Proposition Joe said:

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Universal's stock price is up 7% YTD.

Disney's is up 10%.

I know this whole "go woke and go broke" saying is fun because it rhymes and stuff... but after Nike's share price absolutely skyrocketed post-Kapernick anyone who continues to parrot it looks like a clueless buffoon.

That doesn't mean you have to support the direction Disney is taking - not opining on that - but you really need to start coming to grips that these companies aren't taking the financial beating you think/hope they are.

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There's a few things wrong with this assessment...

For one, YTD is an arbitrary timeframe. Over the last year, universal is down about 2%. Disney is down about 20%. Over the past 2 years Universal is up about 10%, but Disney is DOWN 40%. Over the last 5, Disney is about even, and Universal is UP about 60%. There are certainly arbitrary periods in there where Disney outperforms universal in stock price through normal variance, but the longer term trends are a little different. That said, stock price is a little disconnected from financial performance because it is only an aggregate estimate of investors' valuation of a company based on current value and expected future performance.

Go take a look at Disney's quarterly net income. It tanked in 2020, understandably, and recovered in 2021, but it still hasn't recovered past 2011/2012 levels. Disney's trailing 13 months of net income at the end of 2019 was $10.4 billion. At the end of 2022 it was $3.3 billion, and that doesn't include the pandemic related losses of 2020 or 2021. Universal has stayed pretty consistent throughout. There's certainly some seasonality to their quarterly profits, but aside from 2017, their trailing 12 months of net income has been very consistent. Disney's downturn doesn't seem to be market related considering Universal seems to be doing fine.

Whether you like it or not, Disney is taking a financial beating.


ETA And Nike's stock post Kapernick is more market related. The SP500 and DJIA were both up significantly over the same time period. More importantly, Nike's net income really didn't change much. Kapernick had no appreciable effect one way or the other on Nike's actual financial performance.

Brittmoore Car Club said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Only in this country (and a few others to be fair) is "far left" not slightly left of center.

And "indoctrination" and "agenda" are talked about far more by one side than they're actually practiced by the other. Most of us sit happily somewhere in the middle

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The modern mainstream democratic party is absolutely far left...to a degree that would have been pretty much unimaginable 5, 10 years ago. The white house and ALL leftist politicians are all in on the hyper woke stuff. Hell, every major corporation is as well. The fringe has become mainstream on the left. I don't see how anyone could deny this.

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I see you edited the "GOP is now the middle part"

And you miss what I'm saying. MOST people simply want equal rights for people and don't buy in to extreme policies, but the extremism of both sides is causing people to choose one side or the other.

You and others also seem to be under a belief that Disney and other companies want to do anything but make money. They've tried a few different things with their last few films and many didn't work, now you'll see them adjust.

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The GOP has absolutely shifted towards the center while the left has gone hard left.

Every conservative I know wants equal rights for people. It's the left's obsession with proselytizing and discussing adult oriented stuff with your children that they have a problem with.

These corporations want to make money, but they also have to push hyper woke BS for ESG scores (google it if you don't know what that is). Plus, they have hired a ton of true believer leftists. Almost every tech company is entirely comprised of hard leftists for example. Entertainment, less so, but they are still the overwhelming majority. I would love to see anyone try to debate this.

And I disagree that you will see them adjust. None of these woke corporations do.

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Lol a quick browse of f16 would seem to disprove this. And even if you truly believe that, your politicians do not.

Either way we're not going to come to any agreement here so I'll leave you to it.

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By the way...in 10-20 years when this country is an unrecognizable cesspool, remember that what destroyed us is that we don't even acknowledge the same basic fundamental realities. The smartest leftists in the country cannot define what a woman is. A SCOTUS judge seriously said that she is not a biologist so she could not answer. And she is not the first of the best and brightest of the left to be able to do so. Whether it's from fear of backlash from the rabid woke left masses, brainwashing, or she's really just a complete dumbass...this type of stuff is a frightening canary in the coal mine. We are increasingly adopting vastly different versions of reality...and it's not the right that is changing in this regard. This is unsustainable and I don't see how it does not end in conflict or a massive painful and chaotic correction of some sorts.

Remember this in 10 or 15 years...but for now just think I am crazy

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Will you be living beyond Thunderdome at that point?

