So basically, Orthodox Greece and Islamic Turkey persecute evangelical Christians? Good to know.

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Since 2020, more than 350 foreign Christian workers and their family members have been expelled from Turkey, including at least 35 cases between December 2024 and January 2025, reported the ADF.

According to the international watchdog, Turkey's Ministry of Interior has assigned the individuals targeted by Ankara "security codes," like as N-82 and G-87, which effectively bars them from ever re-entering the country as it classifies them as a national security threat.

Rieder also reminded the OSCE conference of the "landmark case" Wiest v. Turkey, which is currently before the European Court of Human Rights, and is "expected to set a crucial precedent for the protection of religious freedom in Europe and beyond."

Kenneth Wiest, a U.S. citizen and a Protestant, was born, raised and then resided legally in Turkey with his wife and three children for over 30 years before he was banned from the country in 2019 upon returning from a trip "without evidence of wrongdoing."

His case is just the latest in what is increasingly viewed as discriminatory policies that persecute religious minorities since President Recep Tayyip Erdoan took office more than a decade ago.
https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-deports-peaceful-christians-under-guise-national-security-claims-watchdog

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Of course, Turkey is also cracking down on Orthodox Christians:

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11/18/2022 Turkey (International Christian Concern) On 11/15/2022, the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) declared that Turkey had violated the human right of the Greek Orthodox Taksiarhis church after denying them the ability to register for property. The church has a long history in Turkey and is one of the foundations under Turkey's law of the Greek Orthodox Community of Istanbul. As a result, the ECHR declared this as discrimination and ordered Turkey to pay a fine of 5,000 euros.
The stark contrast between the previous population of over 1.8 million Greeks just over a century ago, to today's population of a few thousand shows the level of persecution and discrimination they have faced over the years. The foundational churches began their struggle to stay active in today's modern political climate of Turkey. The Greek Orthodox Taksiarhis church's inability to register their church is a prime example of the hardships these communities face here.
According to the Report: Turkey Challenges facing Christians 2016-2020 published by ICC, states the following:
"Turkey has an obligation under national and international law to uphold Freedom of Religion or Belief (FoRB). The authorities must provide a legal framework to accommodate religious minorities and develop a national narrative that promotes social cohesion. Given the new executive powers of Turkey's president, the position holds the necessary authority to make needed changes to the legal framework which protects religious minorities. This obligation for religious freedom extends to those territories under Turkish military control."
https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-deports-peaceful-christians-under-guise-national-security-claims-watchdog

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So that treaty is not working out very well. Of course, Greece has turned to Israel to help meet some of its legitimate security concerns and need for advanced anti-missile weaponry.

So now you have moved the goal post to Turkey and Israel.

As a Dispensationalist shouldn't you be happy to see Christian Countries ally with Israel?

You make no sense…

You can't be a real person.

Zobel said:

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"i want freedom of religion so my society can spiral into secularism"

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So you prefer a mandated religion? That's always worked out well.

UTExan said:

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Vox Clamantis said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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UTExan said:

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And we know that the Eastern Orthodox persecute evangelicals, Baptists and Pentecostals in some Eastern European countries:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/2024/12/divided-balkans-evangelicals-tiny-number-mighty/

But in the end, it doesn't matter:

Devon Dampier wearing a Jesus Won shirt pic.twitter.com/tizJ2TiJkw

— Joe Coles (@JoeAColes) September 13, 2026

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No one but you is trying to convince any one contrary to that.

ALL PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS have historically persecuted people for all sorts of reasons

You're the only one trying to hype your sides people as the paragon of virtue and victims.

My faith and members of my Church is full of sinners and all the things that come with it. I'm not sure that rejecting or not accepting American heresies is persecution.

Have they been executing people? I didn't read your propaganda article from the site you linked. It's not journalism.



That said:

American Evangelicals often go uninvited into historic Orthodox lands with Western donor money, treat nations that held the faith through centuries of Ottoman subjugation and Communist firing squads like unevangelized pagan territory, and then cry "persecution" when local communities reject goofy American born foreign proselytizers with a belief system they only recognize as marginally Christian.

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This x a million. The level of patronizing is off the chart, Grace Cowboy Church will take a mission trip to distribute Sportsman's bibles in a region that has been practicing Christianity since 37 AD.

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Then why does the government of Orthodox Greece make it a crime to proselytize?

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Because they've seen the fruits of Protestantism.

No, but I think a state religion is fine. You don't have to follow it, but others don't get preference and can potentially be outlawed because dangerous.

You know like we had for the vast majority of Christendom and when our nation was founded.

Zobel said:

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You know like we had for the vast majority of Christendom and when our nation was founded.

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You think we had a "state religion" when our country was founded?

And you really want it to be Protestantism? I have to admit, I'm surprised.

