Did you read Aggrad's link?
Earth's age at 6000 yrs
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Last: 7 yr ago by AstroAg17
quote:
And although there is a lot that catastrophic plate tectonics can't explain, it also explains a lot that conventional plate tectonics cannot. For example, at present rates of continental drift, there's not enough energy present to create today's major mountain chains. They require that the continents to have collided at much higher velocities than we see today.
Do you have a link/research that backs up this claim?
quote:Those are interesting points. Granted, I know very, very little about geology and oceanography, but if all of the flora an fauna were killed off by worldwide floods that were 29,000 feet high, how is new oxygen created?
This is a fun question. But to play devil's advocate would the oxygen content just be higher from the displaced air. Also pushing the all the layers up 29K feet? But now the volume of the earth has changed but not the amount of air so maybe it would be much thinner?
What about the extreme pressure of all that weight covering everything? Would it cause earthquakes after the water was gone? Volcanic activity?
How did new species of trees, bushes, etc. all grow back so quickly?
And yes, I am being lazy and not googling it, but I did look at what Really??? mentioned and it would seem to me that if these floods caused all of these mountains and tectonic shifts, why aren't we seeing more of that with the ground covered by the ocean?
Because it explains in detail the major problems with YEC geology in a succinct manner.
quote:quote:No. It's something that Baumgardner told me personally, and subsequently confirmed to me by other geophysicists and geologists.
Do you have a link/research that backs up this claim?
Which type of mountains?
quote:https://canyongorge.org/quote:If memory serves me right, Baumgardner specifically mentioned the Himalayas. But I think the point would apply to any modern mountain chain created by continental collision.
Which type of mountains?
Don't press too hard because I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a geologist or geophysicist, and my conversation with Baumgardner was about 10 years ago while he was still working for Los Alamos.
By the way, these idiots Austin and Baumgardner were the first to predict that the Grand Canyon would be proven to have been carved by catastrophic flooding, not slow erosion. At that time, they were ridiculed, but now that idea is gaining credence within the secular geological community and is close to becoming the majority view.
A WHOPPING 5-6 days of a local flood gave us the Comal County Canyon Gorge. I can guarantee you if it had not been observed but "discovered" these geniuses would be telling you it was the result of millions of years of erosion. As you can see the web-site follows the flawed science even in the face of actual events.
I guess God is "tricking" people with what they call "appearance of age".
What if Adam had evidence of childhood illness, or injury?
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html
quote:
Runaway subduction. John Baumgardner created the runaway subduction model, which proposes that the pre-Flood lithosphere (ocean floor), being denser than the underlying mantle, began sinking. The heat released in the process decreased the viscosity of the mantle, so the process accelerated catastrophically. All the original lithosphere became subducted; the rising magma which replaced it raised the ocean floor, causing sea levels to rise and boiling off enough of the ocean to cause 150 days of rain. When it cooled, the ocean floor lowered again, and the Flood waters receded. Sedimentary mountains such as the Sierras and Andes rose after the Flood by isostatic rebound. [Baumgardner, 1990a;Austin et al., 1994]
- The main difficulty of this theory is that it admittedly doesn't work without miracles. [Baumgardner, 1990a, 1990b] The thermal diffusivity of the earth, for example, would have to increase 10,000 fold to get the subduction rates proposed [Matsumura, 1997], and miracles are also necessary to cool the new ocean floor and to raise sedimentary mountains in months rather than in the millions of years it would ordinarily take.
- Baumgardner estimates a release of 1028 joules from the subduction process. This is more than enough to boil off all the oceans. In addition, Baumgardner postulates that the mantle was much hotter before the Flood (giving it greater viscosity); that heat would have to go somewhere, too.
- Cenozoic sediments are post-Flood according to this model. Yet fossils from Cenozoic sediments alone show a 65-million-year record of evolution, including a great deal of the diversification of mammals and angiosperms. [Carroll, 1997, chpts. 5, 6, & 13]
- Subduction on the scale Baumgardner proposes would have produced very much more vulcanism around plate boundaries than we see. [Matsumura, 1997]
quote:quote:If memory serves me right, Baumgardner specifically mentioned the Himalayas. But I think the point would apply to any modern mountain chain created by continental collision.