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Hilarious. Just look at downtown area of almost every blue city, compared to 5, 10 years ago for some very light foreshadowing. Addiction, depression, suicide, general misery, crime, homicides trending in the wrong direction and likely off the charts in 5-10 years. Murder and crime in Houston is out of control largely due to woke soft on crime leftist policy...I witnessed a hit job with full auto in broad daylight during rush hour a few weeks ago in River Oaks area of Houston...seeing a dead body laying out in the streets really lightens up the mood at company happy hour.

I was in downtown Los Angeles on business not long ago and it was straight up dystopian. A depressing and scary shell of its former self.

I am not predicting a civil war...this just feels increasingly unsustainable if you follow politics and current events like some of us. If you just watch CNN, Netflix and movies, everything is 100% fine. No bad indicators whatsoever.

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In agreement that certain lax liberal policies are causing a certain amount of deterioration in certain parts of certain big cities. That can't be denied, and it *is* somewhat alarming. It's the way you guys exaggerate and foam at the mouth over this stuff, though, that's equally as absurd. I live in LA, and drive through downtown quite often, and to describe it as "straight up dystopian" is straight up comical, if not utterly inaccurate. I also watch CNN from time to time and they *do* talk about this stuff, especially the San Fran of it all. But you wouldn't know it because you clearly don't watch it/it doesn't fit your "CNN is fake news" narrative.

The reality of the matter is that all of this sh*t is cyclical and we'll eventually and inevitably swing back to a harder-on-crime stance, less "wokeness" in entertainment, etc. The hellscape future so many of you almost seemingly want to come to fruition, just so you can say I told you so and "own the libs," isn't going to happen. Truth is, you're no different than the olds 60 years ago shaking their fists at rock & roll and the civil rights movement.

That, and if *you* were paying attention to the news, you'd know that in 10-15 years A.I. will basically be running everything anyway, and all of this will be moot.

Whos Juan said:

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redline248 said:

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I haven't seen it yet. Would you describe it as a wholesome family movie or not, regardless of anyone knowing the characters or origins?

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Here's a clip. Judge for yourself

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POTD

TCTTS said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Brittmoore Car Club said:

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fig96 said:

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Only in this country (and a few others to be fair) is "far left" not slightly left of center.

And "indoctrination" and "agenda" are talked about far more by one side than they're actually practiced by the other. Most of us sit happily somewhere in the middle

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The modern mainstream democratic party is absolutely far left...to a degree that would have been pretty much unimaginable 5, 10 years ago. The white house and ALL leftist politicians are all in on the hyper woke stuff. Hell, every major corporation is as well. The fringe has become mainstream on the left. I don't see how anyone could deny this.

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I see you edited the "GOP is now the middle part"

And you miss what I'm saying. MOST people simply want equal rights for people and don't buy in to extreme policies, but the extremism of both sides is causing people to choose one side or the other.

You and others also seem to be under a belief that Disney and other companies want to do anything but make money. They've tried a few different things with their last few films and many didn't work, now you'll see them adjust.

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The GOP has absolutely shifted towards the center while the left has gone hard left.

Every conservative I know wants equal rights for people. It's the left's obsession with proselytizing and discussing adult oriented stuff with your children that they have a problem with.

These corporations want to make money, but they also have to push hyper woke BS for ESG scores (google it if you don't know what that is). Plus, they have hired a ton of true believer leftists. Almost every tech company is entirely comprised of hard leftists for example. Entertainment, less so, but they are still the overwhelming majority. I would love to see anyone try to debate this.

And I disagree that you will see them adjust. None of these woke corporations do.

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Lol a quick browse of f16 would seem to disprove this. And even if you truly believe that, your politicians do not.

Either way we're not going to come to any agreement here so I'll leave you to it.

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By the way...in 10-20 years when this country is an unrecognizable cesspool, remember that what destroyed us is that we don't even acknowledge the same basic fundamental realities. The smartest leftists in the country cannot define what a woman is. A SCOTUS judge seriously said that she is not a biologist so she could not answer. And she is not the first of the best and brightest of the left to be able to do so. Whether it's from fear of backlash from the rabid woke left masses, brainwashing, or she's really just a complete dumbass...this type of stuff is a frightening canary in the coal mine. We are increasingly adopting vastly different versions of reality...and it's not the right that is changing in this regard. This is unsustainable and I don't see how it does not end in conflict or a massive painful and chaotic correction of some sorts.

Remember this in 10 or 15 years...but for now just think I am crazy

---

Will you be living beyond Thunderdome at that point?