In ten of the 13 colonies, yes.

Man our founding fathers were so unfathomably based I'd be down with that version of Anglicanism.

Zobel said:

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Man our founding fathers were so unfathomably based I'd be down with that version of Anglicanism.

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We'd welcome you!

Vox Clamantis said:

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UTExan said:

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Vox Clamantis said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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UTExan said:

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And we know that the Eastern Orthodox persecute evangelicals, Baptists and Pentecostals in some Eastern European countries:
https://www.christianitytoday.com/2024/12/divided-balkans-evangelicals-tiny-number-mighty/

But in the end, it doesn't matter:

Devon Dampier wearing a Jesus Won shirt pic.twitter.com/tizJ2TiJkw

— Joe Coles (@JoeAColes) September 13, 2026

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No one but you is trying to convince any one contrary to that.

ALL PEOPLE OF ALL FAITHS have historically persecuted people for all sorts of reasons

You're the only one trying to hype your sides people as the paragon of virtue and victims.

My faith and members of my Church is full of sinners and all the things that come with it. I'm not sure that rejecting or not accepting American heresies is persecution.

Have they been executing people? I didn't read your propaganda article from the site you linked. It's not journalism.



That said:

American Evangelicals often go uninvited into historic Orthodox lands with Western donor money, treat nations that held the faith through centuries of Ottoman subjugation and Communist firing squads like unevangelized pagan territory, and then cry "persecution" when local communities reject goofy American born foreign proselytizers with a belief system they only recognize as marginally Christian.

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This x a million. The level of patronizing is off the chart, Grace Cowboy Church will take a mission trip to distribute Sportsman's bibles in a region that has been practicing Christianity since 37 AD.

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Then why does the government of Orthodox Greece make it a crime to proselytize?

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Because they've seen the fruits of Protestantism.

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The horror!
The most prosperous, powerful nation on earth ( the US ) mostly formed by Protestants, governed by Protestants and made wealthy by Protestant businessfolk. 60-65% Protestant from 1865 to 1900, with 80-85% of regular churchgoers identifying as Protestant. https://www.vpm.org/npr-news/2006-03-21/excerpt-american-theocracy/
We are happy to be that safe haven for the refugees from Catholic and Orthodox lands riven by ethnic and religious strife where they may thrive and live peacefully.
Even today, the misgovernance of and lack of opportunity in predominantly Catholic countries is indicated by the high illegal immigration rates from those countries.

Zobel said:

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No thanks, modern Anglicanism is like the poster child for the problem, full on globohomo.

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You're demonstrating your lack of knowledge. Most of American Anglicanism is the opposite.

CrackerJackAg said:

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KingofHazor said:

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Zobel said:

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You know like we had for the vast majority of Christendom and when our nation was founded.

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You think we had a "state religion" when our country was founded?

And you really want it to be Protestantism? I have to admit, I'm surprised.

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I'm holding out for a Byzantine Emperor;-)

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Why? To call on Western Europe for help?

"most" is the key word there, and the problem.

UTExan said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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KingofHazor said:

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Zobel said:

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You know like we had for the vast majority of Christendom and when our nation was founded.

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You think we had a "state religion" when our country was founded?

And you really want it to be Protestantism? I have to admit, I'm surprised.

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I'm holding out for a Byzantine Emperor;-)

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Why? To call on Western Europe for help?

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Dumb….

Not engaging with you anymore.

Just for clarification, are you separating American Anglicanism from Episcopalianism?

CrackerJackAg said:

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UTExan said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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KingofHazor said:

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Zobel said:

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You know like we had for the vast majority of Christendom and when our nation was founded.

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You think we had a "state religion" when our country was founded?

And you really want it to be Protestantism? I have to admit, I'm surprised.

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I'm holding out for a Byzantine Emperor;-)

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Why? To call on Western Europe for help?

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Dumb….

Not engaging with you anymore.

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Well, as St. Cleopa of Sihastria would say, "May Heaven consume you!" as a parting benediction to this discussion.

TeddyAg0422 said:

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Just for clarification, are you separating American Anglicanism from Episcopalianism?

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Absolutely.

Much of current American Anglicanism is theologically conservative Episcopalians who grew disgusted with the Episcopal church and left. Another big bunch of current Anglicans are people who spent years in evangelical mega-Churches and wanted something more and deeper.

My Anglican church is a mix of both, with a few refugees from liberal Methodist churches thrown in.

Got it, good deal. Thanks for the response

KingofHazor said:

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Protestant Christianity is all about literacy (read your personal Bible!) and intellectual understanding to be saved, but how does this work with old people who are confused, young kids who can't read, or people who are too dumb to grasp even basic concepts?

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That sounds like a liberal Democrat wrote that. "Everybody is stupid so they need me or people like me to make decisions for them."