Which type of mountains?
Don't press too hard because I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a geologist or geophysicist, and my conversation with Baumgardner was about 10 years ago while he was still working for Los Alamos.
By the way, these idiots Austin and Baumgardner were the first to predict that the Grand Canyon would be proven to have been carved by catastrophic flooding, not slow erosion. At that time, they were ridiculed, but now that idea is gaining credence within the secular geological community and is close to becoming the majority view.
Actually, the current consensus view is that there were two smaller canyons about 40 million years old that combined and formed by the Colorado over the last 5-6 million combined with the effects of floods.
And Aggrad's link uses the Grand Canton to demonstrate how absurd it is to try and claim that the strata seen formed in a single flood.
quote:
Yeah, OA, the argument that God somehow tricked us is not a very good argument since God told us what he did. It's a "trick" only if you don't believe God and insist on looking at the evidence from only one perspective. That God most likely created Adam as an adult can in no reasonable fashion be construed as a "trick".
Actually, fossils would be a tremendous trick. They take millions of years to form. There's no way to get around that.
It's amazing how people can believe things that are readily disproved. There are ten ways in which their model fails not the least of which is boiling the oceans and still they cling. Why even play at science? If you won't let evidence change your views why even bother with it.
We aren't talking about "Not perfect" we are talking about a hilarious failure that would destroy the whole planet for starters, and fails to explain mountains of evidence.
And show me one strawman in that article. Show me that YECS can address those issues.
We aren't talking about "Not perfect" we are talking about a hilarious failure that would destroy the whole planet for starters, and fails to explain mountains of evidence.
And show me one strawman in that article. Show me that YECS can address those issues.
quote:It starts with the mayonnaise.quote:
Chevyboxer 11:55p, 4/4/15
Are we just posting crazy stuff in this thread
Stacy's Deviled Eggs
How do you link like this on texags? I've never taken the time to figure it out.
Check out this bit of fairy tale handwaving about how the freshwater fish survived the "Flood":
http://www.icr.org/article/fish-flood/
But what about the fish and other marine creatures? Obviously, they weren't taken on board the Ark. How could they survive, particularly both fresh and saltwater forms?
As a matter of fact, most of them didn't survive. Over 95 percent of all fossils are marine creatures. They died and are fossilized by the trillions. Many are buried in great fossil graveyards, tightly packed together, choked with sediments, buried before they had time to decay. Obviously, they didn't live in the environment in which they died. They were transported by rapidly moving water and then buried in sedimentary deposits. But how could any have survived?
In the complex of events and conditions that made up the Flood, certainly there were pockets of fresh water at any one time. Remember, it was raining in torrents, and we can expect that the rain water was fairly fresh. Many studies have shown that waters of various temperatures, chemistries, and sediment loads do not tend to mix; they tend to remain segregated in zones. It would be unlikely for any one area to retain such zones for very long during the tumult of the Flood, but on a worldwide scale, some such segregated zones would have existed at any given time.
The pre-Flood oceans were likely somewhat salty, although not as salty as now. Furthermore, we don't know the tolerance levels of pre-Flood fish for sediment, salt, and temperature. Modern fish have a great variety of responses to different environments. Perhaps before the Flood, fish were even more adaptable.
There is also the possibility that great amounts of vegetation were dislodged from the pre-Flood continents and remained intertwined as floating mats during the Flood. Many creationists feel that the decay and abrasion of these mats are responsible for our major coal seams, but underneath these mats the turbulence of the surface waters would have been lessened. Perhaps many fish found shelter and nutrition under them, as insects may have on the mats themselves.
Even though there is much we don't know about what went on during the Flood, we can see that there is at least a plausible answer that can be proposed to such questions. There is no reason for Christians to doubt the truth of the great Flood. Even difficult questions have answers.
* Dr. Morris is President of the Institute for Creation Research.
