Presidential Election

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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 3:55a, 10/24/24
Says the guy who takes the words of the neocon warmongers as gospel when they bash Trump...

The very same people YOU have been bashing on this forum for 20 years (and rightly so, many of us were blinded by partisanship in our support of these despicable cretins...it's just positively shocking to me when you of all people know how evil Cheney, Bolton and their ilk are but it doesn't set off alarms in your head when they hitch their wagon to the DNC right along with basically every other corrupt, crony capitalist oligarch in this country).
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nortex97
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4:31a, 10/24/24
AG




Caution, NSFW language.

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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 8:22a, 10/24/24
Silent For Too Long said:
Says the guy who takes the words of the neocon warmongers as gospel when they bash Trump...

The very same people YOU have been bashing on this forum for 20 years (and rightly so, many of us were blinded by partisanship in our support of these despicable cretins...it's just positively shocking to me when you of all people know how evil Cheney, Bolton and their ilk are but it doesn't set off alarms in your head when they hitch their wagon to the DNC right along with basically every other corrupt, crony capitalist oligarch in this country).


When you have dozens of people who worked for the guy, and multiple generals who have served the country honorably for decades saying the exact same kinds of things, it starts to sound plausible. But no, keep believing the guy known to cheat at business, golf, and on his wives.
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Tswizsle
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 8:55a, 10/24/24
Sapper Redux said:
Silent For Too Long said:
Says the guy who takes the words of the neocon warmongers as gospel when they bash Trump...

The very same people YOU have been bashing on this forum for 20 years (and rightly so, many of us were blinded by partisanship in our support of these despicable cretins...it's just positively shocking to me when you of all people know how evil Cheney, Bolton and their ilk are but it doesn't set off alarms in your head when they hitch their wagon to the DNC right along with basically every other corrupt, crony capitalist oligarch in this country).


When you have dozens of people who worked for the guy, and multiple generals who have served the country honorably for decades saying the exact same kinds of things, it starts to sound plausible. But no, keep believing the guy known to cheat at business, golf, and on his wives.
you probably think JFK was a good POTUS and MLK was a good man
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PabloSerna
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9:06a, 10/24/24
AG
Isn't that like saying, "you probably think Hitler was misunderstood" - makes no sense.
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
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Rongagin71
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In reply to PabloSerna • 9:29a, 10/24/24
AG
PabloSerna said:
Isn't that like saying, "you probably think Hitler was misunderstood" - makes no sense.
Trump is not perfect, but it's not fair to say he is a Fascist -
or seriously in the same league as Hitler who killed 12million.
The record of what he actually did as President is acceptable,
certainly better than Biden's multiple screw ups.

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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Rongagin71 • 10:07a, 10/24/24
AG
Quote:
Trump is not perfect, but it's not fair to say he is a Fascist -

or seriously in the same league as Hitler who killed 12million.
This is a defense I hear often. And it's very flawed.

It's perfectly fair to call him a fascist. He checks so many of the boxes.

Is he literally Hitler? No. But the fallacy in your statement is you are trying to make a perfect comparison. No comparison is ever perfect.

You do not need to be shipping thousands of people to camps in order to be a fascist.
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 10:18a, 10/24/24
Bro, you've been asked multiple times to name specifics on what makes him a fascist and have failed to deliver a single one.

One more time. What boxes are you talking about?
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 10:23a, 10/24/24
You judge a tree by the fruit it bares, homie.

Trumps tree bared the best economy in 50 years, the most peaceful 4 years since Hubert Humphrey, and a secure border.

It also bared the fruit of every corrupt deep state actor coming out of the woodwork to show their true colors. Are you gonna try to gaslight the board now that 51 high ranking intelligence officials didn't actually tell a bold faced lie to the American people, and colude with the media and Big Tech, to get their pedophile dementia ridden puppet in chief into office?
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 10:32a, 10/24/24
Also, please answer the question without obfuscating.

Does it really, really not bother you just a little that Cheney has switched sides? The guy has so much blood on his hands, blood you personally saw with your own eyes.

Be honest with yourself buddy.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 10:43a, 10/24/24
Silent For Too Long said:
You judge a tree by the fruit it bares, homie.