Your caricature of Protestant Christianity is wrong, dead wrong. You ignore all of the Protestants and Protestant leaders who have focused on a deep spiritual walk with God. As an example, it is simply silly to describe Protestants such as Wesley or Whitfield as being "all about . . . intellectual understanding". To the contrary, the lack of focus on intellectual matters has been a failing of Protestantism.

Why do you think that literacy exploded in NW Europe and England immediately after the Reformation? It was so that people could read their Bibles. It was Protestant churches that pioneered Sunday Schools for the explicit purpose of teaching the illiterate, especially children, to read.

Ya'll complain about the inaccurate caricatures of the RCC and the EO by Protestants, but then immediately turn around and do the same to Protestants.

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Which was the entire point of my starting this thread. The unexamined, unchallenged assumptions of Protestants in general by RCC and EO forum folks is astounding to me.

Zobel said:

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Yes, the RCC and Orthodox people on this forum who have spent their entire lives in a deeply culturally Protestant society, and many of whom were raised in various Protestant sects have completely unfounded opinions about the topic. This seems entirely plausible.

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But y'all seem to extrapolate from your limited experiences in a Southern Baptist Church in a small Texas town to all of Protestantism.

Y'all's points about Protestantism frequently display a lack of knowledge of its breadth and depth.

Zobel said:

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Yes, the RCC and Orthodox people on this forum who have spent their entire lives in a deeply culturally Protestant society, and many of whom were raised in various Protestant sects have completely unfounded opinions about the topic. This seems entirely plausible.

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Then those sects must have failed to teach about the evangelicals in the Church of England being responsible for ending the slave trade. Or the second Great Awakening in this country.

KingofHazor said:

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Quote:

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Protestant Christianity is all about literacy (read your personal Bible!) and intellectual understanding to be saved, but how does this work with old people who are confused, young kids who can't read, or people who are too dumb to grasp even basic concepts?

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That sounds like a liberal Democrat wrote that. "Everybody is stupid so they need me or people like me to make decisions for them."

Your caricature of Protestant Christianity is wrong, dead wrong. You ignore all of the Protestants and Protestant leaders who have focused on a deep spiritual walk with God. As an example, it is simply silly to describe Protestants such as Wesley or Whitfield as being "all about . . . intellectual understanding". To the contrary, the lack of focus on intellectual matters has been a failing of Protestantism.

Why do you think that literacy exploded in NW Europe and England immediately after the Reformation? It was so that people could read their Bibles. It was Protestant churches that pioneered Sunday Schools for the explicit purpose of teaching the illiterate, especially children, to read.

Ya'll complain about the inaccurate caricatures of the RCC and the EO by Protestants, but then immediately turn around and do the same to Protestants.

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I think "intellectual" is being used in two different ways here...

In my original point, "intellectual" means something like textual/cognitive. So this would be spirituality mediated mainly thru reading, hearing, interpreting, and thinking about words and texts.

You use "intellectual" to mean theologically sophisticated which is fine (and I agree with you) but that's a different discussion. I don't want to get caught up in semantics so for clarity I'll rename my use of intellectual as 'textual/cognitive'.

My point isn't that Protestants believe that unintelligent people can't be saved or that Protestants aren't spiritual. The point is that the spirituality is funneled through a much narrower channel which is heavily textual/cognitive: The service itself is centered on the sermon, and in personal life the spiritual focus is more heavily on reading of scripture, Bible studies, reading commentaries, etc. I don't think this is controversial.

In Catholicism and Orthodoxy, those things also exist and are good but there's a much wider range of practices that are bodily, material, communal, ascetic, and ritual: fasting together, feast days, processions, visiting monasteries and meeting monks/nuns, having spiritual elders and prayer rules, pilgrimage to holy sites, venerating icons or the Cross, lighting candles, using prayer ropes or rosaries, receiving holy water, house blessings, relics, prostrations, daily services, communal meals connected to the liturgical calendar, and so forth.

We have a mentally *disabled* young man in our parish who can participate in all of these things. He'll never be reading scripture or Bible commentaries, and in a chruch setting where those things are the main spiritual path, he is left out.

So that's the actual comparison. It isn't "Protestants think too much" and "Catholics and Orthodox don't think." It's that Protestantism has discarded most of the the non-textual forms of devotion and concentrated Christian practice more heavily into textual and cognitive channels. Is this even debatable??

Your point about Protestant literacy is the exact point I'm making. There had to be an enormous effort to teach people to read because of how central the textual mode had become.

And before you say it, yes, high church Anglicans and Lutherans are the exception and are kind of halfway between RCC and Protestant. But they help clarify the pattern. As Protestant denominations moved further away from the RCC they retained less and less of that inheritance.