Badger FTW.

excellent reply Badger! I have been trying to figure out for years why people think that it is unacceptable for 18 year olds to act like children. Frankly they are. Why must we leave behind some measure of irresponsability. I am not for the destruction of property but if a bunch of people want to make fools of themselves then I am for it. In fact, even after you graduate why should you all of a sudden "grow up". Of course there is a line to be drawn but I dont see anything wrong with being a little stupid when you have the chance.

[This message has been edited by chunks (edited 6/29/2009 3:57p).]

because sometimes acting stupid gets people hurt or killed, damages property, or is just blatantly disrespectful. Bonfire or not, I don't think that acting stupid because you're young is an acceptable behavior.

Now before all you start in with the "Ok [], so you've never done anything stupid??"...no, I have, but I certainly didn't attribute it to "being 18" and asking people write it off because of that.

than why just present this argument to the bonfire forum? go present it to other forums to.

every group will have a few people act up. it isn't going to change... so let it be. let the 'idiots' suffer the consequences later. let me suffer the consequences later. i am gonna have my fun NOW, im gonna be old army NOW, and you only get to go through your college life once... so let me do that NOW.

and to counter your next possible argument square one. i could have fun, 'be rowdy', and not get in trouble. therefore, it will not be a 'consequence' post graduation. many believe us bonfire folks are 'wild vikings whose goal is to set the campus on fire mindlessly' no, we are just rowdy and loud... and we speak our mind to the new army bull $H!T. there is nothing wrong with fighting in what you believe in.

wild vikings huh?

hell if yah think im a wild viking, than let me be it. im gonna keep building the hell outta bonfire year end and year out until i graduate. and when i do graduate, i promise you there will be another handful of freshmen coming through that will do the same.

thing is squareone, no matter what you say. no matter what people believe us bonfire folks are. we build the sole image of a&m that represents the "burning desire to btho tu" and chances are we will act the same and do the same (and more times that not, we walk around campus with character and do a lot for a&m).

squareone, and if you built bonfire... u didnt get the most out of it. bonfire builds brotherhood, it builds unity, and camaraderie. if one of my bonfire 'brothers' falls down, or gets attacked verbally... than i will be there to have their back, not tell how bad they are for the image of student bonfire or texas a&m. EVEN if they are from Crocker, HHH, Hart, FHK, and so on. it is obvious u didn't learn that (maybe you only actually went out to build the hell a few times, and went to burn). there are guys and girls like me who put their all into it. those people like me, knows the true definition of what BUILDING bonfire is about. those people will always be here.

that was cute, you little viking you...

i know. im a cute guy, what can i say? all the muscles i got from building the hell. whoop!

glad you've focused all those building muscles towards vikingary.

seriously though, what is ur point? why do u hafta go try to fight other ags for? why do u hafta try to get on the bad side of other ags for? its what ev. im done, im gonna go enjoy my fish sticks

enjoy your fish sticks, viking.

What am I fighting anybody about? I'm all for what you guys are doing in trying to keep the tradition, the positive aspects at least, alive.

For what it's worth, I have it on good account that Square met two of his best friends through dorm comraderie and through Bonfire. You guys are missing the point of each other's arguments. When I'm not posting from my phone in Iowa I will contribute more.

don't blow my cover Jayci! You know I despise good times, camaraderie, Texas A&M, Bonfire, and people in general!

Ok guys, this is really getting silly now and kind of pointless. Lets stop.

waltonloads11, everything you are saying about bonfire is right and yes, you are right for defending the organization. Good Bull. Just let it go.

Jayci, before I start.. I just wanna say I luv ya. We had quite the history. I think this whole argument was started by saying a lot of the bonfire folks are immature and idiots. I believe that isn't true. Sure we are stubborn and hard-headed, but we are not idiots. Right? You will have to agree with me on this one day, just read the thread. Squareone is probably being the most immature about this whole argument. Sure, waltonloads is being kinda immature, but he is defending his organization which he should. Squareone is just here getting everyone wild up. Jayci, I am pretty sure you know squareone, but you know me to. Don't hate me. I am just sticking up for my fish buddy and for all those who posted to defend the organization.

Thanks and Gig 'Em,
Jonathan 'Sonic' Nguyen '11

how am I being immature?

By doing the exact thing you're accusing "Bonfire folks" of doing: being stuck in your opinion without really reading into what others are saying.

I'm only "accusing" bonfire folks of doing things that they've actually done, and nobody's denied it and it I've even even provided specific examples.

And waltonloads11 provided facts and examples of the great student leaders of A&M that came out of student bonfire.