Trumps tree bared the best economy in 50 years, the most peaceful 4 years since Hubert Humphrey, and a secure border.

It also bared the fruit of every corrupt deep state actor coming out of the woodwork to show their true colors. Are you gonna try to gaslight the board now that 51 high ranking intelligence officials didn't actually tell a bold faced lie to the American people, and colude with the media and Big Tech, to get their pedophile dementia ridden puppet in chief into office?


The economy was great when Trump came into office. What did it look like when he left? Peaceful? We were still in Afghanistan and Russia was ramping up in Ukraine and Syria while North Korea and Iran kept developing their nuclear programs. A secure border? Really? Deaths from fentanyl climbed significantly during his administration and have only plateaued and begun to come down recently.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 10:44a, 10/24/24
Silent For Too Long said:
Also, please answer the question without obfuscating.

Does it really, really not bother you just a little that Cheney has switched sides? The guy has so much blood on his hands, blood you personally saw with your own eyes.

Be honest with yourself buddy.


I'm no fan of Cheney. At all. Trump is worse.
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nortex97
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 10:51a, 10/24/24
AG
Nevermind, LOL.
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Rongagin71
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 11:06a, 10/24/24
AG
barbacoa taco said:
Quote:
Trump is not perfect, but it's not fair to say he is a Fascist -

or seriously in the same league as Hitler who killed 12million.
This is a defense I hear often. And it's very flawed.

It's perfectly fair to call him a fascist. He checks so many of the boxes.

Is he literally Hitler? No. But the fallacy in your statement is you are trying to make a perfect comparison. No comparison is ever perfect.

You do not need to be shipping thousands of people to camps in order to be a fascist.
It's also possible to ship thousands of people to camps as part of a legal enforcement of needed deportation WITHOUT being a Fascist.
Of course, I expect that the actual deportations will be limited to criminals, but even that may not be allowed by the inevitable lawsuits from the left.
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Sapper Redux
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In reply to Rongagin71 • 11:10a, 10/24/24
He's said he wants to deport millions, deny birthright citizenship, and doesn't care if he separates families again. But sure, just assume there's no threat of REAL violence inherent in his administration.
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Zobel
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11:18a, 10/24/24
AG
The Biden administration deported 1.1 million people from 2021-Feb 2024 which is on pace to match the four years of the Trump administration at 1.5 million. Undoubtedly some of these separated families.

Deporting millions of people and separating families is status quo.
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Silent For Too Long
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11:40a, 10/24/24
This was in my Bible reading today and seemed way to pertinent to the conversation not to share.

2 Timothy 3:1-7 NIV:

Quote:
3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

6 They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over gullible women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, 7 always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


Wow.

That describes the modern Democrat party to the T. Particularly versus 6 and 7. That is a perfect description of their largest and most dedicated voting block.

In before Sapper "well acccccktuallly Paul didn't write 2 Timothy so there!" We all know it's coming .
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 11:49a, 10/24/24
Quote:
The economy was great when Trump came into office. What did it look like when he left?


Dude, this is exactly the kind of rhetoric that leads me to be deeply concerned about you. You are better then this. You know damn well what a duplicitous thing that was to say.

Stop lying. It's damnig your soul.

Quote:

Peaceful? We were still in Afghanistan and Russia was ramping up in Ukraine and Syria while North Korea and Iran kept developing their nuclear programs.


Again, you are better then this. Trump played the ground work for American withdrawal. It really doesn't matter what other countries may or may not have been "ramping up," the point is The Trump Administration was obviouy deescalating our military involvement. It's the exact reason he pissed off the Neocons and MIC so much.

Also, Trump cut the Iranian funding.
Quote:

A secure border? Really? Deaths from fentanyl climbed significantly during his administration and have only plateaued and begun to come down recently.


Stop with your lies Sap. I'm begging you. You are better then this. Not a single honest human being would say the border is more secure under Biden then Trump. You know for an absolute fact that's a bold faced lie.
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Silent For Too Long
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12:03p, 10/24/24
Quote:
I'm no fan of Cheney. At all. Trump is worse


Really? Did you really just type this? The guy who cut your taxes and deescalated our global military involvement is WORSE then the guy who sent your fellow soldiers to die on a bed of lies so him and his fellow cronies in the MIC could fatten their bank accounts?

