aggiehawg said:

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drcrinum said:

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https://quodverum.com/2018/12/348/so-where-s-the-302-bob-endgame-nears-for-mueller.html

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.....
And what's missing from Mueller's response? The FBI 302 of the interview between General Flynn and the FBI's Peter Strzok and Joe Pientka, on 24 January 2017.
It seems that a January 302 may not even exist.
Look, there are only two alternatives : either there is a 302 of the Jan 24 interview between General Flynn, Peter Strzok and Joe Pientka, or there is not.
You would hope that any FBI agent interviewing the NSA of the President, would keep contemporaneous notes and record them in a FBI 302. It's not just because it is FBI policy to do so, within 5 days of the interview.
It's because of the importance of the officials involved. As stated, General Flynn was the NSA of an inaugurated US government.
.....
But if there is a 302 of the January 24 interview, it has not been produced to Judge Emmet Sullivan. That's very disturbing. It raises the question : what evidence was used by Mueller to conclude that General Flynn lied to the FBI, in his January 24 interview?
Surely not just the word of the disgraced and fired Peter Strzok, seven months later? That's what it looks like. Because if there's no 302, it appears to indicate that the evidence used by Mueller to trap the General, was based on the interview between Mueller's SC and Peter Strzok, on 22 August.
.....
These are police state tactics on steroids, by a rogue prosecutor who is not just crooked, but also incompetent. That's the conclusion Judge Sullivan is likely to reach this evening, as he considers how Mueller's SC has trashed due process, thrown the rule of law out the window and mocked his court.
Prediction? On 18 December, Judge Emmet Sullivan will throw this trash case out of court. But I think he's going to go further and ask for a DOJ investigation into prosecutorial misconduct.
And then I think AAG Whitaker is going to fire Bob Mueller and shut this probe down, perhaps on the same day if not soon after. It's a scandal that it continues to exist. What's being revealed here is an outrage.
.....

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Probably too much to hope for...but I like the idea.

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Technically speaking, Judge Sullivan has the power to issue bench warrants, should he feel the need. He also can make criminal referrals back to DOJ for gross misconduct within a matter brought before his court.

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"incandescent with fury". Is that bad? It sounds bad.

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"incandescent with fury". Is that bad? It sounds bad.

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Yes, indeed it does, doesn't it? LOL.

If there is no 302, this needs to be tossed out of court and the prosecutors need to be disciplined for misconduct.

This conversation where Flynn supposedly lied now amounts to hearsay.

bmks270 said:

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If there is no 302, this needs to be tossed out of court and the prosecutors need to be disciplined for misconduct.

This conversation where Flynn supposedly lied now amounts to hearsay.

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It was always hearsay, it's just that there was an exception to the hearsay rule that covered 302s as records kept in the ordinary course of the FBI's business. That is, original notes and the form 302 was filed within 7 days of the interview, at most.

Just glanced at mueller's latesr court paper. Sounds to me like he knows he has a serious problem.

Very good article by Jonathan Turley.


https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/421530-no-glory-in-james-comey-getting-away-with-his-abuse-of-fbi-power

bmks270 said:

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If there is no 302, this needs to be tossed out of court and the prosecutors need to be disciplined for misconduct.

This conversation where Flynn supposedly lied now amounts to hearsay.

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I don't think it's a question if there was a 302. It is referenced to in the Strzok interview on 7-19-17

In this interview they talk about Strzok conduction the interview and Pientka taking notes and writing the 302. SO there is a 302 written by Joe Pientka somewhere, they just haven't produced it.

Not having produced it at this stage of the case will not curry favor with a judge who has repeatedly ordered it to be handed over.

blindey said:

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Not having produced it at this stage of the case will not curry favor with a judge who has repeatedly ordered it to be handed over.

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Sullivan issued a Brady Order early this year. That includes exculpatory evidence being given to Flynn's lawyers. If Team Mueller didn't produce a nearly contemporaneous Form 302 for the Flynn interview to a federal judge asking specifically for it, safe to assume it was never produced to Flynn's lawyers either.

That's a triple slap to Judge Sullivan.

The 302 is evidence in the case that the prosecution refuses to release to the judge or defendant.
Looks like they are hiding something.
Scums.

Christopher Steele is all over the place these days. He's also more than a little nutty.

