aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I think this presumes to know a lot about his character and his intentions. Like swimmer said, what he does next is important. Will he use his spotlight to heal or divide. Or will he disappear. Into sure that I would blame him if it's the latter, I suppose.

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We know plenty about his character and intentions. He was recorded cleaning graffiti and helping people prior. The dude is clearly a good kid

And what do you mean by "heal or divide"? Do you consider it "dividing" if he sues the media outlets who have defamed for a year straight and continue to defame him now?

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I hope he is a good kid. But I don't know him. Just as the left is guilty of wanting him to be a monster, the right is guilty of wanting him to be a saint. He cleaned some graffiti, give the kid a medal!

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He risked his life to protect the property of people he never met. That is WAY more impressive than what 99% if the population did. He's a damn good kid. The facts speak for themselves.

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I think David French says it well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

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LOL, he went from a "murderer who cross state lines with a gun" to merely "foolish". You are clearly losing this fight. Sorry your compares got shot.

Before I address you further, were you lying when you said Kyle crossed state lines with a weapon?

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I was mistaken. I didn't realize that wasn't the case when I wrote it. And I didn't say French was speaking for me. I broadly agree with his take. He is still a murderer in my opinion.

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Yet it was pointed to you how wrong you were on many points including this one. And you merely responded "fine". No correction, or admission of defamation. I do not consider you an honest participant in this discussion.

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That feeling is mutual, I would imagine. You have strawmanned, used conflation and inferred a ton of stuff on this thread. This thread was actually a good discussion until you came in with your talking points and bomb throwing. Not to mention making Rittenhouse out to be an alter boy, which he is not.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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And? Even an evil man is made in the image of God. No one is too far gone to repent and become good.

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At the point he repents and become good, they can turn from being lowlife scum.

Do you defend Hitler this way too? "Don't call him 'genocidal maniac'!!! He could still repent!!!"

Macarthur said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I think this presumes to know a lot about his character and his intentions. Like swimmer said, what he does next is important. Will he use his spotlight to heal or divide. Or will he disappear. Into sure that I would blame him if it's the latter, I suppose.

---

We know plenty about his character and intentions. He was recorded cleaning graffiti and helping people prior. The dude is clearly a good kid

And what do you mean by "heal or divide"? Do you consider it "dividing" if he sues the media outlets who have defamed for a year straight and continue to defame him now?

---

I hope he is a good kid. But I don't know him. Just as the left is guilty of wanting him to be a monster, the right is guilty of wanting him to be a saint. He cleaned some graffiti, give the kid a medal!

---

He risked his life to protect the property of people he never met. That is WAY more impressive than what 99% if the population did. He's a damn good kid. The facts speak for themselves.

---

I think David French says it well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

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LOL, he went from a "murderer who cross state lines with a gun" to merely "foolish". You are clearly losing this fight. Sorry your compares got shot.

Before I address you further, were you lying when you said Kyle crossed state lines with a weapon?

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I was mistaken. I didn't realize that wasn't the case when I wrote it. And I didn't say French was speaking for me. I broadly agree with his take. He is still a murderer in my opinion.

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Yet it was pointed to you how wrong you were on many points including this one. And you merely responded "fine". No correction, or admission of defamation. I do not consider you an honest participant in this discussion.

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That feeling is mutual, I would imagine. You have strawmanned, used conflation and inferred a ton of stuff on this thread. This thread was actually a good discussion until you came in with your talking points and bomb throwing. Not to mention making Rittenhouse out to be an alter boy, which he is not.

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He's a pigeon. One of the biggest on this website. Luckily he's rarely on this board, but he does it on the entertainment board constantly. He's strutted around this thread and **** everywhere, so it's about time for him to declare victory and fly off to the next thread where he feels like his unique brand of "debate" is needed.

aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I think this presumes to know a lot about his character and his intentions. Like swimmer said, what he does next is important. Will he use his spotlight to heal or divide. Or will he disappear. Into sure that I would blame him if it's the latter, I suppose.

---

We know plenty about his character and intentions. He was recorded cleaning graffiti and helping people prior. The dude is clearly a good kid

And what do you mean by "heal or divide"? Do you consider it "dividing" if he sues the media outlets who have defamed for a year straight and continue to defame him now?

---

I hope he is a good kid. But I don't know him. Just as the left is guilty of wanting him to be a monster, the right is guilty of wanting him to be a saint. He cleaned some graffiti, give the kid a medal!

---

He risked his life to protect the property of people he never met. That is WAY more impressive than what 99% if the population did. He's a damn good kid. The facts speak for themselves.

---

I think David French says it well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

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LOL, he went from a "murderer who cross state lines with a gun" to merely "foolish". You are clearly losing this fight. Sorry your compares got shot.