One of those examples you gave was me getting my shoulder dislocated. Well I hate to tell you, that was not bonfire fault. Sure, they wanted an item that was given to the most redass fish at bonfire that week. The thing was, they people that hurt me didn't go into the whole deal with their mindset wanting to hurt me. You could say it is like wrestling with your best friend or brother and an accident happened. That's what happened. It was an accident. I forgave them. I forgave all those who were involved and I became quite good friends with them. Plus as an added bonus, I had three lovely ladies deliver me a cake in their bathing suit. =D! whoop! Things happen, accidents happen. It just seems to me that you are more mad about the situation than I am and I was the "victim." The only thing I was mad about was the fact that I couldn't finish the last week of stack.

Just let it go. We are well aware of what we are doing. We will take responsibility for our actions and suffer the consequences. You could ridicule us and call us what you want, but we will always be and always will be the definition of old army and what being redass is. Guys like coop, guys like waltonloads, guys like fitch, girls like neeley12, and all those at cut, load, and stack will just always be at this campus.

You already proven that we are loud and rowdy. We get the point. We recognize that and it will not change.

Thanks and Gig 'Em,
Jonathan 'Sonic' Nguyen '11

sometimes when minor accidents turn into major accidents as a result of people messing around even thought hey don't intend to hurt anybody, it doesn't matter if you "take responsibility" and "accept the risk".

The last thing we as a university and you guys as an organization need is another tragedy. I know several precautionary measures have been taken to prevent history from entirely repeating itself, and I know you can never remove all element of danger from such an activity, but sometimes when you do the things like what happened to you, danger is invited into the situation without knowing the full risk involved.

quote:

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danger is invited into the situation without knowing the full risk involved

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same applies to getting out of bed. apples and oranges I know, so don't patronize me with some quick witted quip.

Sonic +1

I'm disappointed that some of you still believe that old tired worn out argument that doesn't make a bit of sense.

This isn't about the obvious risks of bonfire whether you care to admit them or not. Largely this discussion has been about bonfire people being perceived or viewed in or certain light and, from what it seems to me, bonfire people not understanding where these perceptions come from or thinking that those who view them that way have unjustified sentiments. I don't think the stubborn or hard headed image is as bothersome to you (there actually seems to be a great deal of pride in that...) as when people identify your reckless disrespectful behavior for what it is...reckless and disrespectful.

I suppose now would be yet another good time to point out that not only bonfire people do reckless stupid things, but when they (any group of people) do them together or at the job site if you will, then the behavior is in fact reflective upon the organization.

Let me get this straight. We are reckless? We are disrespectful?

Reckless at times. Yes. Disrespectful. Maybe. However, other than the Corps of Cadets (bonfire or not). The non-regs who does bonfire respects the traditions on campus more than anyone. We all try to NEVER miss a Silvertaps. We all go to Muster, dressed up in our church best (and a lot of us get dressed up for Silvertaps as well). We stand during the ENTIRE football game and the only time we sit will be after our Fightin' Texas Aggie Band walk off the field during halfime until our football team comes running back out. I haven't met an Aggie at bonfire who 'Boos' at game. Maybe you have and that could be your next argument. haha. At football games, we never leave early because we are losing. I know that me and my Walton buds stay until the final whistle blows and after. Each year, we go to the Bonfire Memorial on November 18, 1999 at 2:00 am or so and wait until 2:42 am to meet Timothy's Kerlees family and the other 12's family who decides to be there with us at where the centerpole stood. We go in the thunderstorm too (2 years ago). Honestly, if what all we do is very disrespectful than I am sorry that you think that way and I am glad there are a lot of Aggies out there who do not think the same way. And yes, I know there are Aggies out there who may think the same way as you do.

Do you know exactly what happened with me during the whole accident? No. It is like employees doing something behind their employers back. Those employees will get fired for it. Those guys essentially did. They weren't allowed back at sight, and the leadership was dropped for position. If the incident was to happen at stack sight, the Redpots would have put a stop to it immediately and no one would have been hurt. The whole deal was hardly bonfire related. What happened to me, I ensure you, wasn't a tragedy. The only tragedy was that we lost a great leadership and some redass guys at bonfire. Trust me on this one, all precautions are taken and another tragedy similar to 1999 will not happen under the Student Bonfire's Redpots supervision.

Your argument will probably be, 'Why wasn't the redpots supervising the parking lot.' Well, the real dangers are at stack site and they probably have trusted the Greenpots to not make such poor decisions. Trust me, the Greenpots last year and this coming year know better. The Redpots and Brownpots will do another spectacular job at trying to prevent accidents to happen. They can not promise accidents are going to happen, but you cant have an accident by going to the supermarket.

So what are you trying to state squareone? That we are reckless? That we are disrespectful? That BTHO Bonfire is dangerous? Tell me something I haven't heard before. Tell me that what we are doing out at stack site is reckless, go ahead. Because it is not true. Tell me that we are disrespectful in regards to this great University, do it. Because we are not. Tell me how much of an idiot I am, tell me how disruptive I am, tell me that I am an embarrassment to Student Bonfire and to Texas A&M. Do it. It doesn't matter, because I am not. I am a redass, bonfire building, Aggie loving... loading machine, who is proud to BTHO bonfire the past two years and for years to come.