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British ex-spy Christopher Steele, who wrote the Democrat-financed anti-Trump dossier, said in a court case that he was hired by a Democratic law firm in preparation for Hillary Clinton challenging the results of the 2016 presidential election.

He said the law firm Perkins Coie wanted to be in a position to contest the results based on evidence he unearthed on the Trump campaign conspiring with Moscow on election interference.

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His scenario is contained in a sealed Aug. 2 declaration in a defamation law suit brought by three Russian bankers in London. The trio's American attorneys filed his answers Tuesday in a libel lawsuit in Washington against the investigative firm Fusion GPS, which handled the former British intelligence officer.
In an answer to interrogatories, Mr. Steele wrote: "Fusion's immediate client was law firm Perkins Coie. It engaged Fusion to obtain information necessary for Perkins Coie LLP to provide legal advice on the potential impact of Russian involvement on the legal validity of the outcome of the 2016 US Presidential election.


"Based on that advice, parties such as the Democratic National Committee and HFACC Inc. (also known as 'Hillary for America') could consider steps they would be legally entitled to take to challenge the validity of the outcome of that election."
The Democrats never filed a challenge, but Mr. Steele's answer suggested that was one option inside the Clinton camp, which funded Mr. Steele's research along with the Democratic National Committee.

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In his most recent London court filing, Mr. Steele is defending against a libel lawsuit by citing a discredited story about a computer server, Trump Tower and a Russian bank.
The suit was brought by three Russian oligarchs who control Moscow's Alfa Bank. Mr. Steele, under the dossier heading of election interference, accused them of paying cash bribes to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

The bankers Mikhail Fridman, Petr Aven and German Khan also sued Fusion GPS.

The case was dismissed by a D.C. Superior Court judge. Lawyers filed an appeal in U.S. District Court and attached Mr. Steele's August declarations given in the London court.

"Internet traffic data suggested that a computer server of an entity in which the Claimants have an interest, Alfa Bank, had been communicating with a computer server linked to the Trump Organization," Mr. Steele stated.

His goal was to show that his unverified dossier was correct when he wrote of an "extensive conspiracy."
But the server story has fallen into the "fake news" category by most accounts.

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Mr. Steele faces a second defamation suit in London, this one from Russian entrepreneur Aleksej Gubarev, owner of XBT Holdings and provider of computer servers to thousands of clients.

In his final December 2016 dossier memo, Mr. Steele accused Mr. Gubarev of actually performing the hacking on Democratic computers under duress from Russian intelligence. He said in a court filing that the allegation came from unsolicited call-ins.

Mr. Gubarev said the allegations are made up. In Florida, he also is suing BuzzFeed, the news website that published the entire dossier in January 2017.

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LINK

The issue to me - is there justice in the Justice System? It seems to be governed by non-compliant players who simply ignore or play loose with the rules, rely entirely on deception and pretend they are oblivious to their corruption. It is rare when someone (not us deplorables/common folk) is actually held in violation AND rarer still...suffers REAL consequences for their misdeeds. Not to mention, the process is so eerily slow as to emulate death.

Rant over.

Tailgate88 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Technically speaking, Judge Sullivan has the power to issue bench warrants, should he feel the need. He also can make criminal referrals back to DOJ for gross misconduct within a matter brought before his court.

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"incandescent with fury". Is that bad? It sounds bad.

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The author made up the "incandescent with fury" emotion. But I do hope to hell the judge is "incandescent with fury."

Having criticized the author for projecting emotion on the judge, I will say this: The author nails it: Either there is a contemporaneous 302 or there isn't. The Mueller response seems incomplete. If there is no contemporaneous 302 I would have expected Mueller to state why. Instead they just file a 7 month old 302. What in blazes?

aggiehawg said:

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blindey said:

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Not having produced it at this stage of the case will not curry favor with a judge who has repeatedly ordered it to be handed over.

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Sullivan issued a Brady Order early this year. That includes exculpatory evidence being given to Flynn's lawyers. If Team Mueller didn't produce a nearly contemporaneous Form 302 for the Flynn interview to a federal judge asking specifically for it, safe to assume it was never produced to Flynn's lawyers either.

That's a triple slap to Judge Sullivan.

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It sure looks like neither the i's are dotted nor the t's crossed with the SC. It'll be interesting to see what the judge does.

