Do you believe in the Great Flood story?

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Cancelled
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6:10p, 2/22/15
AG
I don't believe in the literal worldwide flood or in the liberal creation story. I believe these stories were used to convey a message to people who were not knowledgable of physics, biology, genetics, quantum theory, etc.

I struggle a lot with my faith. I don't understand the reason for these threads other than for atheists to destroy the beliefs of the believers. They serve no other purpose. I don't understand why atheists needs to crush others' beliefs.
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Jacques
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In reply to Cancelled • 6:17p, 2/22/15
quote:
I don't believe in the literal worldwide flood or in the liberal creation story. I believe these stories were used to convey a message to people who were not knowledgable of physics, biology, genetics, quantum theory, etc.

I struggle a lot with my faith. I don't understand the reason for these threads other than for atheists to destroy the beliefs of the believers. They serve no other purpose. I don't understand why atheists needs to crush others' beliefs.


For some reason there's a comfort in it. Believers have the same issue.

Other people believing is reassuring. And it's reassuring you're not alone in not believing.
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In reply to Jacques • 6:42p, 2/22/15
AG
You get a blue star
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Aggrad08
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7:02p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
I struggle a lot with my faith. I don't understand the reason for these threads other than for atheists to destroy the beliefs of the believers. They serve no other purpose. I don't understand why atheists needs to crush others' beliefs.
Do you value truth? I see no reason beyond that needed to not entertain such ideas. Atheist argue for what they believe to be true, just like everyone else. That in this instance christians (who are some sort of literalist) are completely incapable of defending their belief provides strong evidence where the truth lies. Maybe that "crushes" their faith, maybe it merely informs it.
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8:25p, 2/22/15
AG
I'm not good with metaphysical issues. But, I do know that no matter what enlightenment I ever have regarding Jesus and God, I will not believe in the literal flood event and genesis

But, why do you care? Christians believe that they must minister to the non-believers. There is no such doctrine for atheists. Why the fervent attempts to convert believers to non-believers?
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boboguitar
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In reply to Cancelled • 8:30p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
I'm not good with metaphysical issues. But, I do know that no matter what enlightenment I ever have regarding Jesus and God, I will not believe in the literal flood event and genesis

But, why do you care? Christians believe that they must minister to the non-believers. There is no such doctrine for atheists. Why the fervent attempts to convert believers to non-believers?


Why do you think he's trying to convert? He's showing why some ideas have contradictory data that can't be thrown away.
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Jacques
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 8:30p, 2/22/15
quote:
quote:
I struggle a lot with my faith. I don't understand the reason for these threads other than for atheists to destroy the beliefs of the believers. They serve no other purpose. I don't understand why atheists needs to crush others' beliefs.
Do you value truth? I see no reason beyond that needed to not entertain such ideas. Atheist argue for what they believe to be true, just like everyone else. That in this instance christians (who are some sort of literalist) are completely incapable of defending their belief provides strong evidence where the truth lies. Maybe that "crushes" their faith, maybe it merely informs it.


There's all kinds of truths we, or at least I, don't beat to death. I don't see much point in trying to convince someone this flood didn't happen.

What's it to you if they believe it?
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Aggrad08
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9:04p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
There's all kinds of truths we, or at least I, don't beat to death.
It's a falsehood not a truth. And what falsehoods to we let stand? What good comes from lies?

quote:
I don't see much point in trying to convince someone this flood didn't happen.
Why not? You educated a person. Do you see good in truth and bad in lies?

quote:
What's it to you if they believe it?
Believe what you wish. Again, we all argue for what we think to be true. It's an R&P board. Go elsewhere if you don't want to see christianity challenged.
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Jacques
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9:09p, 2/22/15
Can I take it from this you dedicate yourself completely to addressing any and all lies? With equal time to all lies? Or are there lies that matter more to you?

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SapperAg
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In reply to Jacques • 9:10p, 2/22/15
AG
Ironic post.
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Aggrad08
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9:29p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
Can I take it from this you dedicate yourself completely to addressing any and all lies?
Ugh. Not near as dedicated as you are to playing goalie for christians and republicans. It's an R&P board, on this board I will pretty consistently comment on something I believe untrue. For someone who argues incessantly over the most trivial remarks within a much broader OP I'm not sure why you take issue.

quote:
With equal time to all lies? Or are there lies that matter more to you?
Of course some matter more than others. Why in your opinion should this one matter so little as to let go unchallenged? Especially being as it's posted on an R&P board.