---

Hilarious. Just look at downtown area of almost every blue city, compared to 5, 10 years ago for some very light foreshadowing. Addiction, depression, suicide, general misery, crime, homicides trending in the wrong direction and likely off the charts in 5-10 years. Murder and crime in Houston is out of control largely due to woke soft on crime leftist policy...I witnessed a hit job with full auto in broad daylight during rush hour a few weeks ago in River Oaks area of Houston...seeing a dead body laying out in the streets really lightens up the mood at company happy hour.

I was in downtown Los Angeles on business not long ago and it was straight up dystopian. A depressing and scary shell of its former self.

I am not predicting a civil war...this just feels increasingly unsustainable if you follow politics and current events like some of us. If you just watch CNN, Netflix and movies, everything is 100% fine. No bad indicators whatsoever.

---

In agreement that certain lax liberal policies are causing a certain amount of deterioration in certain parts of certain big cities. That can't be denied, and it *is* somewhat alarming. It's the way you guys exaggerate and foam at the mouth over this stuff, though, that's as equally as absurd. I live in LA, and drive through downtown quite often, and to describe it as "straight up dystopian" is straight up comical, if not completely inaccurate. I also watch CNN from time to time, and they *do* talk about this, especially the San Fran of it all. But you wouldn't know it because you clearly don't watch it and it doesn't fit your "CNN is fake news" narrative.

The truth of the matter is that all of this sh*t is cyclical and we'll eventually and inevitably swing back to a harder-on-crime stance, less "wokeness" in entertainment, etc.

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Walked to Ralph's at 9th and Flower from my hotel a few blocks away around 9:30pm on a Wednesday and it was pretty freaking scary entering the place...and i've been in some sh** here in Houston. Saw several bums punching building walls, fighting the pavement and just going crazy. On a workday, you'd probably see 10 homeless people, or people just generally up to no good, for every ONE business person. One of the low-key most disturbing things we noticed wasn't really all of the mentally ill and dug fueled homeless...it was the almost complete lack of businesspeople that you would expect to see walking around during lunch hour in a major business center like downtown LA. Several years ago the place was bustling. It's like the lab leaked China virus (just facts) killed it. I am hoping this has miraculously changed in recent months, but it seemed like they broke up skid row and told them to spread out all across downtown, while telling workers to just stay home forever.

As you drove into downtown, every overpass became more and more crowded with homeless people and tents. My uber driver from LAX is the one who told me to watch for that as we went in. He was a cool, normal dude who has spent most if not all of his life in LA and he absolutely hated what it was becoming. He seemed genuinely p*ssed and sad.

Maybe it does depend on where you live. In any event, Houston is now one of the most dangerous places in the world last I checked (worse than LA) thanks largely to our super soft on crime liberal policies in action. Oh well, at least kids can get irreversible mastectomies and puberty blockers and read gay porn in school.

TCTTS said:

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That, and if *you* were paying attention to the news, you'd know that in 10-15 years A.I. will basically be running everything anyway, and all of this will be moot.

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Dude, I try not to even think about that.

bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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Doesn't this just about describe lightyear too? So why the difference? Why wasn't lightyear a slam dunk? Blaming Disney+ is old hat - good movies get seen in theaters.

AGC said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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Doesn't this just about describe lightyear too? So why the difference? Why wasn't lightyear a slam dunk? Blaming Disney+ is old hat - good movies get seen in theaters.

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Look up animated scifi box office and get back to me

Walle seemed to do ok.

AGC said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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Doesn't this just about describe lightyear too? So why the difference? Why wasn't lightyear a slam dunk? Blaming Disney+ is old hat - good movies get seen in theaters.

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Because no matter which side you are on - intentionally over woke, or thinking "go woke go broke" is true - story and character have to come first, and all decisions made in a project have to support story and character. You can be the most inclusive, "woke", diverse thing ever, but if your characters and story sucks, then so will everything else. You can be the least inclusive thing, but if you've got great story and characters you'll have a better chance at success.
Many writers on both sides forget this.

Quad Dog said:

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AGC said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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Doesn't this just about describe lightyear too? So why the difference? Why wasn't lightyear a slam dunk? Blaming Disney+ is old hat - good movies get seen in theaters.

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Because no matter which side you are on - intentionally over woke, or thinking "go woke go broke" is true - story and character have to come first, and all decisions made in a project have to support story and character. You can be the most inclusive, "woke", diverse thing ever, but if your characters and story sucks, then so will everything else. You can be the least inclusive thing, but if you've got great story and characters you'll have a better chance at success.
Many writers on both sides forget this.

