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"A Generous man will prosper, and he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed."
"One who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, And He will repay him for his good deed."
Yes...but nowhere does it say "with money". Why are you so concerned over the idea that you may not be repaid in kind? Are you worried that the reward God gives you might not be as good as material wealth?
I thought from my post above that it was clear that I was not simply talking about money. You're correct that it nowhere says "with money". However, it doesn't
exclude money either. I wasn't necessarily trying to focus on money, I'm just focusing on the principle here: Be good/kind/generous/forgiving/merciful to others, and people will be good/kind/generous/forgiving/merciful to
you. That may include a material benefit to you, or it may lead to a more peaceful and fruitful relationship with each other. If I am pleasant to someone and they treat me like crap, yeah, I'll be disappointed. But I won't change how I act. Pragmatically, regardless of the quality of his work (within reason) everyone likes the fun, kind, generous gal who brings doughnuts to work on Friday, and loathes the inconsiderate and rude one of the office, even if his work is excellent. Why not be both the excellent employee and the generous, loving soul?
I'm not concerned about being "repaid in kind." But don't act like those proverbs exclude that you can benefit in some way. There are plenty of proverbs that deal with how foolish words and foolish actions come around to the ruin of the one who committed them. I've heard it called "Karma", "What goes around, comes around", or "You reap what you sow". That can be negative reaping, or a positive one. It can be a negative material reaping, or a positive one as well.
And to answer your last question, no I am not concerned. Why do you always assume the worst of me?
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No, but that is who I look to take care of first. I first take care of my family, then my family in the faith, and then the rest of humanity, starting with those close and moving further away.
I'm not sure that this approach is scriptural... but I'm also not sure it's wrong, as phrased. It depends on if you would not help person A to help person B on account of that one or the other exists in a different relationship to you. I'm not sure this is supportable if that's the case, because all men have an equal status before God.
I think you are nitpicking at me here when pragmatically, you have no problems with my outlook.
In other words, I am not able to help everyone, so I have to be more selective in who I try to help. I first have to help my family: "A man who does not provide for his family had denied the faith is worse than an infidel". That means my wife and children. Next, I look to my extended family, parents, siblings, etc. "Honor your father and mother..." Then, I look to members of my congregation whom I can assist. Following that, I look increasingly outward.
The reason I primarily try to help those close enough is so that I can see the results of my aid. I want to help people so that they will
not need my help, rather than have them come to rely on my help or even worse, abuse my assistance. If the aid is given directly, I can see it. If it is with a local organization, I have less visibility of the results. If the organization is helping people far away, it is very difficult to confirm what they're actually
doing with the resources given them. So if family, congregation, or acquaintances waste the resources that I have provided them, I should forgive them. But that does not mean I continue to give aid to them, in keeping with the idea of stewardship.
To be clear, I'm not talking about not rendering aid to someone who is in dire straights (sick, wounded, etc). I'm referring to charity and aid. If my brother approaches me and says he can't make rent, and I
give him $1000, only to see a week later that he has bought an Xbox and a 70 inch TV with the money I gave him, barring repentance, I'm going to be more hesitant to aid him again. I have limited resources. Even if I was a millionaire, multi-millionaire, or even a billionaire, there is only so much that I can do so I have to wisely allocate my aid.
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Now, do I personally believe if their motives were purely about helping in others in their work, will God not at the least remember them for it? Yes. Do I also believe that there is a practical, component to this in our lives here? Yes, see the quote above. As Christ said, "Give, and it will be given to you; a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over--will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you." If you give out mercy, mercy will be given to you. Judgement? you will be judged harshly. Kindness? People will give it back to you. Generosity? People will be generous to you.
Man, this philosophy is so insidious. No one is saying you can't be nice, or wise, or a good businessman. The problem is mixing, adulterating good, true teachings with the reward of our Faith
How so? Is
everything put off until that which is to come? You say it is. I say it isn't.
