25u
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