I hardly get the notion of people complaining about contrary opinions in such a setting.
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Jacques
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9:33p, 2/22/15
Truth by itself is hardly a reason to spend time here pounding a subject over and over. It's more than truth that brings you here. These are truths that are more important to you. Why deny that or the reasons why?
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Jacques
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In reply to SapperAg • 9:36p, 2/22/15
quote:
Ironic post.


Why? I have my reasons for going after the posters I do when I catch the spreading lies.
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Aggrad08
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9:43p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
Truth by itself is hardly a reason to spend time here pounding a subject over and over.
Why does anyone do it that spends time here. It's of interest or importance to them. If the big questions didn't interest people here they wouldn't discuss them. Just as people who don't care about football wouldn't bother with the premium board. You are only complaining since you like playing goalie for christians for whatever reason.

quote:
It's more than truth that brings you here. These are truths that are more important to you. Why deny that or the reasons why?
Of course you managed to miss right above where I say of course some truths are more important than others. And the truth or falsity of religion seems pretty high given how large a part of people's lives it can be.
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Jacques
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9:45p, 2/22/15
You claimed truth alone was the reason. It may a reason. But it's not the only one. These are things that matter to you more than others. That's 100% okay. There's a reason for that. And that reason is probably okay too. Why deny it?
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Jacques
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9:46p, 2/22/15
Believing in a flood or not is not a big deal. Turning away medical help due to faith...that's a big deal.
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bigtatum
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In reply to Jacques • 9:49p, 2/22/15
Another thread derail complete
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Jacques
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9:54p, 2/22/15
Someone else asked the question. It's valid. Just as bizarre as why people believe this is why it bothers some so much that others believe this.

In a world full of idiotic beliefs and conspiracy theories this one seems harmless.
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Aggrad08
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10:09p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
You claimed truth alone was the reason.
No I didn't. I consider it a sufficient reason to counter anything false noted on this board, but you in a spirited thread derail chose to complain about it.

quote:
It may a reason. But it's not the only one.
Just because truth is a sufficient reason doesn't mean it's the only one. I'm still not sure what your complaint is about. It's an effing R&P board and you expect such a notion to be unchallenged?

quote:
These are things that matter to you more than others. That's 100% okay. There's a reason for that. And that reason is probably okay too. Why deny it?
I never did. Nor did I imply otherwise. In fact I've twice told you so, so at this point so I think it rather strange you claim I've denied anything.

Frankly, I don't know what your complaint is.
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Jacques
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10:16p, 2/22/15
When you said you saw no reason beyond truth was necessary to start the debate I assumed you'd given us your reason.

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Jacques
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10:26p, 2/22/15
Here's why I think it matters.

There are a lot of people out there of faith that believe this stuff. They don't think much about it. It's probably not critical to their faith really. And they'd see that if they though about it.

But I don't really see a point in it. My family, for example, believes a lot a don't believe. I used to sort of argue the points. But I could see it made good people I loved feel bad. So I stopped.

I suppose here we should all have thicker skin. And I think we mostly do. But remember when you're out there as truth monitor that the people that believe these things are mainly good, harmless people. They're not hurting you. And what they believe isn't your business.

If you're keeping it strictly here...so much the better.
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Marco Esquandolas
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In reply to bigtatum • 10:46p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
Another thread derail complete
And unreadable. Again.
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Aggrad08
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11:06p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
There are a lot of people out there of faith that believe this stuff. They don't think much about it. It's probably not critical to their faith really. And they'd see that if they though about it.
Perhaps faith should be something we think more about.

quote:
But I don't really see a point in it. My family, for example, believes a lot a don't believe. I used to sort of argue the points. But I could see it made good people I loved feel bad. So I stopped.
If they are minding their business so am I. If they are coming to and R&P board and would be ill served by thinking about things critically or from a different point of view than this is a bad place for them.

quote:
I suppose here we should all have thicker skin. And I think we mostly do. But remember when you're out there as truth monitor that the people that believe these things are mainly good, harmless people. They're not hurting you. And what they believe isn't your business.
For ****s sake **IT AN R&P BOARD**. Complain about people discussing these issues by bringing up the subject with your grandma out of nowhere.

quote:
If you're keeping it strictly here...so much the better.
I keep it with people who bring it up. Most don't care about religion much and don't really think about it all too often. If someone brings it up I'm honest about what I think, and if anyone on a message board brings it up they sure as hell better intend to talk about it. Your complaint in the context of this board is absurd.