Good God man, and I say this with nothing but love for you. Pull your head out of your rear.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 1:02p, 10/24/24
AG
Silent For Too Long said:
Bro, you've been asked multiple times to name specifics on what makes him a fascist and have failed to deliver a single one.

One more time. What boxes are you talking about?
Trump is very authoritarian and exhibits common fascist traits such as:

1) Rampant nationalism - putting forth a version of pseudo patriotism in which he makes himself out to be a hero to the country and any dissent against him is painted as anti-patriotism. And he's intertwined it with Christianity, making himself out to be a godlike figure and implying that Christianity and support of him go hand in hand. Ahem, would you like to buy a Trump autographed Bible?

2) Stoking hatred against a common enemy - he talks about his opponents as the "enemy within" and talks about how he is on a revenge campaign against them. He is clearly talking about liberals. people keep trying to downplay this as his typical hyperbole but those people are in DENIAL.

3) Scapegoating - In addition to talking about certain groups of people as an enemy of the country (the press, trans people, immigrants from poor countries), and blames them for a lot of the country's problems

4) Destruction of laws and norms when it's not convenient for him - He tried to overthrow an election he lost. Full stop. No, he didn't tell them to "peacefully protest." He stoked rage and fomented a lie about how he "won" the election when he knew he didn't. He actively attempted to overthrow the results of the election by disrupting a constitutionally prescribed process of counting votes and tried to send false electors for states he lost. Any rationalization of all this as a "good faith dispute' over the election is a lie. He's also called to suspend the constitution.

Oh also, he does not believe in free speech. He sues people for making jokes about him and wants to open up libel laws to prosecute media companies for writing mean things about him.


I fully expect you to move the goalposts and say that none of this is really fascism because it's not a perfect comparison with Nazi Germany. But no matter how much you try to rationalize this, he is a fascist. A lot of the party is fascist right now, and I have a huge problem with it.

I understand the unwillingness to come to terms with this, because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 1:04p, 10/24/24
AG
Silent For Too Long said:
Quote:
I'm no fan of Cheney. At all. Trump is worse


Really? Did you really just type this? The guy who cut your taxes and deescalated our global military involvement is WORSE then the guy who sent your fellow soldiers to die on a bed of lies so him and his fellow cronies in the MIC could fatten their bank accounts?

Good God man, and I say this with nothing but love for you. Pull your head out of your rear.
As far as damage and suffering he caused, Cheney is worse, no contest. Which is why Kamala should keep her distance from him.

Having said that, the notion that Trump is pro-peace and anti-war is a myth.
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nortex97
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 1:14p, 10/24/24
AG
Quote:
Having said that, the notion that Trump is pro-peace and anti-war is a myth.
LOL, on what basis? I'd like to think RFK Jr's take (and Tulsi gabbard) warrants more consideration than abstract innuendo, given her endorsement by Cheneys, Bolton et al.



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nortex97
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In reply to Zobel • 1:17p, 10/24/24
AG
Zobel said:
The Biden administration deported 1.1 million people from 2021-Feb 2024 which is on pace to match the four years of the Trump administration at 1.5 million. Undoubtedly some of these separated families.

Deporting millions of people and separating families is status quo.
Human (including child) trafficking (and attendant revenues to violent drug gangs/cartels) into the US has skyrocketed though under the Biden-Harris administration, so absolute deportation numbers don't reflect the scale of suffering/events/people. Surely you recognize this, right?
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Zobel
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In reply to nortex97 • 1:38p, 10/24/24
AG
I was responding to the claim that Trump wants to deport millions, as if that is some new concept.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to nortex97 • 2:13p, 10/24/24
AG
Trump can only say he did not start any new wars. That's literally it.

