AggieHank86 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I think he was 400-500 yards away.

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so, that makes it steeper-still.

If this guy were actually an expert, would he not have chosen something down around the 10th or 12th floor, in order to get more through and through shots?

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He may not have been able to, or that floor may offer a better vantage point. Apparently everyone wanted rooms facing that way for the concerts, and the cheaper rooms are on the lower floors. They may have sold out.

Somehow, someway...this dude trained for this...

AggieHank86 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I think he was 400-500 yards away.

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so, that makes it steeper-still.

If this guy were actually an expert, would he not have chosen something down around the 10th or 12th floor, in order to get more through and through shots?

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No it makes it shallower...


Assuming 1500 feet horizontal (500 yards) from target and elevated 250 feet (25th floor or so) that's a 9.5-deg angle. OR a drop of 2" per foot of travel (250/1500 = 1/6)...

So with that in mind, a bullet with a straight path where everyone is standing 3 feet from each other will drop 6 inches per person.... so assuming no ricochet effects, you are looking at 4-5 people potentially killed or injured per bullet impact when the crowd was very crowded. Theoretically a bullet could have travelled through neck, chest, belly, groin, leg.... as it went through

AggieHank86 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I think he was 400-500 yards away.

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so, that makes it steeper-still.

If this guy were actually an expert, would he not have chosen something down around the 10th or 12th floor, in order to get more through and through shots?

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Availability of those lower suites probably had to do with it. He knew the corner he needed for target zone and took whatever suite was there, I'd expect.

Since he was planning on taking his life anyway, I'm a little surprised he didn't have a bomb rigged to the door of the suite as well. Thank heavens he wasn't that intent on taking out as many first responders as he could.

Quote:

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I was thinking about this. He was between 300 and 400 feet elevated, and apparently about 600 feet from the target, Correct? That strikes me as a relatively steep angle. I would be surprised if any bullet hit more than two or perhaps three people. Maybe chest then hip then leg. /

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AggieHank86 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I think he was 400-500 yards away.

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so, that makes it steeper-still.

If this guy were actually an expert, would he not have chosen something down around the 10th or 12th floor, in order to get more through and through shots?

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are you confusing feet and yards? 400 yards is 1200 feet, definitely not steeper than 600 feet.

I am just trying to evaluate these claims that he was some sort of an expert, with lots of "training." I don't think anyone is claiming that he is some sort of professional hitman, but it seems to me (if I were planning this sort of thing) that I would have figured out exactly what room I wanted, then slid $500 to my casino host.

AggieHank86 said:

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MouthBQ98 said:

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Coming in at a shallow angle into a densely packed crowd, single bullets probably hit multiple individuals as they passed through one and hit someone beyond.

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I was thinking about this. He was between 300 and 400 feet elevated, and apparently about 600 feet from the target, Correct? That strikes me as a relatively steep angle. I would be surprised if any bullet hit more than two or perhaps three people. Maybe chest then hip then leg.

Again, there a better experts than me on this forum.

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Lots of variables there. You're correct to look at the angle the bullet comes from, but that's only step one. Then like others have said you've got to look at the "make and model" so to speak of the round. Assuming AK-47 you know the caliber, but there are numerous different rounds made in that caliber and they'll have different performance characteristics. Again if AK-47 there's a good chance the rounds are military surplus. Then we need to examine the ballistic characteristics of that round at that distance. How a particular round responds at a given point can depend on among other things it's velocity at the time of impact and the change in velocity at impact and the effect on the internal stress of the round.

I've read about certain .223 rounds of a that at one range will pass cleanly through leaving a "minor" wound channel, but at "sweet spot" range (think velocity as the bullet is fired and starts slowign down) the bullet fragments inside the body creating a very nasty wound.

A fake bomb in the stair well and by the elevators could have easily bought him another thirty minutes.

Agnzona said:

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A fake bomb in the stair well and by the elevators could have easily bought him another thirty minutes.

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Sniper would have taken him out before then.

CollegeStationAgFan said:

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aTmAg said:

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CollegeStationAgFan said:

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aTmAg said:

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CollegeStationAgFan said:

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If there was ever any doubt about what a d-bag Dan Bilzerian was.....

