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Funny how the sheeple blindly accept the left wing report on torture

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How sad that so many are willing to become what we despise in our enemy (or at least let others do the dirty work in our name) in order to defeat our enemy.

We would just have to differ jkag, my take is how sad it would be if we didn't do whatever was needed to save innocent lives, that is hardly becoming like the enemy, unless you believe that is why they do the crimes they do

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Funny how the sheeple blindly accept the left wing report on torture

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You mean the readily available reports where we can read what they did in graphic detail? Is that the "left wing report" or just the report. It's sad that conservatives by these silly euphemisms for torture and pretend it's actually an effective tool for gathering information.

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save innocent lives

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LOL

Back at you know it all

fahraint - You do not think our enemies have justified in their minds their acts of terrorism? I am most certain they believe their actions are a warranted, more so in that it is one of the few ways that they can really hurt us.

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It's sad that conservatives by these silly euphemisms for torture and pretend it's actually an effective tool for gathering information.

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It is equally silly that liberals will look the other way with President Obama's kill list.

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It is equally silly that our liberals will look the other way with President Obama's kill list.

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I agree, many do call him out on the left, but it's generally not democratic politicians doing so.

fahraint,

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I have no problem extracting information from terrorists who are committed to our destruction by whatever means necessary, especially if they are known to have information that could kill innocent Americans

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And I can understand this mindset from the world, but as Christians, this mindset is incompatible with our faith.

I assume, then, that you have no problem with the torture of US soldiers by their enemies as long as they do it to save lives on their side? Would you be okay with the Taliban torturing a US soldier if they thought doing so could prevent us from murdering innocents in another drone strike?

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Funny how the sheeple blindly accept the left wing report on torture

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Tribalism. Genetic fallacy. So much FAIL.

747Ag,
The thing I don't get about those questioning the credibility of the report because of the source is that they seem to be saying they believe the CIA. Not an organization exactly known for their truthfulness.

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Funny how the sheeple blindly accept the left wing report on torture

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Tribalism. Genetic fallacy. So much FAIL.

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Onceaggie really should stick to the politics board. I always feel bad for the people arguing on the same side as him. Some small part of me thinks he and agbeliever are really just malevolent Internet trolls trying to make neocons look bad.

That he called others out for being "sheeple" is just priceless.

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Onceaggie really should stick to the politics board. I always feel bad for the people arguing on the same side as him. Some small part of me thinks he and agbeliever are really just malevolent Internet trolls trying to make neocon conservatives look bad.

That he called others out for being "sheeple" is just priceless.

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True. If you're trying to couch the discussion within the duopoly's false left/right dichotomy, you've already turned yourself into a laughing stock.

With all dues respect y'all are not being very Christlike with your criticisms. Especially of those who aren't even posting here.

Merry Christmas

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With all dues respect y'all are not being very Christlike with your criticisms. Especially of those who aren't even posting here.

Merry Christmas

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It's ok, the knuckle draggers on the politics board are hominids without souls. Jesus doesn't care if we mock them.

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Onceaggie really should stick to the politics board. I always feel bad for the people arguing on the same side as him. Some small part of me thinks he and agbeliever are really just malevolent Internet trolls trying to make neocons look bad.

That he called others out for being "sheeple" is just priceless.

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Indeed there is a certain level of irony in Onceaggie's retort. However, I have little tolerance for being tossed under the rhetorical bus when my voting patterns probably are likely similar to his. I also have little tolerance for blind allegiance to a political organization or party (i.e. tribalism), which is something his post implies about him. On the other hand, maybe I'm just a "damn librul" because I don't partake of the Fox News Kool-Aid. (Really, I'm only about the maroon Kool-Aid.)

Hey I post on the politics board sometimes.

I don't think anyone would lump you in with him. I may not agree with all your conclusions, but at least you make the effort to actually think through things and don't deny the kinds of evidence that are actually observable. Whenever onceaggie gets backed into a corner instead of arguing his point he simply calls me an anti-christian bigot as if that were enough to invalidate anything I say.

The funny thing is I bet onceaggie and I have voted for the same people far more often than not... and yet he's convinced himself I'm a "lib" or whatever. I guess to some folks, you can't be conservative unless you are a social conservative.

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We would just have to differ jkag, my take is how sad it would be if we didn't do whatever was needed to save innocent lives, that is hardly becoming like the enemy, unless you believe that is why they do the crimes they do

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I find this thought process interesting, as people typically don't apply it to other situations. You are somehow including yourself as responsible (or at very least complicit) if you don't do everything possible to stop some activity.

But, if we look at something like poverty...not many people seem to hold themselves responsible for someone else's poverty. People are very quick to blame the poor person, or simply tell them rise above. We often do not say "how sad it is if we do whatever's necessary to save someone from a life of poverty".

