Does the acceptance of the guilty plea affect any civil litigation Carter Page may bring?

richardag said:

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Does the acceptance of the guilty plea affect any civil litigation Carter Page may bring?

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Well, yes and no. Judicial notice can be taken of the guilty plea and the jury instruction given about it.

I expect there's a settlement well before trial, however.

Speaking of bias--hello twitter--don't y'all think Strzok's tweet is likely either hateful, or almost certainly false?

Just wondering. Seems the lords of truth at twitter had an issue with Trump, but gave ole' Pete a pass on the word "corruption". He ought to have to explain his issue.

Here we go, drcrinum, The Hammer.

I guess it's the real deal, or at least according to Grenell

What is The Hammer?

I'm going to leave this up to crinum. I found it about 5 months ago, and crinum was aware of it, but couldn't confirm it, so he chose not to include it.

It's basically a very big brother cyber set up. A guy who supposedly helped develop The Hammer wrote an article describing what it was, and how it could be used. I'll try to find the article, but I'm not surprised it's legitimate. Give me a little time, I'm semi-busy right now, but will try to find it tonight.

https://theamericanreport.org/2019/05/22/montgomery-the-hammer-surveillance-system-whistleblower-became-the-deep-states-enemy-number-one-after-exposing-the-truth/

fasthorse05 said:

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Here we go, drcrinum, The Hammer.

I guess it's the real deal, or at least according to Grenell

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I clueless about this.

Very clearly this was the case. The Hamr system was used to spy on folks as far and wide as journalists (not just conservative ones/Attkisson) and politicians to include Feinstein, as well as SCOTUS justices. The goal was/is to obtain power/leverage, obviously. It's abuse has still not been publicly discussed/fully revealed.

The 'fantasy' if you will at this point is that somehow Durham (or really Barr) exposes this in the next 80 or whatever days; color me skeptical. If you believe this exists, then you logically believe DoJ and CIA won't let it be disclosed.

Keep in mind when you read stuff that Clapper was/is a low functioning moron, and the sourcing is scarce, but...this does sound believable to me. I can believe they bragged about it to James Browns' hairpiece too.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/obamas-illegal-spying-on-americans-labeled-operation-hammer-will-soon-be-exposed/

nortex97 said:

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Very clearly this was the case. The Hamr system was used to spy on folks as far and wide as journalists (not just conservative ones/Attkisson) and politicians to include Feinstein, as well as SCOTUS justices. The goal was/is to obtain power/leverage, obviously. It's abuse has still not been publicly discussed/fully revealed.

The 'fantasy' if you will at this point is that somehow Durham (or really Barr) exposes this in the next 80 or whatever days; color me skeptical. If you believe this exists, then you logically believe DoJ and CIA won't let it be disclosed.

Keep in mind when you read stuff that Clapper was/is a low functioning moron, and the sourcing is scarce, but...this does sound believable to me. I can believe they bragged about it to James Browns' hairpiece too.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2019/05/obamas-illegal-spying-on-americans-labeled-operation-hammer-will-soon-be-exposed/

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Uhmm. My BS meter just moved a tick or so. I'm with you. Very skeptical it really existed and if it did, has been shut down way before now. (Maxine is too stupid to be trusted. She probably thinks an email group list is high tech.)

Also, Horowitz is not the IG for intelligence. He's IG for DOJ. So why he even enters the equation here is kind of odd.

will25u said:

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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/08/21/sketchy-business-clinesmith-agreement-structured-to-avoid-scrutiny-upon-special-counsel/

Sundance has obtained the Statement of Offense regarding Clinesmith; it is embedded in his above article along with the guilty plea. He writes a detailed article indicating that it now appears Trish Anderson also knew that Clinesmith altered the email to coverup the fact that Carter Page was a CIA source, & that Sundance suspects that Durham/Barr are attempting to hide the latter by omitting certain info.

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suspects that Durham/Barr are attempting to hide the latter by omitting certain info.

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Why would they do that?

It's all explained in his article. He see a parallel to the James Wolfe prosecution...coverup all the politics/politicians involved.

Paging Nortex, among others, who believe little, to no prosecution for the important folks will occur.

I'm starting to slide in that direction, hence my lack of complete faith in Durham. Like the guy a lot, but am still not 100% sold.

Having said that, Sundance has been going for the kill on everyone associated in this matter, which I agree with and believe it's necessary.

Heh, well sure, Sundance is gonna go full "I'm upset" at the folks playing their part to hide/obfuscate DoJ malfeasance related to both spygate itself, and of course the whole muh Russia mueller coverup.

It won't do anything other than get clicks on his site/blog though.