He lied about being against the Iraq war when he was in favor of it from the beginning, he dramatically increased drone strikes, he literally committed an act of war by assassinating an Iranian general and we should consider ourselves lucky that didn't spark a war, he was obstructive on diplomacy regarding nuclear weapons, he pardoned actual war criminals convicted of very serious crimes, he spoke out in favor of going to war against Mexican cartels, and he has criticized Biden for "holding Bibi back" and has been very outspoken about supporting Israel in a wider war in the ME and against Iran.

Trump is just as hawkish as his GOP predecessors. He lies about being the anti-war candidate.
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nortex97
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 2:35p, 10/24/24
AG
He 'can only say that' because it's factually true. There's a reason Arabs in Michigan are breaking to him, and you can listen/read for yourself why that is. He didn't just lie to folks like RFK or Tulsi to get their endorsement.





Tiffany Trump's father in law is apparently Lebanese, not sure of his name:


Heck, even Ben Rhodes (!!) admits that with a broad brush Democrats are constantly defending the forever/permanent wars:
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PabloSerna
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2:46p, 10/24/24
AG
What happened with making Mexico pay for the wall?
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
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Silent For Too Long
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3:02p, 10/24/24
Quote:
1) Rampant nationalism


Deceitful spin. He's pro legal immigration. Two of his biggest allied are a legal immigrant, the son of a legal immigrant, and the husband of a legal immigrant.

There's nothing wrong in believing in American values. Both parties use to...

Quote:
2) Stoking hatred against a common enemy


Literally Hitler. Deplorables. "White Christian Nationalists" boogeyman.

Stop. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

Furthermore, people who utilizes their positions in government to persecute political enemies ARE the enemy within and need to be stopped. Being against actual corruption doesn't magically make you a fascist.
Quote:

3) Scapegoating


Your party has been in power for 12 of the last 16 years about literally everything wrong with the country is "Trump's fault."

Tell me more about this scapegoating.

Quote:
4) Destruction of laws and norms


Your party tried to impeach the president for merely suggesting the obviously corrupt Bidens should be looked into. 100s of people are in prison right now for political wrong think. You have AG's that literally got into office specifically on the platform of finding something, anything to prosecute Trump for, and then changed the laws so they could.

This is not going well for you.
Quote:

Oh also, he does not believe in free speech


Hunter Bidens laptop
The Twitter files.
Banning conservatives from speaking on college campuses.
Quote:

I understand the unwillingness to come to terms with this, because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge.


Uh huh...
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PabloSerna
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3:04p, 10/24/24
AG
For what's its worth, I happen to think Trump will lose not because of his policies, but because of the content of his character. At some point that catches up to you.

Who can forget his embarrassing moment when he shoved aside the President of Montenegro just to be in the front row.
“Falsehood flies and the truth comes limping after it” -Jonathan Swift, 1710
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Gigem314
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 3:06p, 10/24/24
AG
Quote:
I fully expect you to move the goalposts and say that none of this is really fascism because it's not a perfect comparison with Nazi Germany. But no matter how much you try to rationalize this, he is a fascist. A lot of the party is fascist right now, and I have a huge problem with it.

I understand the unwillingness to come to terms with this, because it's uncomfortable to acknowledge.
Of course, you conveniently leave out all the authoritarian behaviors and actions from the current administration that some of you believe we should happily vote back into office...

1) Rampant gaslighting
- Telling Americans the border is safer than it's ever been as millions more pour in, with DHS actually aiding in the process for pushing people through undetected and blaming Republicans for not giving them enough resources when all they had to do was enforce the laws already on the books. Then of course most recently, using FEMA funds to house these illegal migrants in expensive hotels in big cities...only to tell the public they don't have enough funds to support disaster relief for taxpaying Americans.

2) Stoking hatred against a common enemy
- Blaming white, male, MAGA supporters, Christians, Israel supporters, or basically anyone that doesn't vote along with the democrats, as 'enemies of democracy' for not supporting their agenda of massive govt control and growth. Even RFK Jr. has been labeled as an enemy by the current leadership. They even denied him Secret Service protection despite his family history.

3) Scapegoating
- See #2 for those Biden/Harris and others want to blame for all of the country's problems. And of course Trump. They've had 4 years to fix problems but refuse to take any responsibility and pretend like Trump is still the incumbent.