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I have no idea who that guy is, but what in that story makes him a d-bag?

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There's a quote at the end: "I'm headed home. There's apparently nothing I can do."
Well, no....you ran and got out with your life. LEOs don't need you to come back and help.

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Lot's of people ran out with their lives.. Does that make them all d-bags?

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Certainly not. I'm speaking specifically about those who took the time to Instagram that they were headed back to the scene with a gun, like the Dan Bilzerian signal had been activated.

It's highly unlikely that LVMPD was on the radio clamoring to get Bilzerian there STAT!

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LOL

To the other people thinking anyone is implying that fleeing an active shooter seen is a sign of dbaggery...Dan's heartless tough guy commentary was what was very DBaggish to me. "Hey, now that I'm out of the line of fire, I'm gonna make a video of me acting like i'm not phased at all by this mass shooting and people will really think I'm a badass hero if I talk about going back to my place to grab one of my 6,000 tricked out guns and going delta force on this guy".

Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

You are correct. I misread the "400 yards" as having been "feet," says my question used "feet" for both altitude and distance.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Presley OBannons Sword said:

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scottimus said:

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The fact that he took a corner room and set up platforms and cameras. There is training involved.

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what training does that require? I'm not trying to be a dick, but everyone is so sure he had training, and I see nothing done here that proves he had training. taking a corner room with a lot of windows and setting up a stable platform is common sense for anyone that has seen a movie.

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fify

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When I say training, I don't mean he went to an academy and learned nor even YouTube.

The training could be all in his mind, rehearsed may be a better word.

He had 10 guns

Maximum capacity magazines

Huge ammo cache.

Cameras Set up as recon

Corner elevated room with two perches

Shooting stands in the room

Stolen Identitiy

There stalking for days

Executed and had an escape plan.


That all requires some form of training/planning/rehearsing/ whatever you want to call it.


Do I need to list more details?

TexasAggie_02 said:

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Quote:

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I was thinking about this. He was between 300 and 400 feet elevated, and apparently about 600 feet from the target, Correct? That strikes me as a relatively steep angle. I would be surprised if any bullet hit more than two or perhaps three people. Maybe chest then hip then leg. /

Quote:

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AggieHank86 said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I think he was 400-500 yards away.

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so, that makes it steeper-still.

If this guy were actually an expert, would he not have chosen something down around the 10th or 12th floor, in order to get more through and through shots?

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are you confusing feet and yards? 400 yards is 1200 feet, definitely not steeper than 600 feet.

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Wasn't this place across the street? That's how I've read it.

yes, it was across the street. the farther away the target, the less steep the angle is what i was trying to point out.

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

i think it makes him smart to change his mind about returning.

FireAg said:

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Somehow, someway...this dude trained for this...

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Almost anyone of my friends could have pulled this off if they were evil or psychotic enough. I am sure most on here could as well. His target was tens of thousands of people, from not very far away. No doubt, some planning went into this. Hell, maybe he went out to someone's land and tried to mimic the elevation change and distance by unloading on a bunch of cactus or something. My only point is that there are a ton of average dudes who could have pulled something like this off if they were sick and twisted enough.

Rapier108 said:

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Agnzona said:

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A fake bomb in the stair well and by the elevators could have easily bought him another thirty minutes.

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Sniper would have taken him out before then.

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I've wondered about that. Would a sniper take that shot? They would have to use a high caliber and if they missed who knows where in the building the bullet would go.


But if it is a risk worth taking for the shot, would it be feasible for big events like that with surrounding buildings to hire out police or military snipers to be at the ready?

Wildcat said:

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Wycliffe_03 said:

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Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

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he is a trust fund brat who spends his time playing "professional poker" and lifting weights. In his spare time, he engages in "extreme sports" to impress people, all while stressing what an impressive man he is.

Wildcat said:

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Wycliffe_03 said:

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Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

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He's the roided out narcissistic male equivalent of Kim Kardashian. He inherited a ton of money that he claims is from Poker winnings...I'm pretty sure it actually came from his white collar criminal dad.