Is your thread derail over? Do you have anything to contribute about the actual subject? Or do you suggest we all not talk about it for fear of gentler sensibilities?
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Jacques
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11:14p, 2/22/15
You are an angry person.
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Aggrad08
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11:28p, 2/22/15
AG
You have that effect when you continually derail threads. Perhaps you can limit yourself to the actual discussions and not feel the need to derail every thread in an attempt to defend people you think incapable of doing it on their own. Your name is synonymous with thread derailment because you always do this. These aren't your family members, these are people coming to a message board.
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Jacques
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 11:31p, 2/22/15
quote:
You have that effect when you continually derail threads. Perhaps you can limit yourself to the actual discussions and not feel the need to derail every thread in an attempt to defend people you think incapable of doing it on their own. Your name is synonymous with thread derailment because you always do this. These aren't your family members, these are people coming to a message board.


I didn't ask the question that started this

It is a good question.

You are VERY angry about it.

The atheists on this board that dislike me prove nothing. Tatum dislikes people calling him and others on lies. So he coined the phrase.

Your point about truth was larger than thus board. Can I assume that in the real world you're not arrogant and nasty about what others believe?
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Aggrad08
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11:40p, 2/22/15
AG
quote:
I didn't ask the question that started this
I answered it, and had no anger to the questioner. You chose that moment for a derail.

quote:
The atheists on this board that dislike me prove nothing. Tatum dislikes people calling him and others on lies. So he coined the phrase.
Your thread derails extend well beyond him.
quote:
Your point about truth was larger than thus board. Can I assume that in the real world you're not arrogant and nasty about what others believe?
Nothing nasty was said here about flood believers. It's an R&P board and their claims were challenged.
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Jacques
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11:47p, 2/22/15
I think characterizing the story as a lie is arrogant and nasty. It implies the people spreading it know it's untrue.
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bigtatum
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11:51p, 2/22/15
It's an R&P board. Ideas are brought up. They are defended and challenged. This hasn't been a nasty thread. Just stop
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Aggrad08
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11:55p, 2/22/15
AG
It's a clear falsehood, call it what you wish. No one is claiming or has claimed that the theists beliefs aren't in earnest, you're reaching. It's merely been pointed out that mere cursory investigation into the claims thus far offered shows them to be greatly wanting.
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P.C. Principal
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11:56p, 2/22/15
Thread hi-Jacques'd.
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Jacques
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In reply to bigtatum • 11:56p, 2/22/15
quote:
It's an R&P board. Ideas are brought up. They are defended and challenged. This hasn't been a nasty thread. Just stop


I think characterizing something someone believes in as a lie gets us there.

That's nasty. No point to that comment. It's also arrogant and nasty to suggest educated people should not believe this stuff. It's faith. There are smart people that believe it.

At some point you'd think you'd have this debate enough to know how it goes. I mean, Sapper has called out the arguments before he's gotten them.

When you're at that point what is the point?
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Jacques
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In reply to Aggrad08 • 11:58p, 2/22/15
quote:
It's a clear falsehood, call it what you wish. No one is claiming or has claimed that the theists beliefs aren't in earnest, you're reaching. It's merely been pointed out that mere cursory investigation into the claims thus far offered shows them to be greatly wanting.


You called it a lie. Which suggests you think the people that believe and say so here are spreading it.
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nmb1993
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In reply to Jacques • 12:02a, 2/23/15
quote:
I think characterizing the story as a lie is arrogant and nasty. It implies the people spreading it know it's untrue.
It is most certainly appropriate to characterize the story as a lie because of the overwhelming evidence against any possibility of it actually being true. Claiming ignorance isn't sufficient defense when it comes to spreading lies. You can't just say whatever you want and expect it to not be questioned when the facts (or lack thereof) don't add up.
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Jacques
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In reply to P.C. Principal • 12:02a, 2/23/15
quote:
Thread hi-Jacques'd.


Was it going so well before?
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