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You're not helping. This is Disney. They should have boatloads of storytellers and a deep bench with the truckloads of money they have. I mean people were downplaying the cuts because of the total numbers of workers and popping off about stock price over the last year. Why is Nintendo in a better spot?

fig96 said:

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AGC said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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Doesn't this just about describe lightyear too? So why the difference? Why wasn't lightyear a slam dunk? Blaming Disney+ is old hat - good movies get seen in theaters.

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Look up animated scifi box office and get back to me

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Look up the 90s Super Mario movie and get back to me.

I'm not sure how true that is. I've seen multiple behind the scenes features for things like Frozen 2 and other movies and am surprised at how small the group of actual decision makers is for a given project.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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Whether you like it or not, Disney is taking a financial beating.

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Yep. There is a reason Nelson Peltz started a proxy war with Disney, and essentially got Iger to agree to his demands. Peltz was willing to call out Disney for its massive loss in market capitalization, the loss of the dividend, overpaying for Fox, etc., etc.

Plus, Disney's creative side has struggled in recent years, and it shows in more than just its movies. For example, the company has received a lot of criticism for its "de-theming" redesigns of resorts and restaurants. Even some former Imagineers are publicly critical of the trends at the parks (and in the movies).

Disney will always be a money machine; that's one thing they have down pat. I don't expect them to ever "go broke." But it's a mistake to overlook some of the cracks in the company's foundation.

ETA: You could make the case that Disney's financial success under Iger is primarily the result of acquired IP, which further masks the decline in creativity at Disney itself. Take away Marvel and Star Wars; what is really driving profits at Disney other than Frozen and the parks?

Brittmoore Car Club said:

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As you drove into downtown, every overpass became more and more crowded with homeless people and tents.

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Three years ago, we were accosted several times by homeless people just walking from our hotel to Disneyland. And that's not even LA.

After that, we spent the money to take an Uber even though we were so close by.

Fenrir said:

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Walle seemed to do ok.

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Walle is like the only exception. For some weird reason animated scifi has never done well, it's a strange phenomenon.

https://gizmodo.com/strange-world-disney-animation-sci-fi-movie-bombed-why-1849829111

https://collider.com/strange-world-sci-fi-animated-action-movie-family-audience-failure-explained/

Lilo and stitch and big hero 6 did fine. Light-year did **** because it was a piss poor movie, not because it was scifi.

Quad Dog said:

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I'm not sure how true that is. I've seen multiple behind the scenes features for things like Frozen 2 and other movies and am surprised at how small the group of actual decision makers is for a given project.

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No offense but so what? Nintendo shouldn't be able to compete with Disney in the film industry and story telling business. It's what their company is about.

There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

AGC said:

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Quad Dog said:

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I'm not sure how true that is. I've seen multiple behind the scenes features for things like Frozen 2 and other movies and am surprised at how small the group of actual decision makers is for a given project.

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No offense but so what? Nintendo shouldn't be able to compete with Disney in the film industry and story telling business. It's what their company is about.

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Nintendo was involved in producing and higher level decisions, but they didn't write or direct or animate this movie.

fig96 said:

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There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

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These are the same tired excuses trotted out all the time. Disney has a theme park to sell and merchandise. And they can't connect with families to beat Mario? Who asked for the Mario movie?

AGC said:

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fig96 said:

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There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

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These are the same tired excuses trotted out all the time. Disney has a theme park to sell and merchandise. And they can't connect with families to beat Mario? Who asked for the Mario movie?

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You're putting a whole lot of words into my mouth. I personally find it fascinating that animated scifi doesn't do well, especially as I love Treasure Planet and Atlantis.

I don't think Disney's movies the last few years have been especially good and Illumination has some talented people, this isn't an either or situation.

fig96 said:

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There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

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Most sci-fi animated films aren't linked to massive, multibillion dollar franchises. All things considered, Lightyear could and should have been a home run. I was excited for it and wanted to see it until Disney gave it diversity armor and the reviews started coming out. Then I decided to just wait for it on D+ and was very underwhelmed. Overall, it felt like they mailed it in and decided to see what they could get away with under the assumption the Toy Story IP couldn't fail. Either way, it had a lot going for it on the same way Mario did. To say Mario succeeded because of the IP while ignoring the failure of Lightyear or downplaying it because of its genre is a little disingenuous.

ETA Not saying you are, but the post that started this whole digression did.

fig96 said:

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AGC said:

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fig96 said:

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There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

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These are the same tired excuses trotted out all the time. Disney has a theme park to sell and merchandise. And they can't connect with families to beat Mario? Who asked for the Mario movie?

