Did Flynn's lawyers get a payoff to sell their client up the river?

The fact that Flynn was set up from the beginning and it was completely railroaded does not change the veracity of what H-TownAg98 posted

Flynn got a raw deal from the moment the FBI just wanted to "chat". But it does appear that the strategy of bringing in Powell is more likely to hurt him than to help.

But I think most people expect a pardon shortly after sentencing, so it really won't matter either way.

Yes, is that justice, ultimately? There are times when the law and justice are different things.

I meant it doesn't matter in terms of his ultimate fate

aggiehawg said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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They've always recommended a sentence within the range of 0-6 months. The original sentencing memo recommended 0-6 months. The government in their December 2018 motion recommended a sentence toward the lower end of the range. Their December 2019 motion recommended 0-6 months, the same as this most recent motion. Probation has never been off the table.
Bringing up all of the previous high-level people that got probation is likely to make Sullivan mad, but not in Flynn's favor.

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Can I ask you exactly why you hate Flynn so much that you support his being railroaded?

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I've repeatedly said I have nothing against Flynn. In fact, I agree with everyone here that he was railroaded and targeted by the FBI, because he's one of the few within Trump's inner circle that possesses any kind of honor or ethics. The FBI went after him because they knew if he was caught in a lie, he'd roll over, and they were right. It doesn't make it right, but that's how it goes when you talk to the FBI, especially without an attorney present. I don't care if they'd invited him to a Redskins tailgate party and was just chatting with some agents about the weather. Never, ever talk to law enforcement period. If you decide you have to talk, don't do it without an attorney with you.
My beef is with everyone here that thought Flynn was going to somehow walk away from this scot-free because Sullivan put in his own Brady order and yelled at a bunch of attorneys, or the FBI may have done some unrelated things wrong, or that Flynn has his own "dream team" defending him now that is flooding the court with terrible redundant motions. It's almost to the level of conspiratorial nonsense, and it doesn't change that fact that Flynn pleaded guilty, twice.
Flynn's prior attorneys did a good job with the hand they were dealt. Everything was pointing to him getting probation; Powell has likely managed to have Flynn walking out of a door at the courthouse he'd rather not walk through. That's the real injustice here.

I completely disagree with the "You always need a lawyer" takes

If he had known he was being investigated and set up, he probably brings a lawyer. (Don't know if he'd have changed what he said)

But this interview was from one government employee to one coming in. Do you think anytime the FBI calls someone in the executive branch with questions, they get a lawyer? (They don't)

If they were asking me about stuff I was personally involved in, I'd be asking questions of them before I start giving answers.
The Flynn saga was sketchy at best, criminal at worst. But I don't see anyone in Congress trying to do any oversight or get the regs changed into how the FBI does things. Maybe with all this 302 chicanery going on, they will, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

MouthBQ98 said:

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Yes, is that justice, ultimately? There are times when the law and justice are different things.

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Sad state if affairs in my opinion.

HTownAg98 said:

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My beef is with everyone here that thought Flynn was going to somehow walk away from this scot-free because Sullivan put in his own Brady order and yelled at a bunch of attorneys, or the FBI may have done some unrelated things wrong, or that Flynn has his own "dream team" defending him now that is flooding the court with terrible redundant motions. It's almost to the level of conspiratorial nonsense, and it doesn't change that fact that Flynn pleaded guilty, twice.

Powell has likely managed to have Flynn walking out of a door at the courthouse he'd rather not walk through. That's the real injustice here.

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Yeah I am starting to think Sydney Powell has done Flynn more harm than good. Has any of her motions and filings made any difference in Flynn's case? And this judge Sullivan that most people thought was going to throw the book at the FBI and dismiss the charges has done nothing of the sort. Meanwhile Flynn's attorney is all over the airwaves and Twitterverse. It is starting to look like it is a PR effort for her and not her client.

And meanwhile Flynn is basically where he was at before Powell became his attorney.

And I know I am being overly harsh, but really, what has improved for Flynn since he changed lawyers?

ETA: And before the inevitable straw dog attack, I too think Flynn has been railroaded.

BMX Bandit said:

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I completely disagree with the "You always need a lawyer" takes

If he had known he was being investigated and set up, he probably brings a lawyer. (Don't know if he'd have changed what he said)

But this interview was from one government employee to one coming in. Do you think anytime the FBI calls someone in the executive branch with questions, they get a lawyer? (They don't)

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Not entirely accurate. When the FBI wants to speak with a member of the White House staff, they go through the White House Counsel's office, further the request normally goes through DOJ to White House Counsel. Both Comey and McCabe have acknowledged that they knew they were violating normal protocol and taking advantage of a new administration not quite organized yet.

When McCabe told Flynn he didn't need a lawyer, he was referring to White House Counsel being notified.

I would disagree with saying that Flynn is worse off. Powell has made it abundantly clear to even some of the skeptics hear in F16 and many more nation wide that Flynn was shafted. Thus the pardon will be palatable for many more than it would have been had he just took it.

