Man, some of you guys are rough! We are all wanting to do what is best for our children. The Bible does say to flee from sin (1 Cor. 6:18; 10:14; 1 Tim. 6:11; 2 Tim. 2:22) so why are people mocking those who follow that teaching?

Some of you act as though it is a personal affront to you that we keep our children home, or in private school. Does it take away from your decision to leave your child in public school? I don't tell others how to raise their children. Don't attack our decision for raising them differently than you.

Maybe if enough people made a stand, though, the public schools would become more responsive to the needs of children, stand up to the lazy parents who let their kids disrupt the learning of others and restore the good capabilities of public school. Until that happens, we will teach our children at home, where we know what they are learning and can progress them based on their abilities.

Patriarch, I hope I did not come across as saying my reasons were better than yours. That is certainly not how I intended it. We just know people who homeschool for different reasons, and I was discussing those (and ours). I was actually trying to support your decision. It takes courage to take on the educator role, and explain it to all of your friends, family, and acquaintances. My wife does most of that in our house.

[This message has been edited by LevelAg (edited 6/15/2006 11:47a).]

Regarding Fleeing.....I looked it up. Scripture actually says to Flee from Sexual Immorality.

However there were several references about turning away from sin, and towards God.

quote:

---

thats the problem with mainstream religion these days. that dont operate in the real world

---

So we should alter God's word to adapt as the world's opinion adapts. Doing that would be a problem.......not holding onto something that stays grounded.





[This message has been edited by aggrad99 (edited 6/15/2006 11:38a).]

quote:

---

Patriarch, I hope I did not come across as saying my reasons were better than yours.

---

Not at all. Your post was written with a much better tone and more accepting of alternative views than mine. I do believe everyone should do what is right for their family, and I understand that it is not always homeschooling -- although sometimes I wish it were.

[This message has been edited by Patriarch (edited 6/15/2006 11:45a).]

the greatest thing God calls you to do is go and preach Gods word to nonbelievers and help grow His kingdom. How do you plan on doing that if you dont get out there where nonbelievers are. i am not asking you to alter Gods word but to help spread it.

I agree.

Remember, we are supposed to be in the world, but not of the world. If our goal is to spread the gospel in the schools, that's one thing (and I think the SBC's goal). If that isn't our goal, than we're leaving our kids open to influences they don't need to have. As it is now, you can pretty much discuss anything you want, other than Christianity.




[This message has been edited by aggrad99 (edited 6/15/2006 12:04p).]

How does my keeping my children at home to learn keep me from going out and spreading the gospel?

Are my children -- who are not baptized believers at the ages of 5 and 7 -- given this same command? How does changing where they are taught preclude me from fulfilling my responsibilities/thankfulness to God?

Believe me, it doesn't. In fact, it probably helps. People ask us about our children. We tell them our children are homeschooled and why. Oftentimes this leads to a discussion of schools and/or religion. Voila -- an opportunity to talk about Jesus Christ.

You don't get that type of opportunity when your kids go to public school. So, now that I think about it, those of you who send your kids to public school aren't doing enough to spread the gospel since you don't have this type of lead-in to open conversations. I must now generally condemn you all for not being the Christians you ought to be.

oh right because when your kids are at a school with kids they make friends with nonbelievers. and those nonbelievers start to see how believers live their lives. thats exactly how i became a believer. the only time i went to church was when i spent the night with my friend on sat night. eventually one thing led to another. i dont want to get into home school because thats a whole other topic.

bbry81

Is it our Children's place to do that??

I say no!!

Just as Christ sat and dined with Sinners, he ask us to do the same to spread the Gospel.....He did not asked his Disciples' Children to do so. He did ask them to bring them up in The Faith, however.

Did he ask the Children to bear their Cross...No, but he did ask us to PREPARE them to Bear their Crosses, and to Pick up The Cross and Follow Him.

