RetiredAg said:

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Thanks for sharing that. I agree. I'm not a fan of the "he's probably burning in hell" mindset either. The author of that made me think of Franklin Graham's recent praise of Trump's UN speech where he threatened to kill 25 million people (or to "totally destroy" the country). We are very odd in how we pick and choose which sins to condemn. Hefner's impact on society shouldn't be celebrated, but neither should his death (not saying that's what happening here). He should be mourned because he bore the image of our Creator and was of immeasurable worth to God.

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I did not and do not celebrate hugh hefner's death. Perhaps I wrote that in a way that led you to believe otherwise, if so, I'm sorry I made that mistake. I did indeed spend a lot of time praying for his salvation. However, to live your life in such a was as he did is a sad and pathetic thing. Evidenced by many people saying today how he had a great life and they wish they could live their lives in the same manner. He was in the public eye for many decades. I'm not sure the world can see that he did anything but celebrate sin.

TampaBayAg said:

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.....Hugh Heffner heard a gospel message while walking down 7th Avenue in Ybor (Tampa).....

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Well thank god that guy just didn't mind his own business.

Just to restate, I wasn't saying you or anyone was celebrating his death. I had said "not saying that's what happening here" so as to avoid being seen accusing anyone of that. My apologies if I wasn't clear enough on that.

TampaBayAg said:

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.....Hugh Heffner heard a gospel message while walking down 7th Avenue in Ybor (Tampa).....

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Amazing how everybody gets a chance

AstroAg17 said:

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aggiesuite said:

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I got her corporate address and sent her a Bible tract.

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i'm dying

1 Kings 11:1 Now king Solomon loved many foreign women, besides the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites; 2 of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel: 'Ye shall not go among them, neither shall they come among you; for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods'; Solomon did cleave unto these in love. 3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart. 4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not whole with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

The only part of this that wasn't condoned was the ethnicity of some of the women and the worship of the other gods.

TampaBayAg said:

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.....Hugh Heffner heard a gospel message while walking down 7th Avenue in Ybor (Tampa).....

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I hope Andersen windows aren't the pathway to eternal life. I've breezed past a strikingly similar sales pitch about 30 times at HEB.

kurt vonnegut said:

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aggiesuite said:

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He has no one to blame but himself if he was lost. We are responsible for our actions. He did untold damage to the moral compass in this country.

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Are those in this country whose moral compass was damaged by Hugh not responsible for their own actions also. Which is it? Is our moral compass a product of our environment or solely our own selves?

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That is a key point of the idea of "community" and being "My Brother's Keeper".

Yes, we are responsible for our own actions, and a big part of that is how our actions affect others.

"no man is an island"

So to answer which is it? "Is our moral compass a product of our environment or solely our own selves?"

jkag89 said:

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On the death of Hugh Hefner
Mark Shea - Catholic and Enjoying It

Quote:

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I hate the speculations about whether Hefner is in hell. Such speculations are, I believe, always wicked. More than that, they are telling. When a famous person dies and American Christians feel a compulsion to wonder if they are damned, such speculations always seem to be directed toward the destinies of fleshly sinners, but never to sinners notable for sins against the poor, or sins popular with consumers of Right Wing Noise Machine agitprop. Rock stars, pop tarts, models, and actors with checkered sexual pasts get this treatment, but never ice cold corporate magnates.

Jesus' most terrifying words are typically directed (as in the Parable of the Sheep and the Goats) against those who oppress the poor, not those who could not keep it in their pants. Fornication and "evil thoughts" are, to be sure, also condemned by him, but (like Dante and the rest of the Catholic tradition) sins of the flesh, while evil, are not treated by Jesus as nearly as evil as sins of the spirit. Lust is bad, but pride and envy and greed are much worse. He seems to have gotten on rather well with prostitutes. He is much harder on Pharisees.

Yet these days, you don't get people speculating on whether some cheapskate is in hell, because obscene sexuality, not obscene wealth, are far more serious in a culture of American Puritans, whether Catholic and Protestant..