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You're putting a whole lot of words into my mouth. I personally find it fascinating that animated scifi doesn't do well, especially as I love Treasure Planet and Atlantis.

I don't think Disney's movies the last few years have been especially good and Illumination has some talented people, this isn't an either or situation.

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Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I'll stop quoting you.

bluefire579 said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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False. It's doing as well as it is because they chose to make it have broad appeal and not try to push any envelopes, and it's great. Disney has missed a lot of open layups, hence layoffs.

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Exactly. But, again, you can't convince them. What you will do is make logical claims based on facts. First, they will say you are wrong and a simpleton, going for personal attacks instead of debating facts. Next, they will pull up different data instead of refuting your data, and again make personal attacks. Their last argument will be to say that Disney isn't going out of business but is making money, therefore your argument is invalid... and then they will make personal attacks.

This is all standard playbook stuff.

Pay no attention to the layoffs. Companies perform massive layoffs all the time because everything is going so perfectly.

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What facts? There are literally no facts in his posts, and the post he's responding to has no personal attacks. I pointed out strength of brand and just got a generic response.

This is what I meant by your lack of self awareness. You commented on the last page, making no attempt to support anything with facts, but basically **** on a group of people. You're 100% projecting because you're doing exactly what you're describing here. There are no facts, no data, just whatever your feelings on the matter are, completely ignoring any other possible factors because wokeness is obviously the problem and the only problem.

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Fact: Disney is laying off around 7,000 employees.
Fact: Disney has released multiple "kids" movies that have estimated loss of over $100M, each (Strange World and Lightyear)

There are two facts for you. I'll be sure to point out all the other ones that come up, as we go through the year. I could point to the appalling numbers for phase 4 of the MCU, as well.

But go ahead. You seem to lack awareness about how forums work. I was LITERALLY responding to the OP. You know? The OP with "facts". When I refer to these facts, you then claim I have not posted any facts? You have a problem. I don't know why it makes you so mad that I'm calling out your cult. Own it and move on.

AGC said:

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fig96 said:

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AGC said:

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fig96 said:

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There's a variety of reasons Lightyear failed, including it being a film that no one asked for. That doesn't change the fact that historically animated scifi films bomb far more often than not at the box office (article talks about the films you mention as well if you're curious).

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These are the same tired excuses trotted out all the time. Disney has a theme park to sell and merchandise. And they can't connect with families to beat Mario? Who asked for the Mario movie?

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You're putting a whole lot of words into my mouth. I personally find it fascinating that animated scifi doesn't do well, especially as I love Treasure Planet and Atlantis.

I don't think Disney's movies the last few years have been especially good and Illumination has some talented people, this isn't an either or situation.

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Sorry for putting words in your mouth. I'll stop quoting you.

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I'm not making an excuse for anything, nor do I actually ever hear anyone talking about how animated scifi doesn't do well here except for me

I haven't seen Lightyear so I have no idea if it was good or not, though I really thought it was an odd choice and I don't understand who the target audience was. Toy Story 5 would've killed it, this movie not so much.

The Mario franchise also has 4 of the top 20 selling games of all time and 2 of the top 10, this is not some unknown IP that came out of nowhere.

DallasTeleAg said:

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bluefire579 said:

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DallasTeleAg said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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bluefire579 said:

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Teacher_Ag said:

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How does it being from a video game universe and being old conflict with it being a wholesome adventure? That makes zero sense. It was a near-perfectly executed family animated blockbuster. Another studio, Disney for example, could have easily botched it by trying too hard to impress the wrong people. That's what they're willing to do now.

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It's a built in IP that's been around for 40 years, overseen by a company that famously has extensive quality control over its well-established, family friendly IPs. Making an actual Mario movie with Nintendo's heavy involvement was always going to be a slam dunk.

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False. It's doing as well as it is because they chose to make it have broad appeal and not try to push any envelopes, and it's great. Disney has missed a lot of open layups, hence layoffs.

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Exactly. But, again, you can't convince them. What you will do is make logical claims based on facts. First, they will say you are wrong and a simpleton, going for personal attacks instead of debating facts. Next, they will pull up different data instead of refuting your data, and again make personal attacks. Their last argument will be to say that Disney isn't going out of business but is making money, therefore your argument is invalid... and then they will make personal attacks.

This is all standard playbook stuff.

Pay no attention to the layoffs. Companies perform massive layoffs all the time because everything is going so perfectly.

