Quote:

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Another dumb question (on my part), but is it possible RR never actually granted Mueller the so called authority and he's simply gone rogue? Yes, I'm implying that Mr. Rosenstein is the spineless weasel his image portrays and too cowardly to rein in the SC?

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No. The August 2 memo puts Rosenstein right in the middle of the mess, a mess he created in the first place with his appointment letter.

Either RR or Sessions is the "insurance", but I'm not sure they could have known that at the time.

They tried to do it again, but in the Information Age it leaves paper trails.

Amazing though who was Mueller's point man until he was outed with his girlfriend? The head "Counterintelligence" agent in the FBI

So next question:

Now that Judge Elliot has told Mueller that he will take a look at the memo in camera and then tell them what he thinks, do you think Mueller and his team have the minerals (or are desperate enough) to try to mandamus Elliot?

If yes, how do you think that will go over?

Pedesta has the goods on a lot of Dems that they don't want to give him reason to trade for his own leniency, so they won't go after him of course.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Amazing though who was Mueller's point man until he was outed with his girlfriend? The head "Counterintelligence" agent in the FBI

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This hybrid of counter-intel/criminal investigation is fraught with peril. Using Title I FISA warrants and 702 queries without the subject's knowledge for a criminal prosecution has truly horrific 4th Amendment implications.

blindey said:

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So next question:

Now that Judge Elliot has told Mueller that he will take a look at the memo in camera and then tell them what he thinks, do you think Mueller and his team have the minerals (or are desperate enough) to try to mandamus Elliot?

If yes, how do you think that will go over?

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That's interesting, but would they have to go to the 4th with that?

They keep sliding back and forth between criminal and counterintelligence means and standards at their convenience and someone needs to step in and slap all their hands hard and stop that BS garbage.

aggiehawg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Amazing though who was Mueller's point man until he was outed with his girlfriend? The head "Counterintelligence" agent in the FBI

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This hybrid of counter-intel/criminal investigation is fraught with peril. Using Title I FISA warrants and 702 queries without the subject's knowledge for a criminal prosecution has truly horrific 4th Amendment implications.

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Textbook offensive counterintelligence.

Quote:

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Literally from the textbook definition Offensive counterintelligence is having identified an opponent's efforts against the system, trying to manipulate these attacks by either "turning" the opponent's agents into double agents or feeding them false information to report.

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And in this case they have weaponized the media, Mockingbird style

blindey said:

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So next question:

Now that Judge Elliot has told Mueller that he will take a look at the memo in camera and then tell them what he thinks, do you think Mueller and his team have the minerals (or are desperate enough) to try to mandamus Elliot?

If yes, how do you think that will go over?

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I would be amazed if Mueller went that direction. The arguments as presented today have muddied the water and not to Mueller's benefit.

To argue mandamus here, Mueller would have to argue the counter-intelligence (national security) part in a criminal prosecution. Huge red flag as to how Mueller has been obtaining his evidence of alleged crimes. Raises a 4th Amendment issue.

Dreeben did Mueller no favors today.

MouthBQ98 said:

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They keep sliding back and forth between criminal and counterintelligence means and standards at their convenience and someone needs to step in and slap all their hands hard and stop that BS garbage.

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Precisely. Mueller's appointment was ill-conceived from the get-go. Counter-intel should have never been within his mandate. The hacking of the DNC computers should have been because that's an actual crime (if it happened at all.)

aggiehawg said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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They keep sliding back and forth between criminal and counterintelligence means and standards at their convenience and someone needs to step in and slap all their hands hard and stop that BS garbage.

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Precisely. Mueller's appointment was ill-conceived from the get-go. Counter-intel should have never been within his mandate. The hacking of the DNC computers should have been because that's an actual crime (if it happened at all.)

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Why don't we hear anything about that?

Supposedly this whole charade is to investigate Russian interference, and supposedly that is one of the most tangible instances of Russian interference - yet the investigation never touches it?

We all know why, the answer is clearly that it never happened and that the Russian narrative is a construct to justify a witch hunt on POTUS.

It just amazes me that people who insist that the special counsel is legitimate gloss over the logical inconsistencies in the facts of what are occurring.


ETA: the "that" to which I am referring is the hack of the DNC

I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve. As suggested in the article linked a few pages back, the circumstantial evidence sure seems to suggest that at least a substantial part of the impetus for the clarification memo was to provide retroactive cover for the Manafort raid that had already taken place and was outside the purview of the May order. If that's the case, they had to know at some point the August memo would be provided to some authority (Congress or the Court in future prosecutions if any) to demonstrate investigative jurisdiction. It should have been written with that in mind. You certainly wouldn't want to include anything in the memo that might later undermine that very purpose.

The only thing I can come up with is that something has since been revealed that blows a hole in the predicate that the memo relied on, and its release is now more damning than it is supportive.

Quote:

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The only thing I can come up with is that something has since been revealed that blows a hole in the predicate that the memo relied on, and its release is now more damning than it is supportive.

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I think Rosenstein and Mueller had their worlds rocked when IG Horowitz came calling about Strzok and Page. The IG got Page's texts on July 20th. So he would have passed those on to Mueller sometime after that. The memo was dated August 2, 2017 and likely was a knee jerk reaction of a sort.

One that in hindsight was precisely the wrong move to make and it is coming back to bite them, potentially.

Geezus I needed a good laugh

TxLawDawg said:

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I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve..

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You know it has to be bad because what they were trying to do today: they were trying to keep an Article III judge from reviewing the memo in unredacted form in camera (as in the judge was the only person that was going to look).