The Gospel According to St. Matthew:
7:9 Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone?
7:10 Or if he shall ask him a fish, will he reach him a serpent?
7:11 If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children: how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that ask him?
7:12 All things therefore whatsoever you would that men should do to you, do you also to them. For this is the law and the prophets.
7:13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.
7:14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!
7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in the clothing of sheep, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
7:16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.
7:20 Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.
__________________________________

He did not tell Children to feed his sheep, it was Peter and the Apostles.

Be a light unto the world, but know the world first...

The Gospel According to St. John:
17:1 These things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come, glorify thy Son, that thy Son may glorify thee.
17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he may give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
17:3 Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth; I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
17:5 And now glorify thou me, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.
17:6 I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou hast given me out of the world. Thine they were, and to me thou gavest them; and they have kept thy word.
17:7 Now they have known, that all things which thou hast given me, are from thee:
17:8 Because the words which thou gavest me, I have given to them; and they have received them, and have known in very deed that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them whom thou hast given me: because they are thine:
17:10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
17:11 And now I am not in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name whom thou has given me; that they may be one, as we also are.
17:12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name. Those whom thou gavest me have I kept; and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition, that the scripture may be fulfilled.
17:13 And now I come to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy filled in themselves.
17:14 I have given them thy word, and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world; as I also am not of the world.
17:15 I pray not that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from evil.
17:16 They are not of the world, as I also am not of the world.
17:17 Sanctify them in truth. Thy word is truth.
17:18 As thou hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world.
17:19 And for them do I sanctify myself, that they also may be sanctified in truth.
17:20 And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me;
17:21 That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
17:22 And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them; that they may be one, as we also are one:
17:23 I in them, and thou in me; that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
17:24 Father, I will that where I am, they also whom thou hast given me may be with me; that they may see my glory which thou hast given me, because thou hast loved me before the creation of the world.
17:25 Just Father, the world hath not known thee; but I have known thee: and these have known that thou hast sent me.
17:26 And I have made known thy name to them, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou hast loved me, may be in them, and I in them.
________________________________________

It is like throwing the Lamb to the Wolves when we take our young ones and put them into public schools....

The Gospel According to St. Luke:
10:1 And after these things the Lord appointed also other seventy-two: and he sent them two and two before his face into every city and place whither he himself was to come.
10:2 And he said to them: The harvest indeed is great, but the labourers are few. Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he send labourers into his harvest.
10:3 Go: Behold I send you as lambs among wolves.
___________________________________________


Pray always for His Mercy and Grace


"And the Gates of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It...."

texag_89

i dont think is our children. but when are children become friends with them then it just happens naturally. nothing ever wierd about a conversation or anything ever has to happen. i just hate to hear when christians talk about not being out there where nonbelievers are it scares me.

My kids went to a Christian school their early years. We left the school because of the lack of real Christianity. The school's definition was to imitate the phrarisees and forget about relationship.

Ironically enough, when our kids went to public school, they had more Godly Christian teachers in school who had genuine Christianity in a secular environment. They also got a chance to see the difference and I had some, and still have some, interesting discussions about Christians and the world.

I do not see Christians schools as usually superior to secular schools. I am in Texas which is more conservative than elsewhere, so maybe that is partly why.

I just don't like the "flee" mentality I see in many Christians.

And I have never seen or heard of pornography or a pro homosexual agenda in my district.

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 6/15/2006 1:06p).]

I have no issue with parents wanting to send their children to private christian schools to provide them with a God centered education. In fact, I send my daughter to St. Joseph's Catholic School in Bryan. However, I would not expect the public school system to have to bend toward teaching christianity or any other type of religion as part of the curriculum...there is no place for it in a state run school. If you want a non-secular education, find it somewhere other than a public school. If you don't mind being educated in a non-religious environment, have your kids go to public school.

quote:

---

My kids experience all of these things in private school as well. The big difference is that God is present to help them overcome the difficulties, whereas in public school God is anathema.

---

quote:

---

Before God was kicked out of the public schools in America

---

God may be set aside or kicked out by the school administration, but that doesn't mean he's not there. Christianity won't be preached in the workplace when your children grow up either, yet God will still be there. Your logic is false.

quote:

---

after being allowed in from the time of Jamestown (1607) to the 1960's, the biggest worry in public schools was juvenile delinquency, dropouts, spitwads, and the occasional cheater. Now, we have Columbine...