4) Destruction of laws and norms when it's not convenient
- See the current administration using the DOJ to go after political adversaries (like the classified docs) while sweeping their own violations under the rug (Hunter's laptop, Biden's classified docs in his garage). Not to mention the bending and altering of election laws at the state level in 2020 that helped create chaos.

And those are just a few.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to Silent For Too Long • 3:31p, 10/24/24
AG
Quote:
Literally Hitler. Deplorables. "White Christian Nationalists" boogeyman.

Stop. Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself.

Furthermore, people who utilizes their positions in government to persecute political enemies ARE the enemy within and need to be stopped. Being against actual corruption doesn't magically make you a fascist.
You can take this kind of talk to F16, keep it off of here. Trump ran one of the most corrupt presidencies in recent memory and both he and his business received millions from foreign governments. You really are acting like your **** don't stink here.

Everyone knows Trump was not talking about him being prosecuted for his crimes. He was talking about liberals and people who oppose him.
Quote:
Your party tried to impeach the president for merely suggesting the obviously corrupt Bidens should be looked into. 100s of people are in prison right now for political wrong think. You have AG's that literally got into office specifically on the platform of finding something, anything to prosecute Trump for, and then changed the laws so they could.

This is not going well for you.

This is so much gaslighting straight from right wing talk radio.

He was impeached for trying to condition foreign aid on doing a political favor for him. The J6 rioters got in trouble not for "political wrong think" but for violently breaking into the capitol and trying to disrupt a constitutional proceeding. Some for more serious offenses.

Trump took loads of secret documents and left them in an unsecured location in his house. Stop acting like he's such a poor little victim being persecuted. He's a lifelong criminal and only people full in the MAGA cult can't see that.

Lest we forget, all those people stalwartly defending Trump for exposing our national security like this were frothing at the mouth for years, even into Trump's presidency, over Hillary's emails.
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Silent For Too Long
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In reply to barbacoa taco • 3:34p, 10/24/24
In all sincerety BT, I do appreciate you taking the time to elucidate your view point.

I just felt like Ohtani being served up a middle middle meatball.
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barbacoa taco
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In reply to nortex97 • 3:40p, 10/24/24
AG
Arabs breaking to Trump makes absolutely no sense. The only explanation is complete hatred of Democrats, which is understandable. Trump has been so outwardly racist and vile toward Arabs. He's made it clear he would fully support israel in absolutely flattening Palestine and wiping out the people there. He uses the term Palestinian as a slur and an insult. He clearly sees them as no more than vermin.

He'll be nice to those who say they're voting him, consistent with his transactional view of the world, and then quickly turn on them once he wins.
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Rongagin71
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In reply to PabloSerna • 4:40p, 10/24/24
AG
PabloSerna said:
What happened with making Mexico pay for the wall?
The Wall discussion starts right after the five-minute mark.
Typical of Harris, she spends a lot of time blaming Trump
for things like the "compromise border bill" (that was NOT
a compromise once Republicans had a chance to study
the bill and realized it was full of corruption and would
likely result in increased immigration) not passing.
The bit about taxing Mexican imports and/or wires of $
could have been part of the border bill, and may be
in the next one if it is in fact a real compromise bill.
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Tswizsle
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In reply to Sapper Redux • 4:47p, 10/24/24
Sapper Redux said:
Silent For Too Long said:
You judge a tree by the fruit it bares, homie.

Trumps tree bared the best economy in 50 years, the most peaceful 4 years since Hubert Humphrey, and a secure border.

It also bared the fruit of every corrupt deep state actor coming out of the woodwork to show their true colors. Are you gonna try to gaslight the board now that 51 high ranking intelligence officials didn't actually tell a bold faced lie to the American people, and colude with the media and Big Tech, to get their pedophile dementia ridden puppet in chief into office?


The economy was great when Trump came into office. What did it look like when he left? Peaceful? We were still in Afghanistan and Russia was ramping up in Ukraine and Syria while North Korea and Iran kept developing their nuclear programs. A secure border? Really? Deaths from fentanyl climbed significantly durving his administration and have only plateaued and begun to come down recently.
called Covid 19 you might have heard of it, also border crossing were at all time lowes during his admin
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