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You know what gets you nuclear war...weakness. Weakness gets you nuclear war.

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1000% correct.

blindey said:

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TxLawDawg said:

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I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve..

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You know it has to be bad because what they were trying to do today: they were trying to keep an Article III judge from reviewing the memo in unredacted form in camera (as in the judge was the only person that was going to look).

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Kinda like your kids hiding the report card from you.

akm91 said:

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blindey said:

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TxLawDawg said:

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I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve..

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You know it has to be bad because what they were trying to do today: they were trying to keep an Article III judge from reviewing the memo in unredacted form in camera (as in the judge was the only person that was going to look).

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Kinda like your kids hiding the report card from you.

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Great analogy.

I suspect the August memo revealed that there was a counterintelligence investigation into the Trump Campaign coveting Russian assistance during the election. In other words, it acknowledged there was a FISA warrant or warrants in play, and intelligence/evidence was being gathered, implying there was suspicion such activity had occurred.

I'm eaiting lunch and damn near spit out my food when I heard him say it live

blindey said:

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akm91 said:

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blindey said:

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TxLawDawg said:

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I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve..

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You know it has to be bad because what they were trying to do today: they were trying to keep an Article III judge from reviewing the memo in unredacted form in camera (as in the judge was the only person that was going to look).

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Kinda like your kids hiding the report card from you.

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Great analogy.

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I tried that once. It didn't end well.

Tailgate88 said:

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blindey said:

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akm91 said:

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blindey said:

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TxLawDawg said:

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I'm also curious what could be in the August memo that's so clandestine that Mueller, Rosenstein, et al would go to these lengths to preserve..

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You know it has to be bad because what they were trying to do today: they were trying to keep an Article III judge from reviewing the memo in unredacted form in camera (as in the judge was the only person that was going to look).

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Kinda like your kids hiding the report card from you.

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Great analogy.

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I tried that once. It didn't end well.

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Let's just say that something other than a belt was used when I pulled that stunt. I've shared my experience with my kids and they now know better.

Oh I want this guy to burn as well

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Point is he has no ties to Manafort or Page. I'd bet money he never spoke to them. And he walks into a Special Counsel interview and they have every thing he'd done, talked about on the phone, texted, whatever. And he was gone from the campaign but maintained contacts with associates in the Trump Administration.

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Maybe this has been posted somewhere on this thread or the couple of others that are related. If so, I apologize:

Basically they used the Carter Page FISA to two-hop everyone in the Trump campaign.

Interesting way to spy on a political campaign.

Meanwhile, Carter Page has never been charged with anything and has talked to anyone and everyone that will listen. Which means:

1) Carter Page is likely innocent.
2) If not it means:
a) He is an idiot for talking so freely if he is guilty. Since he is an Annapolis grad, I doubt he is an idiot.
b) He has some sort of deal with Mueller, but I would think Mueller wouldn't let him talk so freely if that were the case.

I am no lawyer, but I would bet the FBI has known for some time that Page is innocent and just kept using the FISA warrant to spy on Trump'c campaign and administration.

Quote:

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"and just kept using the FISA warrant to spy on Trump'c campaign and administration."

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pretty much

that plus the only factual data, I think, in the numerous paid for dossiers was likely derived form phone meta data lifted by "contractors" via 702's.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Oh I want this guy to burn as well

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Comey's working as fast as he can to throw his trusted friend under the bus.

IDAGG said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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Point is he has no ties to Manafort or Page. I'd bet money he never spoke to them. And he walks into a Special Counsel interview and they have every thing he'd done, talked about on the phone, texted, whatever. And he was gone from the campaign but maintained contacts with associates in the Trump Administration.

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Maybe this has been posted somewhere on this thread or the couple of others that are related. If so, I apologize:

Basically they used the Carter Page FISA to two-hop everyone in the Trump campaign.

Interesting way to spy on a political campaign.

Meanwhile, Carter Page has never been charged with anything and has talked to anyone and everyone that will listen. Which means:

1) Carter Page is likely innocent.
2) If not it means:
a) He is an idiot for talking so freely if he is guilty. Since he is an Annapolis grad, I doubt he is an idiot.
b) He has some sort of deal with Mueller, but I would think Mueller wouldn't let him talk so freely if that were the case.

I am no lawyer, but I would bet the FBI has known for some time that Page is innocent and just kept using the FISA warrant to spy on Trump'c campaign and administration.

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I want to be real honest, I think Page was the chosen target to build this BS hoax against the american voters, by John Brennan. It's not been proven, but the hair on my neck says Page is/was a contract operative for the CIA. And with his history being surveilled by the FBI before in 2013 in their sting operation to get Podobnyy and Sporyshev, and Page walked away and was described as a cooperating witness. Brennan knew Page was clean but had a spook background that fit the perfect role of a patsy, and just blew up the FISA court from there. Don't forget how involved Brennan was with the creation of the dossier that landed the warrant. And what happens with Page again in this deal? Walks away scot free and unharmed.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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Oh I want this guy to burn as well

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That is one goofy looking mofo

coyote68 said:

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I'm here on the ranch and ready take the top off of a cold Lone Star just like I did 50 years ago in College Station.

It occurs to this cowboy that Mr. Mueller and Mr. Rosenstein may have more than a little coverup going on. Maybe the hunters are about to become the hunted.

I wonder what the heck is so important that you have to take down an elected President??? And risk your careers to do it.

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The Swamp.

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