---

Guess who's fault this is? The school administrations? Nope. The parents. Yeah, you know: The same ones who went to school when they said the Lord's prayer every day. They did a crappy job of raising their kids and took authority away from teachers. Throw in a bunch of drugs that weren't around 50 years ago and you get the problems we have today.

I agree with Apache

The gospel usually spread through relationship w/non believers. When my daughter began attending public school I worried (often sinfully) that she would be "tainted" by exposure and I worried how the friendships she might make would affect her. I was basically forgetting that she is in God's hands wherever she goes and she is never out of His thoughts for one minute.

Having said that I do not want to make it seem as though there is ONE RIGHT WAY to educate children. Each child has different needs and strengths and weaknesses so their educational needs should be tailored accordingly. One child may be stronger to resist "sin" while another might benefit from homeschooling or private school. I just do not think that christians are sinning or throwing their kids into the pit of hell by sending them to public school. Some of you really need to tone down the anti public school rhetoric. Although I realize most of the comments are made in ignorance, so I guess I can give you guys grace for that.

The bottom line is the parents have to take responsibility for raising their children. In the context of education, this can only be done by prayerful consideration of the purpose of education.

Why do you send your kids to school at all? Because everyone else does? Because the law requires you to? Because it is a mission field for my 10 year old?

Christians enjoy this world too much. Paul tells us that we are only visitors here. We should feel out of place and foreign.

To suggest that some children need to be homeschooled because they are not as strong at resisting sin shows a lack of understanding. Parents have to teach their children truth. It is beyond me to understand how a child who spends 40 hours per week in public school and, not counting the time he/she is asleep, spends less than that time with his/her parents, is able to understand that what is taught at home is "normal" and biblical while many of the things he/she sees or hears at school is sin. An exceptional high school student might be sufficiently educated and strong to do this, but it defies logic to suggest that a younger child will not be influenced by inappropriate comments and behavior at school.

If anyone is interested in really thinking about why we educate our children at all, take a look at these two books.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581343841/104-7093204-2439160?v=glance&n=283155



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0875527116/104-7093204-2439160?v=glance&n=283155

[This message has been edited by Patriarch (edited 6/15/2006 2:31p).]

agbrad,

You are the one who set up public school as some kind of "Vanity Fair" (if you don't know, I'm referring to John Bunyon's book, The Pilgrim's Progress which is a good read, by the way). Sin originates in the heart. Sometimes struggling w/sin and temptation shows us how truly sinful our hearts are.

quote:

---

But if you send them to a Private school, they won't be immune to it, and will become judgemental?

---

Maybe they will or maybe not if they are taught to guard against being judgmental, I was mostly using the same kind of over the top rhetoric that those advocating private school were using.

quote:

---

And fwiw-I'd rather work on my children not being judgemental, than a multitude of other things tempting them.

---

So you'd rather raise a judgemental pharisee than expose them to temptation?

Patriarch,

quote:

---

To suggest that some children need to be homeschooled because they are not as strong at resisting sin is insulting and ignorant.

---

Well, I do see a difference in my own kids in the way they deal w/temptation so I was just making an assumption that other parents experienced the same thing. If I offended you, I apologize. I feel as strongly that I'm doing the right thing by sending my children to public school as I'm sure you do in homeschooling your kids. My main issue is with those who think every christian is sinning by sending their children to public school. Regardless, God has different plans for each of His children and I think the experiences my kids have in public school will be used to shape them into useful vessels for the Lord.

Lovelight's being just as combative against private schools as some have been against public....pot/kettle?

[This message has been edited by AggieDave02 (edited 6/15/2006 2:29p).]

Lovelight,

No apology needed. I should not have been so defensive. I was in the process of editing my post when I saw your response.

From prior discussions on this board, I know that you have thought very much about your children's education. My guess is that you and NA are wonderful parents who are raising children to love the Lord. I am thankful for that.

Dave,

I need to repent from my hypocrisy. Please pray for me.