Before I address you further, were you lying when you said Kyle crossed state lines with a weapon?

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I was mistaken. I didn't realize that wasn't the case when I wrote it. And I didn't say French was speaking for me. I broadly agree with his take. He is still a murderer in my opinion.

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Yet it was pointed to you how wrong you were on many points including this one. And you merely responded "fine". No correction, or admission of defamation. I do not consider you an honest participant in this discussion.

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Lol. I'm not here to appease you. Run along.

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You are clearly here to spread misinformation that pushes your twisted world view.

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Sure, sparky. That what I'm here for. To spread misinformation on a thread read by literally dozens of people. That's my purpose in life. You got me.

Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I think this presumes to know a lot about his character and his intentions. Like swimmer said, what he does next is important. Will he use his spotlight to heal or divide. Or will he disappear. Into sure that I would blame him if it's the latter, I suppose.

---

We know plenty about his character and intentions. He was recorded cleaning graffiti and helping people prior. The dude is clearly a good kid

And what do you mean by "heal or divide"? Do you consider it "dividing" if he sues the media outlets who have defamed for a year straight and continue to defame him now?

---

I hope he is a good kid. But I don't know him. Just as the left is guilty of wanting him to be a monster, the right is guilty of wanting him to be a saint. He cleaned some graffiti, give the kid a medal!

---

He risked his life to protect the property of people he never met. That is WAY more impressive than what 99% if the population did. He's a damn good kid. The facts speak for themselves.

---

I think David French says it well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

---

LOL, he went from a "murderer who cross state lines with a gun" to merely "foolish". You are clearly losing this fight. Sorry your compares got shot.

Before I address you further, were you lying when you said Kyle crossed state lines with a weapon?

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I was mistaken. I didn't realize that wasn't the case when I wrote it. And I didn't say French was speaking for me. I broadly agree with his take. He is still a murderer in my opinion.

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Yet it was pointed to you how wrong you were on many points including this one. And you merely responded "fine". No correction, or admission of defamation. I do not consider you an honest participant in this discussion.

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Lol. I'm not here to appease you. Run along.

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You are clearly here to spread misinformation that pushes your twisted world view.

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Sure, sparky. That what I'm here for. To spread misinformation on a thread read by literally dozens of people. That's my purpose in life. You got me.

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I never said you were smart.

aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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Sapper Redux said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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aTmAg said:

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kurt vonnegut said:

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I think this presumes to know a lot about his character and his intentions. Like swimmer said, what he does next is important. Will he use his spotlight to heal or divide. Or will he disappear. Into sure that I would blame him if it's the latter, I suppose.

---

We know plenty about his character and intentions. He was recorded cleaning graffiti and helping people prior. The dude is clearly a good kid

And what do you mean by "heal or divide"? Do you consider it "dividing" if he sues the media outlets who have defamed for a year straight and continue to defame him now?

---

I hope he is a good kid. But I don't know him. Just as the left is guilty of wanting him to be a monster, the right is guilty of wanting him to be a saint. He cleaned some graffiti, give the kid a medal!

---

He risked his life to protect the property of people he never met. That is WAY more impressive than what 99% if the population did. He's a damn good kid. The facts speak for themselves.

---

I think David French says it well.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

---

LOL, he went from a "murderer who cross state lines with a gun" to merely "foolish". You are clearly losing this fight. Sorry your compares got shot.

Before I address you further, were you lying when you said Kyle crossed state lines with a weapon?

---

I was mistaken. I didn't realize that wasn't the case when I wrote it. And I didn't say French was speaking for me. I broadly agree with his take. He is still a murderer in my opinion.

---

Yet it was pointed to you how wrong you were on many points including this one. And you merely responded "fine". No correction, or admission of defamation. I do not consider you an honest participant in this discussion.

---

Lol. I'm not here to appease you. Run along.

---

You are clearly here to spread misinformation that pushes your twisted world view.

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Sure, sparky. That what I'm here for. To spread misinformation on a thread read by literally dozens of people. That's my purpose in life. You got me.

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I never said you were smart.

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aTmAg said:

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Rosenbaum was charged with 11 counts of child molestation of boys between the ages of 9-11 including anal rape.

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He was convicted of 2 counts. Why would you list the number of accusations rather than convictions?

ramblin_ag02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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And? Even an evil man is made in the image of God. No one is too far gone to repent and become good.

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At the point he repents and become good, they can turn from being lowlife scum.

Do you defend Hitler this way too? "Don't call him 'genocidal maniac'!!! He could still repent!!!"