IDAGG said:

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Tailgate88 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Technically speaking, Judge Sullivan has the power to issue bench warrants, should he feel the need. He also can make criminal referrals back to DOJ for gross misconduct within a matter brought before his court.

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"incandescent with fury". Is that bad? It sounds bad.

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The author made up the "incandescent with fury" emotion. But I do hope to hell the judge is "incandescent with fury."

Having criticized the author for projecting emotion on the judge, I will say this: The author nails it: Either there is a contemporaneous 302 or there isn't. The Mueller response seems incomplete. If there is no contemporaneous 302 I would have expected Mueller to state why. Instead they just file a 7 month old 302. What in blazes?

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Again there is no way they can tell the judge after their filing yesterday there was never any "contemptuous 302". All they can do is either explain why they didn't file it after the judge specifically asked for it TWICE or they can say they don't know where it is.

The prosecution filed their own evidence that points to and specifically describes no only the 302 but who wrote it. The time for denying its existence is over. Judge sullivan asked for it 9 months ago in his initial Brady request and then gave them a second chance when he asked again on the 3 days ago. Sullivan is no fool. He asked again for a reason, he knew it existed at one time and he knew he didn't have it.

They tried some slight of have with the two 302s they filed yesterday only they shot themselves in the foot because the interview on 7/19/17 refers to the 302 written for the 1/24/17 interview. The FBI even went as far as to have their former honeypot now CNN pundit go out and try and start a narrative that this was initially and CI investigation and that the record of the Flynn interview would not be on a 302 the interview was originally documented in something called an EC (Electronic Communication), a non-testimonial, classified (likely TS) doc.

Are these some of the recent ones?

Here is something else that is going to have to be addressed when the truth is known about how they spied on Trump. If what is suspected is true, Obama used FVEY to initiate the spying on Trump. That's what NSA Rogers initially discovered and what he warned Trump about during the transition, as well as the FISAs on 4 for his campaign members.

People like Bill Binney and others walked away from the NSA when they discovered that Michael Hayden had weaponized the weapon they developed defend the country from foreign powers and turned it on the american citizens. According to those whistleblowers Five Eyes spy agencies have an agreement to spy on each others population and share the mass surveillance data via a global search interface (X-Keyscore). Circumventing national laws prohibiting mass spying against their own citizens. The largest criminal conspiracy in the world.

Keep in mind the history of FVEY and when it was developed. The original "Atlantic Charter" was put together by the FBI in 1941. Who was the head of the FBI in 1941? J Edgar Hoover was more notorious for spying on everyone and putting together dossiers on everyone to maintain his power and control what he wanted to do. Politicians feared that old queen more than they did the Germans and later the Russians. And that was back in the archaic days of surveillance and wiretaps. The NSA today in Ft Meade alone measures their storage capacity in yottabytes, which big data scientists use to talk about how much government data the NSA or FBI have on people altogether. Put it in terms of DVDs, ONE yottabyte would require 250 trillion of them. And they have the capacity to suck up around 10 terabytes a second world wide. it's insane.

Obama's sloppiness could cost them this tool if it is ever fully exposed and I think is the desperation as well as motivation to try and cover up this entire thing. Even when Mueller's investigation is gone, this will not be over.

Secolobo said:

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Are these some of the recent ones?

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Only recently discovered they were deleted, but they were the two phones that were used by Strzok and Page during their brief tenure with the special counsel last year.

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They tried some slight of have with the two 302s they filed yesterday only they shot themselves in the foot because the interview on 7/19/17 refers to the 302 written for the 1/14/17 interview. The FBI even went as far as to have their former honeypot now CNN pundit go out and try and start a narrative that this was initially and CI investigation and that the record of the Flynn interview would not be on a 302 the interview was originally documented in something called an EC (Electronic Communication), a non-testimonial, classified (likely TS) doc.

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That will fly worse than a lead balloon. Because the narrative has fallen apart. Comey blew it all to hell with his recent boast, "I sent them."

Even their fellow traveler, Sally Yates, was furious that Comey had screwed up the plan but she tried to cover it by telling WH Counsel it was a Logan Act investigation. A Logan Act* investigation makes it criminal and a 302 must be filed within five days according to FBI rules.