[This message has been edited by Mrs. Lovelight (edited 6/15/2006 2:37p).]

slander...

Patriarch,

I have actually read Doug Wilson's other book Recovering the Lost Tools of Learning, and I agree w/much of what he says. So please don't think my husband and I haven't put thought and prayer into our decision as if we just haven't read enough. But thank you anyway.

AggieDave,

Please don't address me anymore, I find you most offensive. Thanks

The public schools do teach religion. It is the religion of secular humanism. That is the problem in a nutshell.

Nevermind...

[This message has been edited by AggieDave02 (edited 6/15/2006 3:03p).]

I recommend the books to everyone, not just the lovelights -- even the pagans are encouraged to read them.

quote:

---

So you'd rather raise a judgemental pharisee than expose them to temptation?

---

No? When did I say that?

I said I'd rather work on my kids not being judgemental, than other type of temptations (drug, sex, etc).

The consequences of them being judgemental are far less than other temptations.

Patriarch,

I'm sorry for taking offense. I really respect your opinion and agree w/alot of your posts.

I think I've had enough texags for today.

quote:

---

The public schools do teach religion. It is the religion of secular humanism. That is the problem in a nutshell.

---

This is crap. I am a public school high school teacher. At least four people in my department are outspoken believers.

There is no such thing as secular humanism in our curriculum. That is just a load of crap taught in paperback "Christian" books and stuff you hear in church to "up" the offering.

You would find that in my secular school that about 25-30% of the teachers are conservative Christians.

Secular humanism is used in Christian churches like the boogie man used to be used by dumb parents.

Sure it exists, but only relative to the individual teacher.

This is the kind of conspiracy crap that belongs right up there with the alluminati.

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 6/15/2006 3:19p).]

Wow, tls. I'm suprised to hear this from you. As I am offending everyone today, I have a couple of books for you -- one "paperback" and one hardcover.

The first is Doug Wilson's, The Case for Classical Christian Education, linked above. Much of that book talks about how no education is neutral. Maybe this is reconciled with your view that it depends on the teacher, but it seems fairly obvious to me.

The second one is below:



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1581344589/104-7093204-2439160?v=glance&n=283155

TLS, didn't you used to be a lutheran minister, before your school teaching days?

P, if you want to offer a counter argument, that's fine. But I have no intention of spending my money on the book that you suggest.

If you want to use arguments from the book, that's also fine, I will respond. But, I am sick and tired of the brush that paints secular education as so evil. I even had a minister suggest that I was in sin because I wasn't teaching at a Christian school. If I leave, then my students will not be subject to the witness of the light that lives in me. I can't tell you of all of the times that I have been able to witness to students in class, after class, and before class.

[This message has been edited by The Lone Stranger (edited 6/15/2006 3:40p).]

TLS-
When teaching science, my wife was instructed to 'ignore and divert' away from any question dealing with christianity.....

For example, if a kid brought up God Creating the earth, she had to tell them to talk about that with their parents....

The problem that I see, is that no other religion was treated that way, and she could discuss any other theory, as long as it wasn't Christian (specifically creationism).

Maybe Christianity is singled out because it's the most popular religion in the area....I dont know. But dont act like it doesnt happen, and is some great myth.

Political Correctness, especially with regards to seperation of church and state, has gotten out of hand.





[This message has been edited by aggrad99 (edited 6/15/2006 3:50p).]

If you want to use other anecdotes, fine. But, I am telling you that from my experience it is not a problem. I have had interesting discussions with Hindus, Moslems, Wiccans, Mormons, you name it, about the basic plan of salvation and who Jesus really is.

I was speaking from experience as well....

And about what is being taught, not conversations she has.

First of all, your witnessesing to your students is awesome, whether by example or words. I am sure you have a wonderful influence on your students.

Second, I do not believe a secular education is evil, but I don't believe it is God honoring either. The purpose of education, in my opinion, is to help us understand God, which enables us to love Him and obey His commandments. How can any education help us to understand God if we separate the subject from the Creator?

Indoctrinate in your church and home. School is for reality based education.