This. If ICE agents break the law, take them to court. The last time I checked the Democrats were in no shortage of lawyers.

In the meantime, stop encouraging your radicals to obstruct justice. They might get shot, and it might be legally justified to do so. Avoid the confrontation.

Silent For Too Long said:

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This. If ICE agents break the law, take them to court. The last time I checked the Democrats were in no shortage of lawyers.

In the meantime, stop encouraging your radicals to obstruct justice. They might get shot, and it might be legally justified to do so. Avoid the confrontation.

---

And with cell phones ability to film everything, you have to be biased or incredibly naive to think if this was a widespread deal, it would be everywhere.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Psalm%2037&version=KJV

Read the 37th Psalm.

Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

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What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

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Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

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What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

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That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

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Don't fight the hypothetical. If that's the alternative, then what should we do?

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Good luck getting him to provide an answer.

Severian the Torturer said:

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All this crap is the result of the "punch Nazis" superhero drug that makes liberals think they can really just do whatever they want if they feel their cause is righteous.

Change what this guy does to the Dixie chicken on Friday night. Cops are walking around checking for drunks, and this dude takes exception to them and decides he has the moral right to intervene. He'd absolutely get tuned up and if he was a threat shot; and no one would care

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I've wondered, if the Renee Good incident happened in Texas, and the driver survived, and the ICE agent was a on-duty licensed police officer, would an Ag Assault charge hold up against the driver ?

Damn right it would

Bob Lee said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

---

What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

---

Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

---

What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

---

That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

---

Don't fight the hypothetical. If that's the alternative, then what should we do?

---

In you imagined hypothetical it could be justified to stop a complete non legal invasion with no other recourse.


No let's do the other hypothetical. You know the one that matches reality. What if it isn't absolutely the only way for enforcement to work.

Just did, now you try

dermdoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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https://ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2025/11/19/video-shows-ice-agents-pointing-guns--forcing-entry-into-queens-home

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Lots of holes in that video. But if I talk about it, does it matter to you?

We have no idea how long the ICE folks were outside the residence. I could not tell whether they had a warrant or not. Watching the video, I think the comments about terrorizing the occupants were over the top dramatic.

That being said, if the ICE folks messed up, fire them. Charge them. I am sure if there was concrete evident a lawyer would go after them.

And if this was widespread, do you really think the media would not be blasting it from the heavens?

I assume you are as biased as I am

---

m
There is another one in the link sent. And I sent you a link of ICE trying to change established policy. The media sure did blast that out. So you agree if the reports of the video and the people do pan out and any apparent holes are just that. They should be prosecuted? Congrats.

I asked if you cared because as you can see from other responses plenty of social conservatives dont.

Aggrad08 said:

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dermdoc said:

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Aggrad08 said:

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https://ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2025/11/19/video-shows-ice-agents-pointing-guns--forcing-entry-into-queens-home

---

Lots of holes in that video. But if I talk about it, does it matter to you?

We have no idea how long the ICE folks were outside the residence. I could not tell whether they had a warrant or not. Watching the video, I think the comments about terrorizing the occupants were over the top dramatic.

That being said, if the ICE folks messed up, fire them. Charge them. I am sure if there was concrete evident a lawyer would go after them.

And if this was widespread, do you really think the media would not be blasting it from the heavens?

I assume you are as biased as I am

---

m
There is another one in the link sent. And I sent you a link of ICE trying to change established policy. The media sure did blast that out. So you agree if the reports of the video and the people do pan out and any apparent holes are just that. They should be prosecuted? Congrats.

I asked if you cared because as you can see from other responses plenty of social conservatives dont.

---

Fire them then. But this can not be widespread or it would be everywhere. Agree?

Take all the emotions and politics out of it. Should American taxpayers subsidize illegal aliens? That is what this is about.

And now I am the once claiming to be on the side of the Constitution.

Aggrad08 said:

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Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

---

What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

---

Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

---

What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

---

That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

---

Don't fight the hypothetical. If that's the alternative, then what should we do?

---

In you imagined hypothetical it could be justified to stop a complete non legal invasion with no other recourse.


No let's do the other hypothetical. You know the one that matches reality. What if it isn't absolutely the only way for enforcement to work.