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I'm not defending anybody, and Rosenbaum was a convicted child rapist. That doesn't mean God loves him any less, and I should try to do that too. Hitler was definitely a genocidal maniac, but God loved him just as much as God loved the Jews he killed

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So you love Hitler?

Dilettante said:

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aTmAg said:

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Rosenbaum was charged with 11 counts of child molestation of boys between the ages of 9-11 including anal rape.

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He was convicted of 2 counts. Why would you list the number of accusations rather than convictions?

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Because my quick google search didn't tell me that. I assumed he hadn't gone to trial yet because he got killed. I hadn't bothered to actually care about his crimes enough to look into it prior to this thread.

I guess I'm a bad Christian in that I think Hitler, Bin Laden, child molesters are "scum".

You seem like a real peach, but I love you too.
.

ramblin_ag02 said:

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aTmAg said:

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ramblin_ag02 said:

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And? Even an evil man is made in the image of God. No one is too far gone to repent and become good.

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At the point he repents and become good, they can turn from being lowlife scum.

Do you defend Hitler this way too? "Don't call him 'genocidal maniac'!!! He could still repent!!!"

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I'm not defending anybody, and Rosenbaum was a convicted child rapist. That doesn't mean God loves him any less, and I should try to do that too. Hitler was definitely a genocidal maniac, but God loved him just as much as God loved the Jews he killed

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Agree. It took me a long time to repent(change my mind)on this subject.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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Don't get too worried about being a bad Christian, we all are. We have to work at trying to give Christlike love to all people. Especially those who don't deserve it from us.

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Amen.

When churches go woke; pews go empty.

Not sure why the ELCA bishop thought she needed to comment on this public jury trial verdict.

Quote:

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GET WOKE, EMPTY THE PEWS
It would be a full-time job to chronicle all of the irrational reactions by liberals to the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict, and scarcely worth the effort. But I do want to note one such response because it affects me directly: that of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America. The ELCA, of which my congregation is a member, sent out this "Pastoral Letter" authored by Presiding Bishop Elizabeth Eaton. Here is the letter, titled "A pastoral message on the Rittenhouse acquittal," with my comments interpolated:

Quote:

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Dear church,

In the book of Leviticus we read: "You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor" (19:15).

Our social message on Community Violence urges us to become more involved in countering the reality and fear of violence in our communities and our neighbors' communities…

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Violence is countered primarily by law enforcement, but I don't think that is what she means.

Quote:

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…pursuing justice and seeking peace no matter how long the journey or complex the challenge.
When a child is allowed to become a vigilante…

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One of the left's mindless anti-Rittenhouse themes. Rittenhouse took no hostile action against anyone until he was chased by a mob and attacked by three criminals.

Quote:

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…without recourse…

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The "recourse" was that he was prosecuted for murder. He was acquitted because he was innocent.

Quote:

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…we are forced to confront the idols of our society: guns, violence and white supremacy.

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What utter stupidity! Guns are not idols but tools; in this case, a tool of self-defense without which Rittenhouse likely would have been murdered. And what on God's green Earth does "white supremacy" have to do with anything? It was not a factor in the trial, for the good reason that it had nothing to do with the case. This is the kind of mindless blather that we have come to expect from liberals and, sadly, from the ELCA.

Quote:

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To be sure, this is not about one person, but indeed about all of us, together.
Today's acquittal is an injustice.

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Really? Why? The esteemed Bishop might at least do us the courtesy of explaining what was unjust about it. Videos of the attackers' assaults on Kyle Rittenhouse showed clearly that he acted in self-defense. Has she not seen the videos? Does she offer an intelligent comment on the evidence? Does she have some explanation for why a jury of 12 Kenosha residents unanimously determined that Rittenhouse acted in self-defense and therefore was not guilty?
Of course not.

Quote:

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It points to the disorder in which we all live.

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Some of us more than others.

Quote:

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As we seek to restore justice; so also will we restore God to God's rightful place at the center of our life together.

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Somehow I don't think that wrongly convicting Kyle Rittenhouse under pressure from a mob would help to "restore God to God's rightful place." On the contrary.

This is the sort of left-wing nonsense that the ELCA spews on a regular basis. It is not coincidental that the ELCA is a failing denomination.

The ELCA had over five million members when it was formed out of a merger of three Lutheran churches in 1988. As of the end of 2020, it had shrunk to 3.3 million, with no end in sight. Why is the ELCA failing? One obvious reason is that it has made clear that Christians who are not hard-core liberalsthat is, the overwhelming majority of the populationare not welcome. Many of my friends have left the ELCA, unwilling to support its ill-informed leftism. I hate to give up on the institution, but one of these days we likely will follow them.

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I bet she didn'T send out a pastoral letter condemning the BLM/Antifa riots themselves.