Cite this article: Morris, J. 2011. Fish in the Flood. Acts & Facts. 40 (5): 16.
http://www.icr.org/article/fish-flood/
But what about the fish and other marine creatures? Obviously, they weren't taken on board the Ark. How could they survive, particularly both fresh and saltwater forms?
As a matter of fact, most of them didn't survive. Over 95 percent of all fossils are marine creatures. They died and are fossilized by the trillions. Many are buried in great fossil graveyards, tightly packed together, choked with sediments, buried before they had time to decay. Obviously, they didn't live in the environment in which they died. They were transported by rapidly moving water and then buried in sedimentary deposits. But how could any have survived?
In the complex of events and conditions that made up the Flood, certainly there were pockets of fresh water at any one time. Remember, it was raining in torrents, and we can expect that the rain water was fairly fresh. Many studies have shown that waters of various temperatures, chemistries, and sediment loads do not tend to mix; they tend to remain segregated in zones. It would be unlikely for any one area to retain such zones for very long during the tumult of the Flood, but on a worldwide scale, some such segregated zones would have existed at any given time.
The pre-Flood oceans were likely somewhat salty, although not as salty as now. Furthermore, we don't know the tolerance levels of pre-Flood fish for sediment, salt, and temperature. Modern fish have a great variety of responses to different environments. Perhaps before the Flood, fish were even more adaptable.
There is also the possibility that great amounts of vegetation were dislodged from the pre-Flood continents and remained intertwined as floating mats during the Flood. Many creationists feel that the decay and abrasion of these mats are responsible for our major coal seams, but underneath these mats the turbulence of the surface waters would have been lessened. Perhaps many fish found shelter and nutrition under them, as insects may have on the mats themselves.
Even though there is much we don't know about what went on during the Flood, we can see that there is at least a plausible answer that can be proposed to such questions. There is no reason for Christians to doubt the truth of the great Flood. Even difficult questions have answers.
* Dr. Morris is President of the Institute for Creation Research.
Cite this article: Morris, J. 2011. Fish in the Flood. Acts & Facts. 40 (5): 16.
How dare you question what God has given Creationists no good answers to!
quote:When their logic is to have none, you know they will invent some way around the physical proof. Just give the five minutes to think about it.quote:
Yeah, OA, the argument that God somehow tricked us is not a very good argument since God told us what he did. It's a "trick" only if you don't believe God and insist on looking at the evidence from only one perspective. That God most likely created Adam as an adult can in no reasonable fashion be construed as a "trick".
Actually, fossils would be a tremendous trick. They take millions of years to form. There's no way to get around that.
quote:quote:When their logic is to have none, you know they will invent some way around the physical proof. Just give the five minutes to think about it.quote:
Yeah, OA, the argument that God somehow tricked us is not a very good argument since God told us what he did. It's a "trick" only if you don't believe God and insist on looking at the evidence from only one perspective. That God most likely created Adam as an adult can in no reasonable fashion be construed as a "trick".
Actually, fossils would be a tremendous trick. They take millions of years to form. There's no way to get around that.
Hey dude, you threw a massive fit about wanting an answer to some jaggoff post you regurgitated, but then disappeared. Mom's WiFi on the fritz?
quote:Decided I'm above arguing with someone that rationalizes priest raping children. Thanks for helping me get to that point.quote:quote:When their logic is to have none, you know they will invent some way around the physical proof. Just give the five minutes to think about it.quote:
Yeah, OA, the argument that God somehow tricked us is not a very good argument since God told us what he did. It's a "trick" only if you don't believe God and insist on looking at the evidence from only one perspective. That God most likely created Adam as an adult can in no reasonable fashion be construed as a "trick".
Actually, fossils would be a tremendous trick. They take millions of years to form. There's no way to get around that.
Hey dude, you threw a massive fit about wanting an answer to some jaggoff post you regurgitated, but then disappeared. Mom's WiFi on the fritz?
quote:
Very Christlike.
I'll go to confession
Apparently you're allowed to make logical fallacies and ignore evidence also. God's pretty ok with poor actions and thinking.
quote:My bad, I confused two competing constructions that are shoehorned to fit the Bible in contradiction to the actual evidence.
