It's starting to get like Twitter and Facebook around here.

I have no idea what's going on.

Some random rookie poster posted some long blurb about how he knew the people in the video and that they were misrepresented. Not sure why it got deleted but someone has been going through and removing a few things from this board this morning.

They probably violated Texags "Community Standards"

Thought I'd drop by and say hello this morning. Seems like there's some drama going on.

Which poster was it?

Do we know why the Seamaster thread was nuked?

[The last two pages consisted of mostly personal attacks and attempts to parse prior posts rather than a discussion of what seemed to be the topic of the thread. Sometimes its easier to deactivate those than clean them up. If users would refrain from personal attacks, and alert us to threads that are getting derailed sooner, you will see less of that, as we would prefer not to deactivate threads--Staff]

Beer Baron said:

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Which poster was it?

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he had 3 posts. his original name was zwingli that just got perma'd. starts a new username. 2 posts about flat earth and a 3rd with a link to a facebook page trying to disprove the holocaust. he won't be missed.

No clue. Seemed like it had fizzled by the time it got deleted anyway.

Yeah there seems to be a ton of overlap in conspiracy theory world. Believe one, and you seem much more likely to believe them all.

I did a search of zwingli on the texags search function. Some sick stuff there. Also saw he recommended any church change should be to a "Reformed" church. I've been noticing a lot of overlap on social media of these "Reformed" bros and some disturbing ideologies, like white nationalism.

AstroAg17 said:

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Part of his point was that Mark Sargent is not to be trusted because he has a fake name.

He said we should instead trust a man named Math Powerland.

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I'm sure his parents, Mr & Mrs Powerland, would agree that we should listen to their son, Math.

Quote:

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Do we know why the Seamaster thread was nuked?

[The last two pages consisted of mostly personal attacks and attempts to parse prior posts rather than a discussion of what seemed to be the topic of the thread. Sometimes its easier to deactivate those than clean them up. If users would refrain from personal attacks, and alert us to threads that are getting derailed sooner, you will see less of that, as we would prefer not to deactivate threads--Staff]

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Understood. I didn't know if something came in over night that was particularly egregious. Thank you for the response.

Furlock Bones
You assumed incorrectly. I am not zwingli. And I've only made 2 posts before this one.

My first post:
The long post I made here. It was a reply to SoulSlaveAG2005 and AgLiving06 about the Netflix piece "Behind the Curve." I responded because I have personal first hand knowledge of it. I attended the meetup where the scene in Pasadena was recorded. I know many people in that scene, and I have seen the YouTube video Math Powerland did about his email correspondence with the producers of "Behind the Curve."

My second post:
(I made it because someone on this flat earth thread mentioned the thread from February on the holocaust)
I only referred to zwingli for context. And it was only one sentence that shared a link to evidence against the holocaust gas chambers.

k2aggie07, PacifistAg, AstroAg17
Thanks for being supportive. I'm class of '07 too.

PacifistAg
You assumed incorrectly, I am not Math Powerland.

AstroAg17
You got the gist about Mark Sargent being fake and Math Powerland being someone to trust.

Beer Barob
Furlock Bones is mistaken. "Planomenon" was my first account, this is my second.

My post didn't make "personal attacks and attempts to parse prior posts," and it was a "discussion of what seemed to be the topic of the thread."

diehard03
Here is the post that was deleted, you can see for yourself that it wasn't egregious. It was deleted because Furlock Bones assumed I am zwingli.

"I can speak to the intent of the Netflix editorial "Behind the Curve." It is a biased controlled opposition hit piece used to turn people against the idea of earth being a motionless plane. It is not an unbiased objective documentary.

Math Powerland, on his YouTube channel, exposes how the producers of the editorial, Nick Andert, Caroline Clark, and Daniel Clark of Delta-v Productions are also guilty copyright violation by illegally using his likeness, first seen at 7 minutes in, against his approval. And in addition to stealing his likeness, the producers were so mad at Math Powerland for refusing to sign the consent form to be in the film that a significant part of the hit piece was made to discredit him in particular.

I attended the meetup in Pasadena on 10/8/2017, seen at 1:07:10 in, organized around Mark Sargent. I saw many people gush over Sargent, however I wasn't interested in him or being interviewed and chose to hang out with regular flat earthers instead.

Mark Sargent, a fake name, is the person the producers chose to focus on because he consented, unlike Math Powerland. Patricia Steere, a fake name, like Mark Sargent was chosen because she also consented to the producers bias agenda. Mark and Patricia, obvious controlled opposition fakes, are probably funded by some group that wants to discredit the flat earth idea. Two examples of flat earthers that have made videos against Patricia are the YouTube channels "Subtle Infinity" with his series "When flat earth goes mainstream" and Aaron Dover with his series "Flat earth and other **** potatoes," a title mocking Patricia's channel "Flat earth and other hot potatoes."