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Good old liberation theology is alive and well.

jkag89 said:

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I'm assuming it is a drive by post from someone that usually haunts on the Politics Board. He/she reads a piece that does not extol earning money as an absolute virtue. Sees it is from a Catholic blog. Catholics now have a "Marxist Pope" with Frankie. Now it is easy to simply dismiss the offending opinion with the blanket term liberation theology.

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Not drive by. Someone who is disgusted with the leadership of the church. Sexual immorality leads to- poverty, disease, broken homes, human trafficking, abortion and many other problems. Most poverty is caused by evil governments such as Venezuela. Tired of the rhetoric of blaming people who are hard working, responsible and trying to live moral lives being told we are bad.

Latigo said:

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jkag89 said:

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I'm assuming it is a drive by post from someone that usually haunts on the Politics Board. He/she reads a piece that does not extol earning money as an absolute virtue. Sees it is from a Catholic blog. Catholics now have a "Marxist Pope" with Frankie. Now it is easy to simply dismiss the offending opinion with the blanket term liberation theology.

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Not drive by. Someone who is disgusted with the leadership of the church. Sexual immorality leads to- poverty, disease, broken homes, human trafficking, abortion and many other problems. Most poverty is caused by evil governments such as Venezuela. Tired of the rhetoric of blaming people who are hard working, responsible and trying to live moral lives being told we are bad.

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That must be exhausting for you. I'll pray for your struggle. Thank you for sharing your concern about your particular religious club in the "dirtbag who peddled smut is dead" thread.

Latigo said:

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jkag89 said:

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I'm assuming it is a drive by post from someone that usually haunts on the Politics Board. He/she reads a piece that does not extol earning money as an absolute virtue. Sees it is from a Catholic blog. Catholics now have a "Marxist Pope" with Frankie. Now it is easy to simply dismiss the offending opinion with the blanket term liberation theology.

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Not drive by. Someone who is disgusted with the leadership of the church. Sexual immorality leads to- poverty, disease, broken homes, human trafficking, abortion and many other problems. Most poverty is caused by evil governments such as Venezuela. Tired of the rhetoric of blaming people who are hard working, responsible and trying to live moral lives being told we are bad.

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Did we even read the same piece?

aggiesuite said:

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So you think porn is a productive addition to our society?

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Yeah, porn was invented by hugh and would have never turned into what it is today without him.


Get a grip

I didn't interpret anyone's post on this thread as celebrating Hugh Hefner's death and possible damnation. I think we all realize that we don't know how God judged him because we don't know whether he died in a state of grace or not.

I'm a bit perplexed by the defense of Hefner's part in popularizing and normalizing pornography. While I agree that Playboy was rather tame* when compared to the disgusting depths to which pornography has descended in the internet age**; I think he bears some responsibility for leading our popular culture in that direction.

I don't think it's really even debatable that porn is a destructive force on society.

* My most recent experience with Playboy is 30 years or so old, so it may have descended to those same depths but my impression is that it stayed comparatively mild.

**My experience with internet porn consists of blocking sites I've found my sons viewing and it was much more graphic and dehumanizing than the Playboy of 30 years ago...I have little doubt that the internet is capable of much worse than I've seen.

RetiredAg said:

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Latigo said:

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jkag89 said:

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I'm assuming it is a drive by post from someone that usually haunts on the Politics Board. He/she reads a piece that does not extol earning money as an absolute virtue. Sees it is from a Catholic blog. Catholics now have a "Marxist Pope" with Frankie. Now it is easy to simply dismiss the offending opinion with the blanket term liberation theology.

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Not drive by. Someone who is disgusted with the leadership of the church. Sexual immorality leads to- poverty, disease, broken homes, human trafficking, abortion and many other problems. Most poverty is caused by evil governments such as Venezuela. Tired of the rhetoric of blaming people who are hard working, responsible and trying to live moral lives being told we are bad.

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Where on earth did it say people who are hard working, responsible and trying to live moral lives are "bad"? How exactly is what he posted "liberation theology"?

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Per the article posted, right wingers, corporate magnates and puritans are associated with wealth, materialism and oppression of the poor. These are underpinnings of liberation theology. Those that "can't keep it in their pants " are excused as not being as bad as those previously mentioned.

The guy that posted the article not only can't understand what was written, but chooses to take a shot at me as being a drive by. He noticeably did not dispute the facts of what I posted.