Also, he now has more ammo in his civil suit with the old lawyers.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-trump-aide-carter-page-files-suit-against-dnc-over-dossier-this-is-only-the-first-salvo

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Former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page filed a lawsuit Thursday in federal court against the Democratic National Committee, law firm Perkins Coie and its partners tied to the funding of the unverified dossier that served as the basis for highly controversial surveillance warrants against him.

The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in the Northern District of Illinois' Eastern Division Thursday morning, and was described by his attorneys as the "first of multiple actions in the wake of historic" Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) abuse.

"This is a first step to ensure that the full extent of the FISA abuse that has occurred during the last few years is exposed and remedied," attorney John Pierce said Thursday. "Defendants and those they worked with inside the federal government did not and will not succeed in making America a surveillance state."

He added: "This is only the first salvo. We will follow the evidence wherever it leads, no matter how high. The rule of law will prevail."

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https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/30/whats-inside-the-latest-court-filings-in-michael-flynns-case/

Margot Cleveland's analysis of the new Flynn filing.

Stressboy said:

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I would disagree with saying that Flynn is worse off. Powell has made it abundantly clear to even some of the skeptics hear in F16 and many more nation wide that Flynn was shafted. Thus the pardon will be palatable for many more than it would have been had he just took it.

Also, he now has more ammo in his civil suit with the old lawyers.

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It is highly unlikely he would sue his former attorneys. The bar for incompetent counsel is really, really high, and you'd have to prove that he would have been much better off with his current attorneys.

And he just puts this out there NOW? AT LEAST 3 years later? Sheesh.

will25u said:

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https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ex-trump-aide-carter-page-files-suit-against-dnc-over-dossier-this-is-only-the-first-salvo

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Former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page filed a lawsuit Thursday in federal court against the Democratic National Committee, law firm Perkins Coie and its partners tied to the funding of the unverified dossier that served as the basis for highly controversial surveillance warrants against him.

The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in the Northern District of Illinois' Eastern Division Thursday morning, and was described by his attorneys as the "first of multiple actions in the wake of historic" Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) abuse.

"This is a first step to ensure that the full extent of the FISA abuse that has occurred during the last few years is exposed and remedied," attorney John Pierce said Thursday. "Defendants and those they worked with inside the federal government did not and will not succeed in making America a surveillance state."

He added: "This is only the first salvo. We will follow the evidence wherever it leads, no matter how high. The rule of law will prevail."

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Well, Page has legal representation for this case, instead of filing on his own behalf. I gather Pierce Bainbridge is a sizable tort outfit & wouldn't take his case unless they smelled $$$...or perhaps they just want the high-profile public exposure. It's the same outfit that is handling Tulsi Gabbard's defamation suit against Hillary.

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Well, Page has legal representation for this case, instead of filing on his own behalf. I gather Pierce Bainbridge is a sizable tort outfit & wouldn't take his case unless they smelled $$$...or perhaps they just want the high-profile public exposure. It's the same outfit that is handling Tulsi Gabbard's defamation suit against Hillary.

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Seems I predicted Page would be swamped with attorneys offering to represent him on a contingency fee basis after the renewals were declared illegal.

ETA: Discovery for Perkins, Cooie should be fun.

HTownAg98 said:

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Stressboy said:

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I would disagree with saying that Flynn is worse off. Powell has made it abundantly clear to even some of the skeptics hear in F16 and many more nation wide that Flynn was shafted. Thus the pardon will be palatable for many more than it would have been had he just took it.

Also, he now has more ammo in his civil suit with the old lawyers.

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It is highly unlikely he would sue his former attorneys. The bar for incompetent counsel is really, really high, and you'd have to prove that he would have been much better off with his current attorneys.

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If Sullivan accepts Flynn's withdrawal of his guilty plea & the case proceeds to trial, Covington & Burling would become major fact witnesses. That would really expose the latter to tort liability as they would be compelled to testify, no? Did you read Professor Cleveland's synopsis above?

drcrinum said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Stressboy said:

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I would disagree with saying that Flynn is worse off. Powell has made it abundantly clear to even some of the skeptics hear in F16 and many more nation wide that Flynn was shafted. Thus the pardon will be palatable for many more than it would have been had he just took it.

Also, he now has more ammo in his civil suit with the old lawyers.

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It is highly unlikely he would sue his former attorneys. The bar for incompetent counsel is really, really high, and you'd have to prove that he would have been much better off with his current attorneys.

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If Sullivan accepts Flynn's withdrawal of his guilty plea & the case proceeds to trial, Covington & Burling would become major fact witnesses. That would really expose the latter to tort liability as they would be compelled to testify, no? Did you read Professor Cleveland's synopsis above?

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Do you think that the DOJ would still pursue Flynn if he is granted his motion to change his plea?