Nathan Roberts, Jeran Campanella, Bob Knodel, Robbie Davidson, and Darryle Marble were featured because they consented to terms and they were all speakers at the 2017 Flat Earth conference in North Carolina, seen at 1:17:53. Robbie Davidson organized it, and others. Robbie is seen by many Flat Earthers as a greedy opportunist because of these conferences, and stunts like inviting Logan Paul to be a speaker at the 2018 conference in Denver. All the Flat Earthers credited on the IMDB page are seen as disingenuous in some way, though Robbie Davidson, Mark Sargent, and Patricia Steere are the most suspect, while Nathan, Jeran, Bod, and Darryle are not the same kind of profiteers.

I am friends with with many of the people with real names that attended the Pasadena meetup, because I met them at meetups in Santa Monica previous to the Arcadia one. I know Dan, seen at 1:10:03. I know Rene seen at 1:12:12. I know Alex and Angel, seen at 1:11:48. I know Sasha and Aaron, seen at 1:12:38.

A better effort at real documentary work with the physicist that appeared, Spiros Michalakis, seen at 28:45, is a 2-part 5-hr interview he did with my friends Nathan and Sasha, and he has agreed to do experiments with them.

The snow globe model by Chris Pontius, seen at 45:14, is a false representation that many flat earthers don't take seriously. The contained model is featured to discredit the idea of an infinite plane with more land and water beyond Antarctica, without a dome barrier.

I also attended a meetup in Arcadia on 6/8/2018, organized around the attendance of National Geographic interviewing Mark Sargent, seen in the 4-min expose titled "Flat Earth vs. Round Earth | Explorer" which released January 16 on YouTube. I was asked if I wanted to be interviewed and I declined again because I saw it was going to be a similar hit piece.

So, the Netflix hit piece is an editorial that featured fake personalities, Mark and Patricia who appeared on the flat earth scene to discredit it. Mark admits Math Powerland was the first to upload a video on it, from the 2007 Just for Laughs Montreal festival, seen at 7:03, and Mark is a bad knock off of Math Powerland. It aimed to discredit the flat earth idea by using these personalities contrived to be dumb and not a good example of a flat earther. Math Powerland is a good example of a flat earther, the first to go public in 2007, and uploaded a recording in 2011. It also infringed on the right of Math Powerland to not be included in the film, since he was offered a part if he consented to terms but he declined. And it used real people that spoke at Flat Earth conferences who consented to terms. Lastly, it used regular flat earthers, my friends I mentioned, to seem like a real documentary."

Please mods do not delete as this is fascinating and I missed the original long post.


So, you believe that the earth is flat, correct?

Thanks for asking! I do think that earth is a motionless plane.

How much have you learned about it?

Next to nothing. I pretty much abide with what more sciencey types have told me is the case. I have no resources or background to even start to disagree with people who have expertise in such matters.

From a practical standpoint, what would change if the premise of a motionless plane was accepted? Obviously the globe industry would die out immediately, but how does this affect a normal schmo?

Like this guy, totally out of a job.



This kid though... might be happier


I have no scientific usefulness here, so I'm just asking questions and making jokes. Feel free to ignore me, I come in peace.

The short answer is "more land."

Practically, thinking in general is affected by the view one holds of the world.

"It is the ultimate picture which an age forms of the nature of its world that is its most fundamental possession. It is the final controlling factor in all thinking whatever."
Edwin Burtt, 1924

"The mentality of an epoch springs from the view of the world."
Alfred Whitehead, 1925

Unpacking Burtt's and Whitehead's statements can lead to how ontology and cosmology are important. That would be a more technical philosophical conversation than covering the social and psychological implications, such as how it ends the unquestioning faith in official narratives from consensus science and liberal secular humanism more broadly. John Gray has asserted that a dogmatic fundamentalism exists in kinds of atheists that are normally considered based in objective science.

"Unbelief today should begin by questioning not religion but secular faith."
John Gray, 2013

The earth is featured as a primary consideration by many philosophers who claim it deserves a place of importance. Gilles Deleuze and Paul Virilio for example both suggest ontology and cosmology should become a kind of geophilosophy or geometaphysics.

Motionless relative to everything in the sky.

Some FAQs I can address are:
The things in the sky are moving not earth.

The earth is a plane, possibly infinite with no edge to fall off of, and no underside existing. Earth is not a disc floating in space.

Which means Antarctica is not a continent, but the surrounding perimeter. North is to the magnetic north pole, but south is just the opposite direction, not ending at at south pole. If one moves south long enough eventually the ice shelf may end and another ocean begins, with different continents.

Seasons change based on the sun's changing position and distance relative to the earth, which is thousands of miles away not millions.