Thanks and Gig 'Em,
Jonathan 'Sonic' Nguyen '11

ummmm game over? lol yes, i think so.

GO SONIC!

oy...

congrats sonic, of all the people I've had the fortune (And misfortune) of talking with on here, you may be one of the most exhausting.

I'd rather point out the numerous occasions I've seen people getting chewed out because they did something stupid. Being on the receiving end of a red/brown pot's boot up your ass is a memorable thing, my own experience speaking.

I agree that individual actions reflect upon the group as a whole, it is therefore necessary to reduce the happening of such negative activities by the use of preventative measures and punishment. The definitions of "negative activity" and "old-army good bull" are usually situational and always subjective. Thats a circumstance of the environment at A&M. Does that mean they should unilaterally be discouraged? Or should consequences be made known and enforced when something runs afoul? Thats an argument of ideology.

As for the reception Bonfire participants give to critical arguments, I say that its all in context. I can't think of a single conversation I've had on the subject where some area of it didn't come under criticism: with Old Ags who did the real deal back in the day, with former student presidents, with senators, church leaders, parents, new students, and especially with dead chiefs & chairs. The arguments can be discussed at length and without hostility like that because everyone in the conversation knows that you're trying to better the organization, it's understood from a contextual level that your making a case for the continuation of the experience & not outright attacking it's shortcomings. BUT the anonymity granted by nametag-based forum posts does nothing but hamper positive, constructive, arguments from taking place. For an actual debate to go on, trust has to exist that its actually going somewhere, and mutual respect between the arguing parties has to at very least exist. Otherwise its a couple of Chicago-ans screaming over white sox v cubs.

Yah, we're by and large hard-headed, I call it being proud, but you come out with tired half-assed criticism & quick snide remarks and what redass-blinded-by-the-light underclassman won't automatically go into defend and protect mode? Pride is a double edged sword, thats old news. Shakespeare's entire Caesar is about that, heck, half the Bible is about that, Greek tragedy's are about that. But its also the lifeblood of Aggie culture. And for the better part of a century, Bonfire was more than half the heart of Aggie culture, Muster too. Today its spread out in every Tradition and tradition. But the passion that is stirred during those weeks at cut & stack & the night of burn, and the pride that comes from those days spent sweating with your crew...for me at least, and I know some others too, that's what being an Aggie is about. That familial bond. That dedication to codified ethical principles. The insanity of building something for the sheer purpose of burning it down. The satisfaction of a job done right. The knowledge that others will come to carry on those same ideals. Those are things that are imbued into your blood out there. Hence, they can cause people to instinctively defend them when attacked.

What I've tried to say, and done so very poorly with a lot of going off on tangents, is that while I may agree with a lot of your points, the method its been carried out is wrong. You really want some change? Then relax some of the attacks, the attitude, the sarcasm, and the frowny faces and work with the grain. It's all about respect.

And fish sticks.

and walton... fwiw you seem like one of the biggest line toeing bonfire tools I've ever encountered on here as well, congrats on that particular distinction.

damn. the kid posted before me. now two ridiculously long posts just look stupid. oh well... great minds think alike and all that...

fitch

word well spoken fitch

Calling someone in bonfire a tool. I never heard that one before. All I know is the only tool used at bonfire is a few axes and a whole lot of passion. Please, do not call someone a tool for defending his organization. I think a tool would be someone who participated in an organization for a good amount of time, says he has a lot of experience in it, than go out and ridicule a lot of those who participated in it.

you think he's exhausting now... just watch him at load site sometime. craziness

he's a tool, in my opinion, because he seems to be lacking much of an opinion of his own while so vehemently defending the organization while remaining blissfully ignorant to its own shortcomings.

while I'm a tool to you for forming an educated opinion on an organization? Forming an opinion after a couple years of experience is not an adviseable thing to you? You'd prefer we all dive right in, ask no questions, seek no truths, accept, accept accept...right?

Sonic, do you even know what my opinion of bonfire is? Do you know exactly what my hopes are for your beloved organization, and what my relationship is with so many of the people that you say I ridicule? I'm not trying to insult you, because I don't know you, but I do urge you to at least understand what you're arguing against rather than just a differing opinion of something you can see no evil or wrong in.

as obi-wan kenobi once said: only a sith deals an absolute

as Ayn Rand once said: Reality is an absolute, existence is an absolute, a speck of dust is an absolute and so is a human life. Whether you live or die is an absolute. Whether you have a piece of bread or not, is an absolute. Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter’s stomach, is an absolute.

I have to follow Atlas's example... *shrug*