He posts a lot of scantily clad escorts on his account so a lot of average Joe's idolize him. Calling him a dbag probably just pissed off a lot of fanboy's here who think he was really a Navy Seal and not just a poser.

Agree. Takes some planning, but getting into an elevated position to fire on a mass of people and to set up some sort of warning system (in the age of portable cameras/gopro's being everywhere) if you want to leave time to kill yourself doesn't take a lot.

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Wildcat said:

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Wycliffe_03 said:

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Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

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He's the roided out narcissistic male equivalent of Kim Kardashian. He inherited a ton of money that he claims is from Poker winnings...I'm pretty sure it actually came from his white collar criminal dad.

He posts a lot of scantily clad escorts on his account so a lot of average Joe's idolize him. Calling him a dbag probably just pissed off a lot of fanboy's here who think he was really a Navy Seal and not just a poser.

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But he played one on TV...

Dakota Meyer crushed him today...

You need at least 800 ft. lbs of kinetic energy to reliably bring down something as large a deer. Looking at the ballistics charts, it would have been way below that at 1200 feet from the target using an AR or AK.

Wycliffe_03 said:

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FireAg said:

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Somehow, someway...this dude trained for this...

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Almost anyone of my friends could have pulled this off if they were evil or psychotic enough. I am sure most on here could as well. His target was tens of thousands of people, from not very far away. No doubt, some planning went into this. Hell, maybe he went out to someone's land and tried to mimic the elevation change and distance by unloading on a bunch of cactus or something. My only point is that there are a ton of average dudes who could have pulled something like this off if they were sick and twisted enough.

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Because there are tons of average dudes who "train"/hunt/shoot on a regular basis.

What they do not have is the will.

That movie killer from Colorado walked in and started blasting. He didn't wait for three days.


That takes some serious motivation.

One who would be crazy may have reconsidered.

Makes me think he was completely sane.

Wildcat said:

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

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Straight version of Perez Hilton, uses social media to make himself "famous for being famous".

Wycliffe_03 said:

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Wildcat said:

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Wycliffe_03 said:

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Dan Bilzerian was a roided out dbag long before this though. This doesn't surprise me at all.

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I guess I am old and out of touch. I've never heard of this guy, but he's all over the news like I should know him as a celebrity.

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He's the roided out narcissistic male equivalent of Kim Kardashian. He inherited a ton of money that he claims is from Poker winnings...I'm pretty sure it actually came from his white collar criminal dad.

He posts a lot of scantily clad escorts on his account so a lot of average Joe's idolize him. Calling him a dbag probably just pissed off a lot of fanboy's here who think he was really a Navy Seal and not just a poser.

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Absolutely. Guy is a true POS

I think he paid a bunch of money to have a small cameo in the film Zero Dark Thirty, or maybe it was Lone Survivor

Texaggie7nine said:

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Rapier108 said:

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Agnzona said:

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A fake bomb in the stair well and by the elevators could have easily bought him another thirty minutes.

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Sniper would have taken him out before then.

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I've wondered about that. Would a sniper take that shot? They would have to use a high caliber and if they missed who knows where in the building the bullet would go.


But if it is a risk worth taking for the shot, would it be feasible for big events like that with surrounding buildings to hire out police or military snipers to be at the ready?

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I think they'd take the shot if they had it. A .308 has more than enough range and snipers also use .338 Lapua, 300 Win. Mag. and a few police departments do have a .50 caliber. I'm sure a few use other calibers like 30.06.

Agnzona said:

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A fake bomb in the stair well and by the elevators could have easily bought him another thirty minutes.

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Too many surveillance cameras in the hall ways. He wouldn't have been able to plant a bomb. Even just dropping a back pack somewhere would have aroused suspicion and doubled the chances he was thwarted in the main attack.

But in his suite? No surveillance. It he had access to the right materials he could have made a bomb powerful enough to take out that corner suite and likely the ones on either side of it.

I think this is where we will see a rapid increase in drone technology for police.

Set up gunfire detection with armed drone response.

"In my hotels, someone is ALWAYS watching."