*An opportunity was lost here. To force DOJ to actually prosecute under the Logan Act so the SCOTUS could strike it down as unconstitutional. There is always John Kerry, though, on his frantic efforts to meet with Iranians to make sure Obama and others were still going to get their continued "vig" from the Iranian deal during the Trump administration.

aggiehawg said:

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They tried some slight of have with the two 302s they filed yesterday only they shot themselves in the foot because the interview on 7/19/17 refers to the 302 written for the 1/14/17 interview. The FBI even went as far as to have their former honeypot now CNN pundit go out and try and start a narrative that this was initially and CI investigation and that the record of the Flynn interview would not be on a 302 the interview was originally documented in something called an EC (Electronic Communication), a non-testimonial, classified (likely TS) doc.

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That will fly worse than a lead balloon. Because the narrative has fallen apart. Comey blew it all to hell with his recent boast, "I sent them."

Even their fellow traveler, Sally Yates, was furious that Comey had screwed up the plan but she tried to cover it by telling WH Counsel it was a Logan Act investigation. A Logan Act* investigation makes it criminal and a 302 must be filed within five days according to FBI rules.

*An opportunity was lost here. To force DOJ to actually prosecute under the Logan Act so the SCOTUS could strike it down as unconstitutional. There is always John Kerry, though, on his frantic efforts to meet with Iranians to make sure Obama and others were still going to get their continued "vig" from the Iranian deal during the Trump administration.

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Is "vig" a legal term? Latin for ______?

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Is "vig" a legal term? Latin for ______?

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LOL! You caught me! Not the legal term for kickbacks, which I was alleging.

Have no doubt that it was the reason for Kerry's frantic visits with the Iranians though.

whatthehey78 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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They tried some slight of have with the two 302s they filed yesterday only they shot themselves in the foot because the interview on 7/19/17 refers to the 302 written for the 1/14/17 interview. The FBI even went as far as to have their former honeypot now CNN pundit go out and try and start a narrative that this was initially and CI investigation and that the record of the Flynn interview would not be on a 302 the interview was originally documented in something called an EC (Electronic Communication), a non-testimonial, classified (likely TS) doc.

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That will fly worse than a lead balloon. Because the narrative has fallen apart. Comey blew it all to hell with his recent boast, "I sent them."

Even their fellow traveler, Sally Yates, was furious that Comey had screwed up the plan but she tried to cover it by telling WH Counsel it was a Logan Act investigation. A Logan Act* investigation makes it criminal and a 302 must be filed within five days according to FBI rules.

*An opportunity was lost here. To force DOJ to actually prosecute under the Logan Act so the SCOTUS could strike it down as unconstitutional. There is always John Kerry, though, on his frantic efforts to meet with Iranians to make sure Obama and others were still going to get their continued "vig" from the Iranian deal during the Trump administration.

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Is "vig" a legal term? Latin for ______?

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"juice"

nm.... I just noticed you emoticon

If you ever get upside down with your local sports book you'll understand what the vig is really quickly

The corruption and abuse of power is so obvious at this point, there should be arrest warrants out for all involved, the problem
is they are the ones with the authority to issue such warrants. I'm not sure what legal means exist to issue justice in this instance. All these people will walk and never be punished.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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If you ever get upside down with your local sports book you'll understand what the vig is really quickly

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The continuing kickbacks to Obama and other certain individuals in his administration are a given. The question is how and from where, they are getting the payments? And when will the NSA give that information up?

aggiehawg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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If you ever get upside down with your local sports book you'll understand what the vig is really quickly

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The continuing kickbacks to Obama and other certain individuals in his administration are a given. The question is how and from where, they are getting the payments? And when will the NSA give that information up?

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I think to this day the Uranium One and The Iran deal all tie together in the financial scheme of things and that is where they will find the link in the money. Schweitzer said it years ago.

The source of those Billions Barry gave in multiple denominations is still sketchy, not talking about the frozen funds, we are talking about the pallets of cash in US and Foreign currency. Those kickback (vig) still happen today.

There is a journalist digging in these crazy book deals that all seem to originate out of a foreign publisher, overpaying for books in advance that have no chance in hell of breaking even much less turn a profit. Just like these mysterious gofundme accounts that magically generate millions of dollars to people on the left that all seem to be taking one for the resistance.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-12-15/mueller-scrubbed-messages-peter-strzoks-iphone-oig-recovers-19000-new-fbi-lovebird

Just incredible.

