So Jesus plus then?
Quo Vadis? said:Sapper Redux said:dermdoc said:Romans 10:13Quo Vadis? said:Sapper Redux said:
And the non-Christians Mussolini had murdered are not?
She didn't mention them by name, but let's hope
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth "Jesus is Lord", and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Pretty simple theology.
What's the point of this life if a guy like Mussolini kills hundreds of thousands and participates in the Holocaust goes to eternal paradise while his victims, if they don't believe the same theology, are tormented? I know that's not your position, Derm, but it is the official position of a lot of Christian groups.
It's kind of a catch-22 on your part, because if there is no God the universe is acting completely irrespective of any ideas of fairness or reciprocity or anything like that, which is what should be expected because we're all just random consequences of random events.
However from my point of view, why punish a man with eternal torment who has seen the error of his ways and turned from them? For his victims, if they didn't come to know Jesus through no fault of their own they should be ok provided they followed the code inscribed on their hearts. If they rejected Christ, then they rejected Christ, and will not spend eternity with him.
Zobel said:
If there is action required on the part of that man - repentance - then how can you say he is sure to be saved? That seems to be an argument the other way.
sodycracker said:
Regarding the original question - if we could lose our salvation, we would all lose our salvation daily. Salvation would be temporal not eternal.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 talks about a man who was sleeping with his own mother or stepmother. That's about as low as you can get. He was to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
On the other hand, it appears as though Judas never believed that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior; therefore, the assumption that at some point Judas had to have accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior must be inaccurate.
Quo Vadis? said:sodycracker said:
Regarding the original question - if we could lose our salvation, we would all lose our salvation daily. Salvation would be temporal not eternal.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 talks about a man who was sleeping with his own mother or stepmother. That's about as low as you can get. He was to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
On the other hand, it appears as though Judas never believed that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior; therefore, the assumption that at some point Judas had to have accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior must be inaccurate.
Is it not possible that we are constantly losing and gaining our salvation? If salvation is a finish line, is it not possible that daily we are either gaining or moving away?
sodycracker said:Quo Vadis? said:sodycracker said:
Regarding the original question - if we could lose our salvation, we would all lose our salvation daily. Salvation would be temporal not eternal.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 talks about a man who was sleeping with his own mother or stepmother. That's about as low as you can get. He was to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
On the other hand, it appears as though Judas never believed that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior; therefore, the assumption that at some point Judas had to have accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior must be inaccurate.
Is it not possible that we are constantly losing and gaining our salvation? If salvation is a finish line, is it not possible that daily we are either gaining or moving away?
"Gaining or moving away" from salvation implies you actually have an impact on your salvation based upon your actions. You don't. It's a gift that none of us deserve.
sodycracker said:Quo Vadis? said:sodycracker said:
Regarding the original question - if we could lose our salvation, we would all lose our salvation daily. Salvation would be temporal not eternal.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 talks about a man who was sleeping with his own mother or stepmother. That's about as low as you can get. He was to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
On the other hand, it appears as though Judas never believed that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior; therefore, the assumption that at some point Judas had to have accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior must be inaccurate.
Is it not possible that we are constantly losing and gaining our salvation? If salvation is a finish line, is it not possible that daily we are either gaining or moving away?
"Gaining or moving away" from salvation implies you actually have an impact on your salvation based upon your actions. You don't. It's a gift that none of us deserve.
Quo Vadis? said:sodycracker said:Quo Vadis? said:sodycracker said:
Regarding the original question - if we could lose our salvation, we would all lose our salvation daily. Salvation would be temporal not eternal.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5 talks about a man who was sleeping with his own mother or stepmother. That's about as low as you can get. He was to be turned over to satan for the destruction of the flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
On the other hand, it appears as though Judas never believed that Jesus Christ is the Lord and Savior; therefore, the assumption that at some point Judas had to have accepted Christ as his Lord and Savior must be inaccurate.
Is it not possible that we are constantly losing and gaining our salvation? If salvation is a finish line, is it not possible that daily we are either gaining or moving away?
"Gaining or moving away" from salvation implies you actually have an impact on your salvation based upon your actions. You don't. It's a gift that none of us deserve.
We absolutely do. "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand", "repent and believe in the gospel".
Repenting is work. Repenting takes a voluntary action, a movement towards God.