As you pointed out below, Christ himself said to treat others the way
you would want to be treated. So if I treat people well, I would hope that they would do so to me. If they don't return the action/sentiment, I should continue to do so. As a marketing guy, I deal with clients of status and personalities. My personal philosophy is to treat people the way
they want to be treated. When I do so, I find that I have few problems dealing with them and more productive relationships. Is that philosophy pragmatic, or even selfish? Yes. Does it also put their needs ahead of my own, because sometimes I have to chit-chat a client rather than work, or I have to suck up to someone I would rather not suck up to? Yes.
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You always talk about context. Can we put that quote in context? Bolded part is my own:
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A
Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God.
Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied.
Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.
Blessed are you when men hate you, and ostracize you, and insult you, and scorn your name as evil, for the sake of the Son of Man. Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven. For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.
B
But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full.
Woe to you who are well-fed now, for you shall be hungry.
Woe to you who laugh now, for you shall mourn and weep.
Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers used to treat the false prophets in the same way.
C
But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. Treat others the same way you want them to treat you.
D
If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.
If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.
If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount.
E
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measurepressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return."
By my read we have a few themes here to learn. A and B are blessings contrasted with woes. Then we have a teaching -- section C, kindness in the face of adverse situations, followed by an explanation, D about C. The last part, E, is a culmination of the teaching.
A stands alone, B stands alone, I think these need no explanation (although they should be challenging to all of us, I think).
I'm not so sure they stand alone, but that is an entirely different discussion.
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C says when someone is cruel, be kind.
D says if we're only nice to nice, it's not worth anything. I don't think it's a stretch to say if we work hard at our jobs to be excellent or make money, it's not worth anything -- "even sinners do this". It's the same lesson from Luke 11 / Matthew 7 (ask, seek, knock). Note that He doesn't say it's BAD -- this is the false dichotomy shown over and over again in this thread. It's not bad to lend and expect to receive, to labor and expect compensation. It's just of no credit to you.
When have I said anything opposed to this? While I
do expect some sort of reciprocity if I treat people a certain way, if I do not receive it in return I am
not going to change my behavior to them. So no, I am not just speaking about being nice to nice.
If you are helpful and pleasant to others in addition to doing your job well I'd be willing to bet that you would be promoted or otherwise honored, if not respected at your place of work. Is God
directly blessing you with his hand? Or are you simply
applying his teaching to his life and seeing the fruit thereof? You tell me.
One thing to consider: When he is saying "Do X, and Receive X", he is clearing saying do X towards me. Now, are we receiving X from men, God, or both? My answer is both. It appears that you lean towards the idea that it is only God that we will be receiving X from, but not in this life.
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How you can read that passage and walk away imagining that this has anything to do with material gain or somehow justifies this idea that if we're good Christians we will get material rewards is beyond me. Christ is saying give love, give mercy, give charity, give grace, give forgiveness, and it will be given to you.
He doesn't
exclude any sort of material gain. Basically, look at the
principle he is talking about:
He who Blesses others shall be blessed.
A generous man will prosper.
Treat others the way you want to be treated.
For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.
What you sow unto to others you will reap.
Do those things as if you were not going to get anything in return. If I am being treated poorly by one who I am kind and generous to, God will remember and reward me. If someone is rude to me, but my kindness/generousitiy to them causes them to change their treatment of me, does it nullify any rememberance or reward that God has for me?
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The whole challenge is to be peculiar and different, and if we expect God to reward our meager generosity in kind, we will have received our reward in full.
No. He said "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by others.
Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full."If I am simply being kind to be seen as a kind person, it is meaningless to God. If I am kind because I think they deserve it, then we're talking about an entirely different mindset - even if that act of kindness was in public.
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"Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others
to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven."
2 So when you give to the needy,
do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets,
to be honored by others. Truly I tell you,
they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you."
This whole passage is referring to what I've seen called "virtue signaling". The idea being that you are doing virtuous deeds not for the benefit of the recipient, but because you want to be
seen by others as virtuous. If your goal is to be perceived as a good guy, so you make your generosity/kindness public, sure, people will assume you are a good guy. You have seen your reward. But you have not moved the needle at all with God.
I've seen some translation that add the word "openly" to "So that your giving may be in secret, and then your father who sees what is done in secret will reward
openly" and in the next paragraph regarding prayer as well. I don't automatically assume a
material reward, but I don't exclude it either.