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What facts? There are literally no facts in his posts, and the post he's responding to has no personal attacks. I pointed out strength of brand and just got a generic response.

This is what I meant by your lack of self awareness. You commented on the last page, making no attempt to support anything with facts, but basically **** on a group of people. You're 100% projecting because you're doing exactly what you're describing here. There are no facts, no data, just whatever your feelings on the matter are, completely ignoring any other possible factors because wokeness is obviously the problem and the only problem.

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Fact: Disney is laying off around 7,000 employees.
Fact: Disney has released multiple "kids" movies that have estimated loss of over $100M, each (Strange World and Lightyear)

There are two facts for you. I'll be sure to point out all the other ones that come up, as we go through the year. I could point to the appalling numbers for phase 4 of the MCU, as well.

But go ahead. You seem to lack awareness about how forums work. I was LITERALLY responding to the OP. You know? The OP with "facts". When I refer to these facts, you then claim I have not posted any facts? You have a problem. I don't know why it makes you so mad that I'm calling out your cult. Own it and move on.

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These are just some of "the appalling numbers for phase 4 of the MCU"...

$1.9B = Spider-Man: No Way Home
$955M = Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness
$859M = Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
$760M = Thor: Love and Thunder
$432M = Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings

And a couple of those were even during the pandemic.

Whatever false narrative backs your ideology, though.

Fair points, see my last post.

Look, no one is denying that Disney's overall quality has dipped. It absolutely has. What we're pushing back on is the dumbass "go woke go broke" narrative you and others are so desperate to push. In other words, a two-second lesbian kiss in Lightyear isn't the reason that movie did poorly at the box office, nor does it have anything to do with why 7000 people are being laid off.

TCTTS said:

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Look, no one is denying that Disney's overall quality has dipped. It absolutely has. What we're pushing back on is the dumbass "go woke go broke" narrative you and others are so desperate to push. In other words, a two-second lesbian kiss in Lightyear isn't the reason that movie did poorly at the box office, nor does it have anything to do with why 7000 people are being laid off.

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I do think eventually we are going to get to a point where "go woke go broke" is an actual thing from the right, if the left keeps pushing...especially if we enter a tough recession. people are seeing the videos online and waking up to all of the grooming sh**. Don't forget, Disney is PRO-GROOMING...there is no way to deny that. They literally threw a giant hissy fit because lawmakers in Florida don't want teachers etc. talking to 2nd and 3rd graders about adult topics like sex and gender. The left completely lost their minds over this...Disney included. Then they lied and came up with the dishonest "don't say gay" nonsense. The left are MASTERS of this type of propaganda. And their avg joe foot soldiers run with it.

The truth is, the left is far better at organizing, boycotting and cancelling people/groups...it helps that they have virtually every govt, corporate, and entertainment institution on their side...but you still cannot deny their grassroots ability. They are also much better at violence and destruction and getting their way via those methods.

The right had better start taking notes or not a damn thing will ever change.

TCTTS said:

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Look, no one is denying that Disney's overall quality has dipped. It absolutely has. What we're pushing back on is the dumbass "go woke go broke" narrative you and others are so desperate to push. In other words, a two-second lesbian kiss in Lightyear isn't the reason that movie did poorly at the box office, nor does it have anything to do with why 7000 people are being laid off.

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Genuinely curious as to how you KNOW this. I remember the fuss being raised before and immediately after the movie dropped. There are tens of millions of people who just don't want to show that to their kids. They'd rather have that discussion when they're a little older. The left is adamant about striking while they are young...from all angles.

TCTTS said:

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Solid rebuttal?

What do you expect? You made a sensible point... and there is no response other than, "you could be right." However, cultists can't ever go against the cult.

Brittmoore Car Club said:

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TCTTS said:

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Look, no one is denying that Disney's overall quality has dipped. It absolutely has. What we're pushing back on is the dumbass "go woke go broke" narrative you and others are so desperate to push. In other words, a two-second lesbian kiss in Lightyear isn't the reason that movie did poorly at the box office, nor does it have anything to do with why 7000 people are being laid off.

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Genuinely curious as to how you KNOW this. I remember the fuss being raised before and immediately after the movie dropped. There are tens of millions of people who just don't want to show that to their kids. They'd rather have that discussion when they're a little older. The left is adamant about striking while they are young...from all angles.

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Every man in the French town was super gay for Gaston, and that movie did huge numbers. Beauty & the Beast was a great movie, lightyear was boring and halfway through my kid turned it off. I think that's the difference.