RoscoePColtrane said:

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aggiehawg said:

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RoscoePColtrane said:

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If you ever get upside down with your local sports book you'll understand what the vig is really quickly

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The continuing kickbacks to Obama and other certain individuals in his administration are a given. The question is how and from where, they are getting the payments? And when will the NSA give that information up?

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I think to this day the Uranium One and The Iran deal all tie together in the financial scheme of things and that is where they will find the link in the money. Schweitzer said it years ago.

The source of those Billions Barry gave in multiple denominations is still sketchy, not talking about the frozen funds, we are talking about the pallets of cash in US and Foreign currency. Those kickback (vig) still happen today.

There is a journalist digging in these crazy book deals that all seem to originate out of a foreign publisher, overpaying for books in advance that have no chance in hell of breaking even much less turn a profit. Just like these mysterious gofundme accounts that magically generate millions of dollars to people on the left that all seem to be taking one for the resistance.

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Don't forget solyndra, gm, tech companies, etc. that were funded by the government and laundered back to politicians and slush funds. Domestic and internationally.

This is a really good catch by Margot.

This is a lie on paper to the court, it's kinda minor but it shows a pattern of lies to the court.

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-12-14/the-maria-butina-case-is-not-about-russian-spying

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....Ultimately, it was up to the U.S. authorities whether to prosecute Butina or let her hold overt meetings with conservatives, deeming them harmless to national security and perhaps even useful for fostering communication. They decided to prosecute, even though the court documents in Butina's case describe activities that were unrelated to the illegal hunt for information, which is how dictionaries define spying....

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Not a Russian spy after all. I guess we will not hear anything more about her in the MSM since she no longer fits the 'muh-Russia' narrative.'

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1074181501774815234.html

Very interesting thread about Wolfe, the leaker. It centers upon an overlookded footnote at the bottom of Page 7 in the Government's Reply to Defendant's Sentencing Memorandum:



https://www.scribd.com/document/395775597/Wolfe-Case-DOJ-Response-to-Defense-Sentencing-Memo

These doesn't seem much doubt that in time it will be learned that the Obama administration was one of the most criminal in our history, and the Democratic Party one of the worst movements.

You might enjoy reading THIS titan.

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This Response addresses Professors Joseph Fishkin and David Pozen's Asymmetric Constitutional Hardball. Fishkin and Pozen argue that Republicans have engaged in "asymmetric constitutional hardball" since 1993. This Response accepts the authors' contention that Republicans have increasingly engaged in constitutional hardball but casts doubt on the purported asymmetry.

Part I questions whether one of the authors' primary examples of Republican constitutional hardballgovernment shutdowns resulting from tensions over spending and other matters between Presidents Obama and Clinton on the one hand and congressional Republicans on the othersupports the authors' thesis, especially given that the shutdowns could at least as easily be blamed on the Presidents as on Congress.

Part II highlights important examples of Democratic constitutional hardball, especially hardball by the Obama Administration, that are omitted from the authors' analysis. Part II also briefly reviews reasons why Democrats have been increasingly inclined toward constitutional hardball.
Part III discusses in some detail a particularly important example of Obama Administration constitutional hardballits efforts to reach and implement, over significant opposition in Congress, a nuclear agreement with Iran. These efforts circumvented Congress and involved lying to the public, engaging in legally aggressive lifting of sanctions on Iran, and even spying on the agreement's domestic opponents.

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aggiehawg,

Yes, that was interesting. Especially this:

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Part II highlights important examples of Democratic constitutional hardball, especially hardball by the Obama Administration, that are omitted from the authors' analysis. Part II also briefly reviews reasons why Democrats have been increasingly inclined toward constitutional hardball.

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The odd thing about the Iran treaty though, is despite the big (and implicit mandate against Reid) Senate mid-term victory in Nov 2014 and being given both houses, the GOP Congrtess actually turned over their power to Obama on Iran "fast-tracking" the process, and it wasn't entirely the WH. Wasn't one of Cruz's big moments of standing up to the go-alongs on the Senate floor over this punt?

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Wasn't one of Cruz's big moments of standing up to the go-alongs on the Senate floor over this punt?

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Yes, I believe it was.