Note: I am not insinuating that Fahraint believes this...I am just using his comments to frame my point.

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But, if we look at something like poverty...not many people seem to hold themselves responsible for someone else's poverty. People are very quick to blame the poor person, or simply tell them rise above. We often do not say "how sad it is if we do whatever's necessary to save someone from a life of poverty".

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Fascinating piece by Stossel on Fox today where he looked at capitalism vs charity/government spending benefits to the poor.

Pretty compelling evidence for capitalism.

This "must do whatever is necessary" mindset is eerily similar to the rationale Caiaphas used to torture and execute Jesus. Caiaphas said, "You know nothing at all, nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish."

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Fascinating piece by Stossel on Fox today where he looked at capitalism vs charity/government spending benefits to the poor.

Pretty compelling evidence for capitalism.

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I don't see it as a case of capitalism vs. charity. Yes, capitalism is a system that will help promote economic growth more, but charity is what, at least from the Christian perspective, we are called to engage in. It's great if the homeless and needy get some indirect benefit from living within a particular economic system, but it's just as important (if not more) that we directly go to them and provide them with what they need in the moment.

BTW, I'm not saying you are saying just to rely on capitalism and shun charity (I don't get an Ayn Rand feel from you ).

I agree

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Fascinating piece by Stossel on Fox today where he looked at capitalism vs charity/government spending benefits to the poor.

Pretty compelling evidence for capitalism.

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It was hardly evidence...he just said it like it was true. I'm not saying I disagree. However, capitalism IS a dual edged sword. It's primary motivator is greed. It sounds great in markets where there's competitive balance to ensure a good relationship between management and labor. It's awful in markets where it's skewed. Capitalism gives us sweat shops...and the potential to rise out of them.

However, my point still remains, and your comment only reinforces it...why do we treat them differently. Ultimately, why do we transfer the responsibility to ourselves, and not in other cases.

SOYLENT GREEN IS SHEEPLE!!!!

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I don't think anyone would lump you in with him. I may not agree with all your conclusions, but at least you make the effort to actually think through things and don't deny the kinds of evidence that are actually observable. Whenever onceaggie gets backed into a corner instead of arguing his point he simply calls me an anti-christian bigot as if that were enough to invalidate anything I say.

The funny thing is I bet onceaggie and I have voted for the same people far more often than not... and yet he's convinced himself I'm a "lib" or whatever. I guess to some folks, you can't be conservative unless you are a social conservative.

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Woody, my comment about being tossed under the bus was in regard to Onceaggie's "sheeple" comment. I wasn't reading you as grouping me with him. His comments rub me the wrong way, because they are dripping with condescension as well as a heavy dose of generalizing assumptions. It really strikes at one of my pet peeves: categorizing/labeling people rather than appreciating the unique person that is each individual.

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However, capitalism IS a dual edged sword. It's primary motivator is greed. It sounds great in markets where there's competitive balance to ensure a good relationship between management and labor. It's awful in markets where it's skewed. Capitalism gives us sweat shops...and the potential to rise out of them.

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This. It's not a great system, but it's better than any of the others out there.

I don't understand who we treat differently?

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I don't understand who we treat differently?

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I believe his point is that people say we have to do "everything possible" to keep Americans safe, but you don't seem to hear that we have to do "everything possible" to save people from poverty and homelessness.

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It really strikes at one of my pet peeves: categorizing/labeling people rather than appreciating the unique person that is each individual.

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Agree completely.

It so easy to slap a label on something to easily categorize it. It's the biggest reason why I can't spend much time on the politics board. Simply a refusal to view anything below a superficial level. And if there is gray area, oh lord....

Politics forum is just completely embarrassing. I am embarrassed for it.

I am sure a large percentage of the 3k killed on 9/11 were poor, I. E. Maids, janitors, secretaries, fire fighters etc.

So their safety is as big a concern as monetary status would not you say?

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Politics forum is just completely embarrassing. I am embarrassed for it.

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Some smart, knowledgeable folks over there. Also, there are some with a strong crazy streak. I can't take that forum too seriously. Life is too short.

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I am sure a large percentage of the 3k killed on 9/11 were poor, I. E. Maids, janitors, secretaries, fire fighters etc.

So their safety is as big a concern as monetary status would not you say?

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Well, the overwhelming majority of those killed by the US in these wars were poor. Far poorer than the "poor" you listed. But the point wasn't about low-paid workers. The point was about the truly poor in America. The homeless. The truly needy. Where is the "at all costs" mentality for those people? The ones living under bridges and in alleys? I believe that was the point. People say we have to do "everything possible" (including torture and killing of innocents) to keep up the facade of security, but there isn't the same sense of urgency for those that are truly needy.

Personally, I think it has less to do with saving American lives, although nobody is opposed to saving lives, but more about protecting the American standard of living. But that's just my opinion.