I agree that I might have been a little too defensive, but the point I was trying to get across was that we don't need people like bigsteve and other naysayers telling us that we're not worthy of a bonfire because of mistakes in the past. I just can't fathom why aggies would want to take away such a special tradition from present and future aggies.

gk - what's more likely here? The big old meanies simply want to take this away from you because we're jerks

OR

People are legitimately concerned about the safety of the new event because of what we went through five years ago tonight?

I know for me personally the big kicker is that the event is uninsured. I asked about a policy last year and they said there was one but couldn't discuss the details. That should set off all sorts of alarms in one's head.

NoAC - gk's rant was in response to those that perceive Student Bonfire as wholly illegitimate regardless of policies or practices. It was not in response to criticisms in any way related to safety. You're mixing apples and oranges.

Furthermore, if you'd like to discuss insurance and liability concerns (which are financial issues, not safety issues - having insurance does not make an activity safe, and not having insurance does not make it unsafe), come out to site and chat with the leadership.

[This message has been edited by Keegan99 (edited 11/17/2004 10:37p).]

Not getting into this with you Keegan

New folks- keep your eye on safety, but ignore the old farts who have nothing but jealously and too much time on their hands [notice they spend their time posting rather than building]. Also, be reassured in the fact that many of the naysayers of 2002 are now supporters. See yall at the service.

I'm on my way to the memorial to honor those we lost, then to stack, and then...


I'LL SEE YOU WHEN IT BURNS

Bonfire...
"for those who remember,
for those who will never forget,
and for a whole new generation."




(yes, its a stolen quote, but its still appropriate, BTHOB)

ESPN, LittleSteve, and anyone else thats not pro-bonfire.
Why the hell would you be in here if you weren't for it?!? Find something better to do with your time bc there are some of us that bust our $&$@#@ balls out there to put it up and have no time to talk crap about it.

BTHOB! See you when it burns!

dunnpot - because this isnt a forum for people to organize the off campus Bonfire perhaps?

Read the description.


That attitude continues to scare me. I think great strides have been made on the standpoint of safety, but every time I see something like that I can't help but think that nothing has changed culturally. I hope I'm wrong...

[This message has been edited by NoACDamnit (edited 11/18/2004 6:19p).]

quote:

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dunnpot - because this isnt a forum for people to organize the off campus Bonfire perhaps?

Read the description.

---

quote:

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Discussions, prayers and mutual support

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We were headed out of town tonight, driving up Hwy 6, and a jeep passed us filled with folks and a bunch of white pots in the back window. So, we followed it out to stack. Looks great! Can't wait 'til Saturday.

I'm not a safety expert, and I'm not going to bother weighing in on the off-campus bonfire. I just think it might be helpful if more people understood the primary policy rationale for not allowing bonfire to continue on campus (and its implications for a future return to campus). There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about that, and I suspect very few people have actually read Linbeck.

Bowen and the administration had virtually no choice in refusing to allow bonfire to continue on campus. The University could not possibly continue bonfire uninsured. The prospect of trying to insure the construction and burning of a massive, student-built fire that had fallen twice in five years and killed twelve young adults was beyond daunting -- it was insurmountable. The only reasonably insurable bonfire would have provoked ten times the "That ain't bonfire" response that the current iteration does. In short, it would have been professionally built with, relatively speaking, minimal student involvement. Bowen and the rest of the administration shared in the responsibility for the tragedy, but they were unfairly demonized by many for making a decision that they had to make.

The growing sentiment that bonfire could and should return to campus is understandable, but the mountain hasn't moved. Issues of safety-hence-liability-hence-insurability will likely prevent it from ever happening, at least in a form that old Ags will recognize as bonfire. The off-campus effort may prove a success in many ways, and it may indeed prove itself far safer than the original (as many who knew the old bonfire culture well have acknowledged). I just doubt it will serve as an impetus for policy change to the end of a University sanctioned/housed event. They can't condone what they can't stand behind (legally, financially, or ethically), nor should they. It seems highly unlikely that a student-led, student-built project of this nature will ever fit that bill again.

I don't offer that as an argument against student bonfire. I’ve just noted many, in this thread and elsewhere, who have invested a fair amount of hope in the prospect that the continuation of the tradition in some form will persuade the administration to formally embrace the tradition again. I suppose nothing is impossible, but it’s more than a long shot.

Yet the university system allows other system schools to have bonfires--and the one at Tarlteton specifically is quite large.

I think much hope come from the dedication ceremony which was highly probonfire. Including the comments from the Regent who spoke.

Never again on the scale before I agree. But I think someday it will return. If not, then we will just keep it off campus.

is anything going on today during the day? i would like to come and see it. i have steel toes but no pot. my pot is at my folks house.