The reaction to this case is very troubling. A clear case of self defense, where force was not applied until Kyle's attackers were literally on top of him. All recorded on video. And yet I see him called a murderer and vigilante.

It has made me realize that there are many in our society who have completely lost their moral compass and have no rational sense of what is ethical. Not just extremists on the fringe, but many in mainstream media and even those claiming the Christian faith.

I don't see how you can watch a video of a rabid mob chase down and beat a fleeing man and not say self defense was warranted. Sadly if Kyle had not had his rifle and been beaten to a pulp, he would have been forgotten in a few days. As a society we're losing our concept of justice, and that's a terrifying place to be.

Macarthur said:

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Johnny04 said:

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The reaction to this case is very troubling. A clear case of self defense, where force was not applied until Kyle's attackers were literally on top of him. All recorded on video. And yet I see him called a murderer and vigilante.

It has made me realize that there are many in our society who have completely lost their moral compass and have no rational sense of what is ethical. Not just extremists on the fringe, but many in mainstream media and even those claiming the Christian faith.

I don't see how you can watch a video of a rabid mob chase down and beat a fleeing man and not say self defense was warranted. Sadly if Kyle had not had his rifle and been beaten to a pulp, he would have been forgotten in a few days. As a society we're losing our concept of justice, and that's a terrifying place to be.

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Your characterization of Kyle being pure as the driven snow and simply acting in pure self defense from an angry rabid mob is more than a bit disingenuous. I don't have an issue with the self defense here and the verdict, but I do think Kyle has some personal issues that paint him as a kid that was looking for trouble and acted in a way that could be characterized as irresponsible, at best. There's a lot more nuance to this than you are painting.

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You and your six letter words. Nuance. Bah!

How is it disingenuous? Self defense in the case is entirely justified from the events that happened. And he was cast as a murderer, vigilante and white supremacist. That to me is disingenuous given that video of the events were available the night of the shooting.

I don't think he was a punk looking for trouble. I think he was an extremely nave and well intentioned kid. He thought he could show up, put out fires, help anyone who needed it and the protesters would respect that. He didn't understand how truly hated he was by that crowd.

This is my impression after listening to most of the trial.

I can only say I am discussing this in good faith.

Did you watch the videos of Kyle that night? Not just the shooting, but the ones earlier that night? The one of him walking down the street asking protesters if they needed medical help? (which was cringeworthy to me) This was not a militant person looking for a fight. Yes, he had a gun in case he was assaulted. Just as you put on a seat belt but don't intend to crash your car. But that in of itself is not an aggressive act, especially not when the BLM protesters were armed as well.

Did you watch the videos of the shooting and events that proceeded it? Now I'm starting to think you are the one being disingenuous.

The "whataboutism" about the scuffle while defending his sister really isn't an answer.

Johnny04 said:

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Did you watch the videos of the shooting and events that proceeded it? Now I'm starting to think you are the one being disingenuous.

The "whataboutism" about the scuffle while defending his sister really isn't an answer.

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I did and I've already said I didn't have an issue with the verdict. I just think painting him as some do gooder is pretty silly.

I noticed you mentioned the video of him defending his sister but didn't mention the one of him saying he wanted shoot people walking out of a CVS. And there are reports that his sister was the instigator so you're still looking at this with very colored glasses.

I would say the same to you. The fact that he shot some of "your people" seems to be the reason you think he was irresponsible and looking for trouble. I don't think you're looking at what happened here objectively. And pointing to some remarks he made off the cuff weeks prior in response to cities being burned and looted is hardly damning evidence of his character.

This is what I commented on in the beginning of the thread. Just like in the trial, there was little to NO evidence for the prosecutions case. Yet Kyle was branded a murder by half the country and most of the media for a year. The partisanship is off the charts. The media didn't make an honest effort to inform the public of the facts of the incident. And that's because many in this country tacitly endorsed the BLM riots of 2020 and were OK when anyone who opposed them was assaulted. Suddenly when the leftist mob doesn't have a complete monopoly on violence they are shocked. Where was this outrage when 30 people were killed as a result of the 2020 riots?

While Rittenhouse has some videos out there that don't paint him in a flattering light (to put it mildly), I'm not sure how I feel about his decision to protect property on the night in question. With the admittance that my knowledge is fairly limited about the events on the night in question compared to you guys, and without knowing what was truly in his heart, in general, I feel like going out and putting yourself in harms way to defend other people, or even their property, is admirable. I agree that property is not worth human life, but to be a viable deterrent it seems to me that you must have the means to meet force with equal or greater force. So I don't think him showing up with a firearm to accomplish the goal of protecting property seems all that unreasonable. Where do you folks on the other side disagree with this?