The Clinesmith plea deal does look...feckless. I am not sure it is as bad as the 'deal' Wolfe got to get the SSCI out of trouble, but it is really, really unlikely a Dem judge goes that hard at sentencing for this underling very junior attorney. He quite deliberately edited a document to lie to the court, as part of a group effort (conspiracy would be easy to portray given the facts) to deceive the court to spy on a political campaign, and not just an individual, but all of the parties that person dealt with. To say the least it's the polar opposite of what General Flynn was charged with (where he made no false statements, all actual records/transcripts of his interview haven't been released, and the agents themselves interviewing him had a deceptive intent, and thought he didn't lie, then his family was threatened with prosecution unless he plead guilty.)

Trisha Anderson is a little higher up. But it's August 21, 2020, and I have seen no evidence of any real accountability for the 20 month witch hunt which was known to be false, or even the release of damning information (like, for the millionth time, the expanded mueller scope memo's Rosenstein signed off on; there's no plausible reason for secrecy on those now).

The secrecy betrays the institution's intent/motive. It has not broken it's M.O. as to maintaining as much secrecy as is absolutely possible, and charging no real players in a larger scheme.

this feels like hrc email scandal 2.0

Did Giuliani drop anything yesterday? What was bluster about on Wednesday?

For the life of me, I can't understand why Barr/Durham would go easy on anyone associated with Spygate, UNLESS, they are getting more than they would be giving. To a degree, as long as Clinesmith has a felony on his record, I'll survive. Besides, if you don't have a felony on your record, you probably can't work for the Democratic Party.


However, when it comes to the big guys, assuming they can build a case, then they absolutely have to get everyone they can, especially Brennan, Clapper, Comey, and the politicians. Trump,Barr,Durham are going to get ***** slapped in the media no matter what they do, so they need to go for the gold.

As I've said before, it's not Barr/Durham's fault this took so long and is close to the election. Maybe the DOJ/FBI shouldn't have been such *******s and hidden everything from everyone to start with.

Sidney retweeted. She knows all.

Interesting.

My concern - If little or nothing in the way of a concerted prosecution becomes evident SOON...the FBI, DOJ and POTUS are going to have a MUCH BIGGER problem than the one at hand. From my limited vantage point, the general populace are beginning to distrust the entire system. My WAGuess is...if no visible evidence of Justice in action...it won't matter how the election turns out. HOPE/PRAY I'm wrong.

drcrinum said:

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Interesting.

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I'm not sure that is altogether true. If the Russian agents are on US soil and Page is an operational contact and knows them, the CIA can request (direct) Page to engage and report back. The CIA is prohibited from targeting or investigating USpers on US soil. They aren't prohibited from asking an American citizen to assist in a counter-intel operation against a foreign national. Page was not the focus. He was an operational contact with the focus of the CIA activity.

Big difference.

drcrinum said:

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will25u said:

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https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/08/21/sketchy-business-clinesmith-agreement-structured-to-avoid-scrutiny-upon-special-counsel/

Sundance has obtained the Statement of Offense regarding Clinesmith; it is embedded in his above article along with the guilty plea. He writes a detailed article indicating that it now appears Trish Anderson also knew that Clinesmith altered the email to coverup the fact that Carter Page was a CIA source, & that Sundance suspects that Durham/Barr are attempting to hide the latter by omitting certain info.

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This thing reeks of another institutional preservation approach. What I suspect is that Barr does not want to touch any material that contacts the Weissmann/Mueller special counsel however, what took place under the Weissmann/Mueller special counsel is actually more corrupt than any activity that preceded it.

What I also strongly suspect is that Bill Barr is using his oft stated "I will not allow the DOJ to be political" as a crutch in his preservation approach. If nothing from the world or sphere of politics is allowed to enter the world or sphere of the DOJ then what is supposed to happen with all those years of congressional evidence gathering?

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It sure looks like this is what Barr is trying to do. Clean up DOJ without creating distrust by the public by exposing how corrupt it really is. Piss poor approach, if true. I still have hope for Barr/Durham because they really are the last chance for any accountability. Of course, Solomon will probably be on Dobbs tonight hearing of more indictments coming so who knows.

whatthehey78 said:

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My concern - If little or nothing in the way of a concerted prosecution becomes evident SOON...the FBI, DOJ and POTUS are going to have a MUCH BIGGER problem than the one at hand. From my limited vantage point, the general populace are beginning to distrust the entire system. My WAGuess is...if no visible evidence of Justice in action...it won't matter how the election turns out. HOPE/PRAY I'm wrong.

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Precisely. There seems to be a desire to let the people know what happened (which we already know in large part) but no stomach for making the perpetrators pay. If that's the case, the people will not trust these institutions any further because no deterrent for future malfeasance will have been applied.

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Sketchy Business Clinesmith Agreement Structured to Avoid Scrutiny Upon Special Counsel

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We have four outside AUSA appointed by Durham/Barr looking at specific issues within Spygate.

To my knowledge, Mueller's team is one of the specific issues being reviewed. I'm not saying the Refuge is wrong, I'm just saying it conflicts with a specific attorney's assignment.