drcrinum said:

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I doubt even the combination of a purge with many indictments/people sent to jail + a landslide victory in 2020 would cure the problem in the long term. The basic underlying issue lies in a loss of ethics & morality among a large portion of our population. This cannot be corrected/overcome in a short period of time as it involves not only a restructuring of societal norms & values but also a revamping of our entire educational system. A religious reformation could/would be the answer, but based upon human history, that likely isn't going to happen without the 'shock & awe' of a major upheaval such as another world war, a civil war or an international calamity.

But perhaps I am too much of a pessimist.

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Sadly, I agree with you completely, and I'm NOT a pessimist. The ideologies that have led us to this situation are deeply ingrained in a large portion of the population, as evidenced by Twitter and the TDS thread for example, and won't be easily overcome. A total revamping of the media and the education system, and a large amount of time, will be required to even BEGIN to make such changes.

It ain't gonna happen in my lifetime, and probably not my kids' lifetime either.

I agree as well. But, possibly, Trump can get us by for another generation. Similar to what the Reagan presidency did.

K188Ag said:

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I agree as well. But, possibly, Trump can get us by for another generation. Similar to what the Reagan presidency did.

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From your keyboard to God's eyes......

https://nationalfile.com/john-bolton-took-six-figures-from-ukrainian-oligarch-clinton-foundation-donor/

Hmmm.... Victor Pinchuk, Hillary's buddy and mega-donor to the Clinton Foundation. Ukraine must own half the politicians and Swamp in DC.

Oh Bolty! You some 'splaining to do.

drcrinum said:

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https://nationalfile.com/john-bolton-took-six-figures-from-ukrainian-oligarch-clinton-foundation-donor/

Hmmm.... Victor Pinchuk, Hillary's buddy and mega-donor to the Clinton Foundation. Ukraine must own half the politicians and Swamp in DC.

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From the Article...this is the bigger deal to me

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At the former speech in Kiev, Bolton sat on a panel and basically expressed that the national security establishment would not allow Trump to become unconventional on policy, stating, "The notion that [Trump's presidency] is going to represent a dramatic break in foreign policy is just wrong. Calm down, for God's sake

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No wonder Trump got rid of him.

Don't know if it is of any consequence, but Bolton was supposedly in Qatar last week.

Can you say FARA? Sure you can.

That's why trump hired him, to out/expose him.

In Horowitz's Report, there are only circa 20 Footnotes that are significantly redacted. Most of the latter relate either to Steele, his Primary sub-source & sub-sources or Oligarch 1. Fn #253/pg 116 is unusual -- it lists summaries of 7 reports given by Steele to Handler 1 (Gaeta) -- 3 of these report summaries are entirely redacted including their identifying numbers. Why? I suspect because these 3 reports were never published by BuzzFeed & are entirely unknown to the public & perhaps even to Congress. Regardless, this is very mysterious. What if these reports provided 'intel' on either Flynn or Papadopoulos? Then there are 2 Footnotes that specifically relate to Mifsud, Fn #164/pg 51 & #484/pg 351. The redacted portions appear (my best guess) to be an inquiry made to other government agencies (CIA, DOD, etc,) asking if Mifsud had an existing relationship. If so, Grassley would want to know this...so would we.

Sara Carter (and another guy who's name I missed) were just on Laura's show and said that every one of these attempts to take down Trump, from Russia, Russia, Russia (both before and after the election) and the current attempt, all go straight through one person, Eric Ciaramella.

drcrinum said:

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In Horowitz's Report, there are only circa 20 Footnotes that are significantly redacted. Most of the latter relate either to Steele, his Primary sub-source & sub-sources or Oligarch 1. Fn #253/pg 116 is unusual -- it lists summaries of 7 reports given by Steele to Handler 1 (Gaeta) -- 3 of these report summaries are entirely redacted including their identifying numbers. Why? I suspect because these 3 reports were never published by BuzzFeed & are entirely unknown to the public & perhaps even to Congress. Regardless, this is very mysterious. What if these reports provided 'intel' on either Flynn or Papadopoulos? Then there are 2 Footnotes that specifically relate to Mifsud, Fn #164/pg 51 & #484/pg 351. The redacted portions appear (my best guess) to be an inquiry made to other government agencies (CIA, DOD, etc,) asking if Mifsud had an existing relationship. If so, Grassley would want to know this...so would we.

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Looks like he does know and wants it declassified so we can see it.

drcrinum said:

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In Horowitz's Report, there are only circa 20 Footnotes that are significantly redacted. Most of the latter relate either to Steele, his Primary sub-source & sub-sources or Oligarch 1. Fn #253/pg 116 is unusual -- it lists summaries of 7 reports given by Steele to Handler 1 (Gaeta) -- 3 of these report summaries are entirely redacted including their identifying numbers. Why? I suspect because these 3 reports were never published by BuzzFeed & are entirely unknown to the public & perhaps even to Congress. Regardless, this is very mysterious. What if these reports provided 'intel' on either Flynn or Papadopoulos? Then there are 2 Footnotes that specifically relate to Mifsud, Fn #164/pg 51 & #484/pg 351. The redacted portions appear (my best guess) to be an inquiry made to other government agencies (CIA, DOD, etc,) asking if Mifsud had an existing relationship. If so, Grassley would want to know this...so would we.