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Well, Page has legal representation for this case, instead of filing on his own behalf. I gather Pierce Bainbridge is a sizable tort outfit & wouldn't take his case unless they smelled $$$...or perhaps they just want the high-profile public exposure. It's the same outfit that is handling Tulsi Gabbard's defamation suit against Hillary.

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Seems I predicted Page would be swamped with attorneys offering to represent him on a contingency fee basis after the renewals were declared illegal.

ETA: Discovery for Perkins, Cooie should be fun.

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Perkins, Coie would give up half the firm before they try that case, don't you think?

will25u said:

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drcrinum said:

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HTownAg98 said:

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Stressboy said:

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I would disagree with saying that Flynn is worse off. Powell has made it abundantly clear to even some of the skeptics hear in F16 and many more nation wide that Flynn was shafted. Thus the pardon will be palatable for many more than it would have been had he just took it.

Also, he now has more ammo in his civil suit with the old lawyers.

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It is highly unlikely he would sue his former attorneys. The bar for incompetent counsel is really, really high, and you'd have to prove that he would have been much better off with his current attorneys.

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If Sullivan accepts Flynn's withdrawal of his guilty plea & the case proceeds to trial, Covington & Burling would become major fact witnesses. That would really expose the latter to tort liability as they would be compelled to testify, no? Did you read Professor Cleveland's synopsis above?

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Do you think that the DOJ would still pursue Flynn if he is granted his motion to change his plea?

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Jessie Liu & Van Grack (+ fellow Muellerites) say 'Hi'. Besides, if the DOJ were to back down, the Dems & the MSM would have a field day claiming that Barr & Trump obstructed justice. In an Election year, the latter would be poor optics.

Quote:

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Jessie Liu & Van Grack (+ fellow Muellerites) say 'Hi'. Besides, if the DOJ were to back down, the Dems & the MSM would have a field day claiming that Barr & Trump obstructed justice. In an Election year, the latter would be poor optics.

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Jessie will be gone as soon as the impeachment mess is over and McConnell gets the confirmation train running again. She is awaiting her confirmation hearing to a post at Treasury.

If anyone is interested in knowing what the conflict was with Flynn and his lawyers. This person does a good job laying it out.

Sacrificed some prison time to get the story out about how incredibly corrupt the entire process has been and being to light and put on record the bad actors, and help clear the way for a justified pardon and possibly retributive legal action.

Flynn may be losing the battle to win the war over his reputation and increasing odds of bringing those who screwed him over to justice.

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.ilnd.373050/gov.uscourts.ilnd.373050.1.0.pdf

Carter Page's lawsuit document.

will25u said:

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And he just puts this out there NOW? AT LEAST 3 years later? Sheesh.

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Yeah I call B.S.

https://wtop.com/local/2020/01/ap-exclusive-barr-names-new-u-s-attorney-in-dc/

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Attorney General William Barr on Thursday named Timothy Shea, one of his closest advisers, to be the next top prosecutor in the nation's capital.

Shea will lead the largest United States attorney's office in the country, which has been historically responsible for some of the most significant and politically sensitive cases the Justice Department brings in the U.S.

He is a senior counselor to the attorney general and was Barr's right-hand man helping institute reforms at the federal Bureau of Prisons after Jeffrey Epstein's death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City.

As the U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia, Shea would oversee some of the lingering cases from special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation, along with a number of politically charged investigations. The office is also generally responsible for handling potential prosecutions if Congress finds a witness in contempt......

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Bye, bye, Jessie.

It really is fantastic news.

Democrats are blinded by impeachment while the administration continues to make moves.

drcrinum said:

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https://wtop.com/local/2020/01/ap-exclusive-barr-names-new-u-s-attorney-in-dc/

Quote:

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Attorney General William Barr on Thursday named Timothy Shea, one of his closest advisers, to be the next top prosecutor in the nation's capital.

Shea will lead the largest United States attorney's office in the country, which has been historically responsible for some of the most significant and politically sensitive cases the Justice Department brings in the U.S.

He is a senior counselor to the attorney general and was Barr's right-hand man helping institute reforms at the federal Bureau of Prisons after Jeffrey Epstein's death at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City.

As the U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia, Shea would oversee some of the lingering cases from special counsel Robert Mueller's Russia investigation, along with a number of politically charged investigations. The office is also generally responsible for handling potential prosecutions if Congress finds a witness in contempt......

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Bye, bye, Jessie.

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About time Barr got around to cleaning up the mess in Aisle 2.

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About time Barr got around to cleaning up the mess in Aisle 2.

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Aisle 2 ???

Aisle 2 is usually Frozen Food, Bakery or Produce. The really messy stuff happens in Aisle 4...you know, where Ketchup bottles are knocked off rounds, or bottled juice gets dropped.

But not Aisle 2. Trust me... a head of lettuce rolling off the display just bounces and rolls down the aisle.

Cleaning out ideologues and putting in competent administrators.