---

If it's not the only way, then it's not the only way. I wouldn't grant you that people's rights are being trampled. I don't think you've shown any evidence of that. What would be some indicators to you that a US city has been conquered by foreigners?

So let's look at this whole Constitutional stuff. We have non citizen law breakers taking American tax payer's money. That is definitely non Constitutional.

We possibly have ICE agents not producing warrants at an American citizens house. Which is also non Constitutional in my mind.

Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows if this was widespread it would be all over the media. It is not. If needed, fire the rogue ICE agents but continue to throw out illegal aliens who are taking American tax payer money which I believe is unconstitutional.

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

What if the property is owned by a US citizen?

---

What if we just arrest and deport illegal immigrants wherever they are?

---

Same answer to "what if we just arrest any other type of criminals wherever they are" We will end up with innocent people with their rights trampled.

---

What if the alternative to that is that entire cities will be displaced by communities of immigrants from the 3rd world who would impose their wills on the rest of us without regard for the constitution? Are anyone's rights being trampled if that happens?

---

That appears to me to be total reality trump fan fiction. Can you explain how exactly following longstanding rules makes enforcement impossible? I'm not asking for ICE agents to be only allowed paper handcuffs here

---

Don't fight the hypothetical. If that's the alternative, then what should we do?

---

In you imagined hypothetical it could be justified to stop a complete non legal invasion with no other recourse.


No let's do the other hypothetical. You know the one that matches reality. What if it isn't absolutely the only way for enforcement to work.

---

If it's not the only way, then it's not the only way. I wouldn't grant you that people's rights are being trampled. I don't think you've shown any evidence of that. What would be some indicators to you that a US city has been conquered by foreigners?

---

If American citizen's rights were being trampled, it would be screamed from the highest mountain.

dermdoc said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

https://ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2025/11/19/video-shows-ice-agents-pointing-guns--forcing-entry-into-queens-home

---

Lots of holes in that video. But if I talk about it, does it matter to you?

We have no idea how long the ICE folks were outside the residence. I could not tell whether they had a warrant or not. Watching the video, I think the comments about terrorizing the occupants were over the top dramatic.

That being said, if the ICE folks messed up, fire them. Charge them. I am sure if there was concrete evident a lawyer would go after them.

And if this was widespread, do you really think the media would not be blasting it from the heavens?

I assume you are as biased as I am

---

m
There is another one in the link sent. And I sent you a link of ICE trying to change established policy. The media sure did blast that out. So you agree if the reports of the video and the people do pan out and any apparent holes are just that. They should be prosecuted? Congrats.

I asked if you cared because as you can see from other responses plenty of social conservatives dont.

---

Fire them then. But this can not be widespread or it would be everywhere. Agree?

Take all the emotions and politics out of it. Should American taxpayers subsidize illegal aliens? That is what this is about.

And now I am the once claiming to be on the side of the Constitution.

---

I don't. If they didn't want it to be a norm why the attempt at policy change? I already stated I'm fine with deporting. So no it's not about that try again.

If you actually think we should throw out bad ice agents and not change ice policy we don't disagree here

Aggrad08 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Aggrad08 said:

---

https://ny1.com/nyc/queens/news/2025/11/19/video-shows-ice-agents-pointing-guns--forcing-entry-into-queens-home

---

Lots of holes in that video. But if I talk about it, does it matter to you?

We have no idea how long the ICE folks were outside the residence. I could not tell whether they had a warrant or not. Watching the video, I think the comments about terrorizing the occupants were over the top dramatic.

That being said, if the ICE folks messed up, fire them. Charge them. I am sure if there was concrete evident a lawyer would go after them.

And if this was widespread, do you really think the media would not be blasting it from the heavens?

I assume you are as biased as I am

---

m
There is another one in the link sent. And I sent you a link of ICE trying to change established policy. The media sure did blast that out. So you agree if the reports of the video and the people do pan out and any apparent holes are just that. They should be prosecuted? Congrats.

I asked if you cared because as you can see from other responses plenty of social conservatives dont.

---

Fire them then. But this can not be widespread or it would be everywhere. Agree?

Take all the emotions and politics out of it. Should American taxpayers subsidize illegal aliens? That is what this is about.

And now I am the once claiming to be on the side of the Constitution.