Really???, if you're going to summarize YEC arguments, you might make at least some attempt to get them right.
I don't know of any serious YEC that believes that receding flood waters built the mountains. Most YEC geologists believe that some of the older and lower mountain chains probably existed before the flood. However, most of the younger mountain chains were built during and after the flood, most likely as a result of catastrophic plate tectonics, an idea first propounded by John Baumgardner.
quote:God opened up an air pocket much like what the Aliens did under deep ocean water for Ed Harris in The Abyss.
Going back to the flood for a moment, is it the stance of YEC's that every piece of inhabitable land was covered by water?
If so, does that mean that the water level reached 29,000 feet? If so, how did anybody breathe at that altitude for an extended period of time?
But, much larger.
quote:YEC's just love to hang on to this one. Like its this big wrench.quote:https://canyongorge.org/quote:If memory serves me right, Baumgardner specifically mentioned the Himalayas. But I think the point would apply to any modern mountain chain created by continental collision.
Which type of mountains?
Don't press too hard because I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a geologist or geophysicist, and my conversation with Baumgardner was about 10 years ago while he was still working for Los Alamos.
By the way, these idiots Austin and Baumgardner were the first to predict that the Grand Canyon would be proven to have been carved by catastrophic flooding, not slow erosion. At that time, they were ridiculed, but now that idea is gaining credence within the secular geological community and is close to becoming the majority view.
A WHOPPING 5-6 days of a local flood gave us the Comal County Canyon Gorge. I can guarantee you if it had not been observed but "discovered" these geniuses would be telling you it was the result of millions of years of erosion. As you can see the web-site follows the flawed science even in the face of actual events.
I guess God is "tricking" people with what they call "appearance of age".
Tiny wrench would be the correct word considering it's size.
quote:The air column would be raised also. Breathing wouldn't be a problem in this fantastical hypothetical.quote:God opened up an air pocket much like what the Aliens did under deep ocean water for Ed Harris in The Abyss.
Going back to the flood for a moment, is it the stance of YEC's that every piece of inhabitable land was covered by water?
If so, does that mean that the water level reached 29,000 feet? If so, how did anybody breathe at that altitude for an extended period of time?
But, much larger.
Also maybe God used one of these:
quote:Yeah - Actual observed events. Irony. "Hang in" there slime over time.quote:YEC's just love to hang on to this one. Like its this big wrench.quote:https://canyongorge.org/quote:If memory serves me right, Baumgardner specifically mentioned the Himalayas. But I think the point would apply to any modern mountain chain created by continental collision.
Which type of mountains?
Don't press too hard because I am not nor have I ever claimed to be a geologist or geophysicist, and my conversation with Baumgardner was about 10 years ago while he was still working for Los Alamos.
By the way, these idiots Austin and Baumgardner were the first to predict that the Grand Canyon would be proven to have been carved by catastrophic flooding, not slow erosion. At that time, they were ridiculed, but now that idea is gaining credence within the secular geological community and is close to becoming the majority view.
A WHOPPING 5-6 days of a local flood gave us the Comal County Canyon Gorge. I can guarantee you if it had not been observed but "discovered" these geniuses would be telling you it was the result of millions of years of erosion. As you can see the web-site follows the flawed science even in the face of actual events.
I guess God is "tricking" people with what they call "appearance of age".
Tiny wrench would be the correct word considering it's size.
Can you at all demonstrate that the Grand Canyon sits on a similar fault and is made of the same materials? Can you point to any other canyons formed in the same way?
quote:Oh, so because it doesn't work for your model/beliefs it's my fault I wasn't around to observe when the Grand Canyon was formed? I'll take Chinese Water Torture formed canyons for $500, Alex.
Can you at all demonstrate that the Grand Canyon sits on a similar fault and is made of the same materials? Can you point to any other canyons formed in the same way?
The Toutle "Little Grand Canyon", over 120 feet deep, formed during Mt. St. Helens eruption. I pointed.
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