I don't have a thorough familiarity with bonfires that burn at other system universities, but the ones I'm aware of are different in some key ways. Generally speaking, they are traditional bonfires in the sense that they are "piled" more than they are constructed. Students drag in all kinds of scrap wood (branches, old firewood, palettes, etc.), heave it on a big pile, and burn it. The band plays, the cheerleaders do “two bits,” and so on. We did this in high school, though I don’t doubt your suggestion that the fires at some A&M system schools like Tarleton are larger than your average high school homecoming bonfire.

That said, as far as I know (and my knowledge is certainly incomplete), there aren't hundreds (or thousands) of students participating in activities like cut and stack. The administration is probably a little less nervous with fewer students swinging axes and climbing around on a massive pile of logs held together by wire (or cables or whatever). I'm not touting the safety of these other bonfires – they may or may not be safer than what A&M could reasonably pull off on campus in the future. I'm just noting that the particular nature of Aggie bonfire lends itself to some higher risk and higher liability than a typical heap of burning scraps. The traditional ritual of bonfire includes a number of activities that, even with reasonable safety measures in place, exacerbate the liability issue for the University.

To be fair, I should clarify my earlier skepticism about the return of bonfire to campus this way: It’s not impossible, but it would require a great deal of compromise and change for folks committed to so many of the traditional aspects of Aggie bonfire. Frankly, even if the current off campus effort is every bit as safe as its proponents argue, it’s unlikely that the University would even be able to sanction that kind of process in the future. The safety measures are great, but it’s still a risky activity with a tainted history that is going to be nearly uninsurable. As most people here probably remember, some possibilities for a University-approved bonfire were discussed a few years ago. What they all had in common was professional labor and far less student responsibility and involvement. Understandably, those changes were unappealing to most Aggies who participated in bonfire.

Most would argue that the process of building bonfire is more important than the end result or the fire itself. Again, that’s completely understandable, but therein lays the dilemma – the very activities that make bonfire so enjoyable and important to so many are the same activities that put the University at great risk. A solution may exist, but it’s going to be a real challenge for everyone involved. Even if the University finds a way to invite bonfire back onto campus, the onus may ultimately be placed on pro-bonfire Aggies to make tough calls about the relative importance of process, location, and official affiliation. Consequently (and I think this is my only real bit of editorializing), I concur with those who are encouraging the new generation of bonfire-builders to, as much as possible, avoid defensive attitudes and posturing. Enjoy what you’re doing, but it is vital that you remain open to criticism and correction and that you embrace and demonstrate a fierce loyalty to safety above anything else, even tradition.


[This message has been edited by heythad97 (edited 11/19/2004 11:21a).]

I like your post, heythad97.

I am going to bonfire

my roommates are a bunch of shi*s and arent coming because "itll take too long to get out", or "it isnt bonfire"

really pisses me off

bunch of bandwagon ags




"There's a spirit, can ne'er be told...."

Some how some of you have come to think of me as not for bonfire....nothing could be further from the truth.

My only concern is for the safety of all those involved in the effort. I truly want bonfire to return to campus,..but I also want it to be University sanctioned. If it is, then it is assured to have the necessary monies invested to make sure that it is as safe as it can be,.........that's it. I have no doubt that every student and alumni wants bonfire to return to campus,...but I think the only way that happens is for the lawsuits to be setteled and the University to make the monetary committment to ensure the safety of everyone involved.

Until then, I see the "bonfire" to be a well intentioned substitute to a time honered tradition.....but not as safe as it could be...and that's my beef. No matter how many engineers or "experts" are on the site, the organizers of the student bonfire simply do not have the money to make it as safe as it could be.



[This message has been edited by Bigsteve (edited 11/20/2004 8:10p).]

Then put your money where your mouth is...

How do you suggest he do that??

Cool.

3rd Gen,
Nice to meet you the other day... it was a pleasure...

With that said, there are probably two reasons why they still allow Tarleton State and other schools in the system to build the bonfires - because 1) they haven't lost loved ones building it (which is the most powerful reason of all and 100% justified) and 2) they haven't given anyone a reason to believe that they are cutting corners and not following the rules.

On a side note, I would consider myself Pro-Bonfire and moreso Pro-Off-Campus Student Bonfire. The University got a big enough black eye by the last incident. Another accident would be the nail in the coffin, in the eyes of our peers and would essentially make us look foolish.

I think it is fine where it is now, until every single procedure is in place to ensure safety of those working on the stack.

I agree, I think having the off-campus bonfire just shows the achievement of students working together and that the bonfire was always about the students

I'm bumping some old posts from the past few years for those who would like more info, pics, and videos from previous bonfires.

i was a freshman at this burn

i want another go-round