---

I don't. If they didn't want it to be a norm why the attempt at policy change? I already stated I'm fine with deporting. So no it's not about that try again.

If you actually think we should throw out bad ice agents and not change ice policy we don't disagree here

---

Got it. And I agree.

Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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Silent For Too Long said:

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Your time to be angry was when the people you voted for let in 15 million illegals in an outrageous attempt to cement permanent political power.

You can't go take a dump in someone else's living room then ***** about how they choose to clean it up.

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Ignoring the idiotic conspiracy theory, do federal agents have an obligation to follow the Constitution?

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I love how Sapper try's to waive away well established facts by calling them "idiotic conspiracy theories."

Please educate me professor, why did the Biden administration open up the floodgates on immigration if it wasn't to increase political power? What do you think their reasoning was? I'm all ears.

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Assuming they did "open up the floodgates" is a conspiracy theory, unless you just hate immigrants so much that any immigration to you is "opening the floodgates." We are a nation of immigrants and were built on immigration. It's not inherently bad, nor can you point to immigrants as politically cohesive for one party or the other. This idea that immigration so done to "increase political power" means you're either in the 1850s and a Know-Nothing, or just being xenophobic.

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Boarder crossings sky rocketed the first 3 years of Biden's Administratoon and then magically went down in the election year when the political ramifications of them became insurmountable. That's not a conspiracy theory Sap, it's an easily verifiable fact.

You are just being strangely obtuse with the rest. It is very well documented that Democrats flipped California from a very purple state to a deeply blue state via immigration and amnesty. Again, when Bush and Rove were trying to pass amnesty, it is widely acknowledged by both sides they were doing it to increase political power.

You are lumping very specific immigration events into all immigration in an underhanded way to obfuscate the point. I know you are smart enough to know what you are doing. I think you know as well as I do why the Biden admin was doing what they were doing, but your cognitive dissonance is going haywire because you just gotta defend Team Blue at all costs.

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I agree. The Democrats are blatantly in support of manipulating the country's demographics for their political advantage.

If illegal immigrants voted Republican, Obama/Biden would have built a hundred-foot wall along the entire border. Maybe a minefield too.

Illegal immigrants can't vote

schmendeler said:

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Illegal immigrants can't vote

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Not legally. Of course they shouldn't be here in the first place....legally.

However, if given amnesty....they most certainly do vote. Are you going argue the Democrats haven't been openly pushing for amnesty?

Both 'sides' here have plenty of dirt on their hands. And nothing good will come of this because even smart people have taken the political bait from their 'side' and swallowed it whole. None of our leaders want to solve the problem - they want us doing what we are doing on this thread - pointing our fingers at each other.

kurt vonnegut said:

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Both 'sides' here have plenty of dirt on their hands. And nothing good will come of this because even smart people have taken the political bait from their 'side' and swallowed it whole. None of our leaders want to solve the problem - they want us doing what we are doing on this thread - pointing our fingers at each other.

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I think this is a fair point. I can tell you for absolute certainty this is being discussed within the right.

I don't see anyone on the left calling out the radicals on their side. These protests are literally being organized by the Marxists, Socialists, and most extreme members of the Left, and their political leaders are dumping fuel on the fire.

kurt vonnegut said:

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Both 'sides' here have plenty of dirt on their hands. And nothing good will come of this because even smart people have taken the political bait from their 'side' and swallowed it whole. None of our leaders want to solve the problem - they want us doing what we are doing on this thread - pointing our fingers at each other.

---

It is so strange to live through the last 30 years as a non-partisan person. The narrative on each side changes daily and sometimes does a complete 180 before doing another 180 and then another one. The only thing both sides can agree on is that the other is the very definition of evil and has pushed things too far, and now it is their turn to escalate even further. People are swallowing all this violent rhetoric whole, and it has resulted in the deaths of innocent people. Instead of that being a wake up call to everyone involved, all that happens is everyone gets even madder.

The man that was murdered Saturday was a nurse at the VA hospital. Hardly a Marxist extremist.

"Oopsie"

schmendeler said:

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The man that was murdered Saturday was a nurse at the VA hospital. Hardly a Marxist extremist.

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This is terrible, was he killed by a black guy? 88% of Minneapolis known murderers are black.