A map rendering in a drawing made by an artist is found here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/subirats-map-26771826

He made it after holding skype calls with people in multiple continents telling the position of the sun at their location, and using continent size data.

One main difference is that the southern latitudes are bigger than supposed.

How would you know whether one thing is moving or another? Mathematically speaking isn't that equivalent?

Why do we have temperature excursions relative to the equator?

Why can you see different stars in the Southern Hemisphere?

What causes an eclipse? And why is the shadow always round, no matter which apparent angle it is cast from? And why does the crescent always indicate the direction of the sun?

What is "continent size data"?

A gyroscope can determine if the earth is moving. The gimbal and frame of it would rotate if the earth is moving.

The temperature differences relative to the equator are due to the differences in distance to the sun, which also affects season changes.

The stars change because the angular resolution, from geometric optics, determines the visibility of an object. It's based on the wavelength of light being bigger than the angle between the ground and object relative to the diameter of the eye or camera aperture.

An eclipse is caused by a third object in the sky, probably some kind of black body.

Continents can be measured based on the speed and time of moving between locations.

Questions that can determine whether earth is curved must address the problem of why things disappear into the horizon, like you address with the southern stars. That is also related to why things receding into the horizon like boats and buildings disappear from the bottom up, which is also explained by geometric optics and angular resolution.

Questions that can determine whether earth is moving must address gyroscopic observations. Before that invention the debate was as you described, equivalent mathematically, and explanations depended on physical reasoning alone, such as if the earth's changes in acceleration would be felt, like we feel with drastic enough acceleration or deceleration changes.

What causes the Foucault pendulum in the Mitchell building to swing?

How far do you believe the sun is from the Earth? If the high temperatures at the equator are explained by the sun being closest to it, why isn't the climate, overall, the same in the northern and southern hemispheres at any given point in time?

The stars change because the angular resolution, from geometric optics, determines the visibility of an object. It's based on the wavelength of light being bigger than the angle between the ground and object relative to the diameter of the eye or camera aperture.

My eye is the same in the northern hemisphere as it is in the southern hemisphere. Thus, your response doesn't explain why different stars are observed in the northern and southern hemispheres.

An eclipse is caused by a third object in the sky, probably some kind of black body.

What evidence is there of a third object? How big is the object? How far is it from the object it is covering?

Why are shadows on the ground of different length at different places? Why does the sun set at different times for different places?

Are you familiar with this paper, showing the Earth's rotation using gyroscopes? Are you familiar with the level of precision one would need to measure the Earth's rotation using gyroscopes?

Why do spacebound rockets or high-altitude balloons launched not only by government agencies, but also by amateur hobbyists, show a curved Earth every time?

Why do you believe Kyrie Irving is smarter and better equipped to answer questions about the nature of the Earth than someone working at NASA?

As I have a simpler mind than some on here, I only have a couple of simple questions

If the earth is a flat plane, and someone was to start digging... how deep does the plane go? What is supporting the plane in space? What is underneath the plane? If we dig far enough Do we just fall through a hole into nothingness?

What do you think is happening when both people from China and Europe sail/fly opposite directions to get to the US? What keeps satellites in the sky?

You can't just throw out sciency words like geometric optics and angular resolution to explain something. Show us the math or the experiments of why ships disappear bottom up at the curve of the Earth or why you can't see My. Everest with a telescope from anywhere on Earth.

Equator:
This doesn't make much sense to me. The sun's distance to any point on a plane would be more or less the same, and in order to be closer to the equator generally the sun would have to rotate over us - it'd never set, no? Can you give a drawing or sketch of how you think this works? For that matter, using the map you linked - can you show how the sun can appear rise to rise in the east and set in the west if that's the way the world is?

Re: stars
You didn't answer the question. If the earth is a plane, and the sky is over it, then by geometry any part of the sky is observable from any part of the plane, barring low-level physical interference like buildings or trees. How come the view of the sky changes?

Re:eclipse
Regardless of whether the earth is round or flat we are quite capable of observing the movement of the sun, moon, and other bodies. We know that eclipses are caused by shadows, and it is fairly simple to show that lunar eclipses happen when the earth is between the sun and the moon, and solar eclipses when the moon is between the sun and the earth. The relationship between the position of the three bodies is called a Saros cycle, and their relative locations repeat every 18 years, 11 and 8 hours.

But if the earth is a plane why does the sun cast a circle of light? Is it shrouded like a flashlight?

What's on the other side of the ice dam? How high up does the dam go? Why has no one photographed or explored this area?

AstroAg17 said:

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It seems like the Southern Hemisphere in such a system would be much colder.

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And wouldn't that model be unable to account for places like Barrow, AK where in the winter they will go significant periods of time without a sunrise, and in the summer without a sunset?