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Your second point seems the most likely area in which the IG report was misleading without context

https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/28/ig-report-proves-obama-administration-spied-on-trump-campaign-big-time/

Professor Cleveland has read Horowitz's Report in entirety, & she has put together this piece going into details showing that the spying on the Trump Campaign was far more than what is generally perceived, especially regarding the use of CHS & undercover agents. Good read.

Techno_Fog is just starting a thread on Flynn's new motion. I haven't yet found a source linking the motion, but one should be posted soon.

https://www.scribd.com/document/444788398/US-v-Flynn-Supp-Mtn-to-Withdraw-plea

Here's the link to the full motion.

https://www.scribd.com/document/444788722/US-v-Flynn-Motion-to-Withdraw-due-to-Govt-Misconduct

Separate Flynn motion on Government misconduct.

Making a claim of ineffective counsel and then filing said motion nearly an hour late takes some serious chutzpah.

https://www.usatoday.com/documents/6745304-Reply-to-non-motion-Document/

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...As set forth below, the government maintains that a sentence within the Guidelines range to include a sentence of probation would be appropriate and warranted in this case....

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Previously they wanted jail time...now they are offering probation. Methinks the prosecution doesn't want to go to trial now.

I'm sure this has been brought up in the last 50 pages, but reading Professor Cleveland's article about the FISA tools available to the FBI, I thought of the Republican break-in by G. Gordon Liddy.

The reason Liddy broke in to the Dem headquarters was to gather information. Wasn't that basically what the FBI was ultimately doing? They were gathering information to find out if Trump's campaign was in cahoots with Russia, but also ended up likely gathering plenty of campaign information.

It certainly appears that the FBI, at the behest of the Clinton campaign, gathered information on the opposition, and did it illegally. From what I can tell, Liddy wasn't very stealthy, and sucked at his break-in. The FBI was able to supposedly gather the exact same information, in their eyes, legally, and much better than Liddy.

Have y'all recognized this? At it's very core, this seems to be very similar to Liddy's theft, except their appears to be 100 to 200 willing Dem acolytes in government, and probably 50 to 100 elected Dem politicians who aided and abetted this newer, slicker, modern day Liddy operation.

They've always recommended a sentence within the range of 0-6 months. The original sentencing memo recommended 0-6 months. The government in their December 2018 motion recommended a sentence toward the lower end of the range. Their December 2019 motion recommended 0-6 months, the same as this most recent motion. Probation has never been off the table.
Bringing up all of the previous high-level people that got probation is likely to make Sullivan mad, but not in Flynn's favor.

Powell filed additional documents in separate filings which I cannot access -- I don't have an account with Pacer. However, people I follow are posting some of them. Here are several, the first one possibly being big.

So this looks like Flynn's original 302 may be tied up in a pending criminal case over editing the 302. Maybe this is part of the reason McCabe has yet to be indicted. I just wish there was more information available to be more certain about what's actually going on.

Then there is this threadreader below which expands on some of the other new documents. Seems there were Never Trumpers in the background at Covington & Burling pulling tricks with Flynn's filings.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1222680446720520193.html

https://dailycaller.com/2020/01/29/michael-flynn-regret-guilty-plea/

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1222711263559548930.html

(The threadreader conains new material excerpts not in the article.)

More of the new Flynn material. No doubt in my mind the prosecution was dirty, & Flynn's lawyers were devious.

Bravo ms Hawg. I was wondering the exact same thing.

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More of the new Flynn material. No doubt in my mind the prosecution was dirty, & Flynn's lawyers were devious.

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Have any of y'all ever started to post a response to anyone, or any comment, on this thread, knowing that it really doesn't bring anything to the conversation?

I only bring this up because of my immediate thoughts, which tend to be "Hell yes, they're devious, are you blind", or "f'in A", or "I hope BVG acquires a skin eating amoeba"! I can't begin to tell y'all how often I stop my runaway fingers on the keyboard, knowing that I'll likely regret it in a couple of hours, because the comments only come from emotion.

That is all!

lol, guess I'm not the only one thinking this. He seems to spend a lot of energy arguing against Flynn at every opportunity.

Why do I have the suspicion this person worked for Wiessman, maybe as a junior lawyer on Enron?

Just realized Michael Chertoff of Covington in the e-mail was Bush's DHS 2005-2009.

Rapier108 said:

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Sara Carter (and another guy who's name I missed) were just on Laura's show and said that every one of these attempts to take down Trump, from Russia, Russia, Russia (both before and after the election) and the current attempt, all go straight through one person, Eric Ciaramella.

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And he is the puppet of who................ John Brennan?

RGLAG85 said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Sara Carter (and another guy who's name I missed) were just on Laura's show and said that every one of these attempts to take down Trump, from Russia, Russia, Russia (both before and after the election) and the current attempt, all go straight through one person, Eric Ciaramella.

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And he is the puppet of who................ John Brennan?

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Why can't this be grounds for the Senate to call him as witness, IF they do get witnesses? How can they let this weasel continue to do all this from 100% partisan position. Remember the Nov 2016 White House "surrender" photo? Its like having Jarrett considered unbiased.

But it looks like they will not have to fool with witnesses at all, which is possibly best. But if they do, they got to get this guy named and grilled on questions.