The author also falsely states that people who oppress the poor are the recipients of Jesus's most terrifying words. He shouldn't be writing christian articles if he doesn't have a better understanding of scripture.

All Hefner did was figure out how to market it and turn it into big business. And we all know there's nothing more American than that amirite?

GoHomeLeg said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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aggiesuite said:

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He left behind a trail of death and destruction though.

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This actually made me laugh. Basically equating Hugh to Genghis Kahn, Hitler, Stalin, the 9/11 terrorists, or Ted Kaczynski.

He peddled boobies. He didn't murder people.

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If we are talking eternal (damned) death then I agree with the top quote. hefner left a terrible legacy of spiritual and emotional death.

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LOL. But he didn't actually KILL people. And he didn't eat babies. He peddled some boobies just like all of the other girly mags of the era. His brand won out. And then faded away into obscure nothingness when the Internet was born.

Not sure that helping 13 year olds rub one out every day is the same as murder. But hey.... believe what ur gonna believe. Thanks for the reminder. I forgot how many of the religious equate masterbation with murder.

I understand your point but I'm pretty sure no one is going to LOL about eternal life separated from God.

Quote:

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The guy that posted the article not only can't understand what was written, but chooses to take a shot at me as being a drive by.

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Please explain what I do not understand? My view of the blog post I linked is very much what was presented by RetiredAg in his responses. Was it unfair to label your initial post as a drive by? Possibly. although I never seen a post by you on the R&P before and a quick search of your user name shows at least no recent ones and a large number of posts on the Politics Board. Please accept my apology for my knee jerk response to your use of the term "liberation theology" but one does not need to spend much time on the Politics Board to see that term thrown around especially with Pope Francis.

Quote:

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He noticeably did not dispute the facts of what I posted.

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What facts did you present in your first post? Do you even know what constitutes Liberation Theology? I do not necessarily disagree with your second post as what are often the causes of incessant poverty. My response to it was more of how you could jump to the conclusions about the intent of the author. Mark Shea can be very blunt in his post, maybe too blunt for his own good. I'm certain his intent was not to impugn "hard working & responsible" people who try to live moral lives. I believe the purpose of Shea's post was a response to two ideas one was regularly seeing concerning Hefner's passing; 1) The seeming praise of his hedonistic life style (one in which I was somewhat guilty of myself) and 2) something that I believe is a response to the first, the thoughts similar to those expressed by aggiesuite in the initial post of this thread.

jkag89 said:

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What facts did you present in your first post? Do you even know what constitutes Liberation Theology?

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I bet I know the answer to this question!

GoHomeLeg said:

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I understand your point but I'm pretty sure no one is going to LOL about eternal life separated from God.

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Wasn't laughing about that. I was laughing at the holier than thou attitude some are taking here. Whatever Hugh Hefner did or didn't do is between him and the Lord. Only the Lord can know someone's heart and judge based on that fact.

Yea, Hugh was a skeevey dude but his eternal salvation and the fate of his soul is between him and God. The rest of you guys need to look at yourselves before looking at other people's souls and determining where they will rest for eternity.

Ags4DaWin said:

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GoHomeLeg said:

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I understand your point but I'm pretty sure no one is going to LOL about eternal life separated from God.

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Wasn't laughing about that. I was laughing at the holier than thou attitude some are taking here. Whatever Hugh Hefner did or didn't do is between him and the Lord. Only the Lord can know someone's heart and judge based on that fact.

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Are you familiar with this board? Or most Christians in general?

GeorgePlimpton said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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GoHomeLeg said:

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I understand your point but I'm pretty sure no one is going to LOL about eternal life separated from God.

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Wasn't laughing about that. I was laughing at the holier than thou attitude some are taking here. Whatever Hugh Hefner did or didn't do is between him and the Lord. Only the Lord can know someone's heart and judge based on that fact.

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Are you familiar with this board? Or most Christians in general?

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Not so much this board, though I have posted here a couple of times.

I try to stay away from most Christian moral discussions because I am all too familiar with the type. Occasionally I will venture forth from my self imposed exile to find that for the most part they have not changed and promptly go back to ignoring them again.